How many Mint State grades are there?
Coinstartled
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Is it eleven? (60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69,70
Or is it twenty? (60, 60+, 61, 61+, 62, 62+, 63, 63+, 64, 64+, 65, 65+, 66, 66+, 67, 67+, 68, 68+, 69, 70.
Or is it thirty three? 60 A-B-C, 61 A-B-C, 62 A-B-C, 63 A-B-C, 64 A-B-C, 65 A-B-C, 66 A-B-C, 67 A-B-C, 68 A-B-C, 69 A-B-C 70 A-B-C.
Serious question as I am not sure I know.
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Comments
Actually, it's complicated. The answer is NONE OF THE ABOVE and possibly INCALCULABLE.
There are 20 used by the grading services. But, of course, CAC has two grades A/B (they don't distinguish) and C. But CAC also doesn't recognize the +.
So, while a 60 could be 60 A/B or 60 C, it could also be 60+ which may or may not be the same as 60+.
On top of that, you have a green CAC and a gold CAC. A green CAC is clearly A/B. A gold CAC is supposedly A/B at next highest grade, at least. But, of course, if you have a 63 gold CAC, it could be a 64 green CAC or a 65 no CAC.
It's best not to try and count them. LOL.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
It's eleven. (IMO)
+, *, A,B,C and PQ and Green or Gold beans (etc) designations are used by some grading services to further delineate the coins grade (and make more money). Most coin dealers want a premium for +, *, PQ and any bean designations when they are selling. Not so much when they are buying.
IMO, this is one of the better arguments that comes up from time to time to move to a 100 point grading system.
I'm in the 11 crowd. I can't be bothered with splitting hairs.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Yikes...I forgot the NGC star.
I sort of agree, MS, but this 1903-O Morgan in MS67+ and a green cac sticker is the top of population (3) amd sold for about ten times the price of an MS67 coin.
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/723502/1903-O-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS-67-CAC
Can we consider it to be the same grade of a straight MS67?
Some series have CAM's and DCAM's. Also PL.
Lance.
Why not? Is there a rule that says all coins of comparable grades must be priced the same?
Nothing like an asterix/star to confuse things a little more.
Blame Sheldon, Not me.
There's 5 grades for uncirculated coins, the only 5 grades anyone who collects and or deals in mint state numismatic coins needs:
Strictly Unc
Select Unc
Choice Unc
Gem Unc
Superb Gem Unc
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be.---Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the United States of America, 1801-1809. Jefferson was the primary author of the Declaration of Independence.
Actually, it's a better argument for NOT going to 100 point system. We're already on one.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
39 grades?
Here's a list below. I've never seen a 70 CAC but I have seen a 69 CAC. Is there a 70 CAC out there? Also, while CAC may not recognize the combination of + and CAC I'm assuming that the new Registry Set will so here they are"
Didn't Sheldon use just 60, 65 and 70 for mint state grades? If you're going by him, the answer to your question is "3".
But are designations really part of the grade? I would argue no. The grade refers to the level of preservation only.
The CAC isn't really part of the grade. It is just another verification or opinion of the grade on the label. On the other hand, I certainly agree that there may be 39 or more price levels or tiers.
You are moving the discussion, Mason.
The original Sheldon 70 point scale was a linear reflection of valuation. A "30" graded coin of the same date and MM would in theory be valued at half of a "60 coin." So yes both coins of a given grade should be of similar value. Of course that idea disappeared as quickly as a bowl of jumbo peeled shrimp at a $9.99 casino buffet.
Well, with Market Grading used by all the major TPGs, grades and price levels / tiers are the same thing....
And I'm guessing it will be part of the new Registry Sets. It will be interesting to see how the points are determined.
But as a prooflike Morgan for example circulated (lower state of preservation", the PL feature would be lost.
You brought Sheldon up. If you don't want to deal with his part in the grading system under discussion, perhaps you shouldn't have done that, you think?
The twenty system works fine for me...
And?
How does one differentiate between those terms, since every dealer rates selling Gem or better but buying barely UNC.
I would take a numeric over a vague whatever term anyday, even with it's imperfections.
Like Shrimp, 2 siZes are small, and 8 are large
Or Olives
Bullets
Fine
Brilliant
Superior
Large
Extra Large
Jumbo
Extra Jumbo
Giants
Colossal
Super Colossal
Mammoth
Super Mammoth
I long for the days when we had 60, 63, 65, 67, and 70 for mint state grades.
I just do not care....I judge each coin, not the label. One of the benefits of being a collector and not a seller. Cheers, RickO
The answer is simple:
As many grades as needed to make the most money.
Looks to be about 240 grades but perhaps we should add the PQ and blast white grades to the mix?
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
There's 5 grades for uncirculated coins, the only 5 grades anyone who collects and or deals in mint state numismatic coins needs: Strictly Unc, Select Unc, Choice Unc, Gem Unc, Superb Gem Unc
Let the price be THE number. Too much dependence on grade "numbers" going on, in my opinion. It seems that just about anyone who has learned to grade using the 5 level system seen above can agree with others on an uncirculated coin's actual state of preservation.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be.---Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the United States of America, 1801-1809. Jefferson was the primary author of the Declaration of Independence.
How about FH, FS, FSB, FBL, DMPL, PL, RD, RB, and BN designations? Probably I forgot some. I suppose if I had a mintue, I could do the math, there are probably several thousand possible iterations if you include the green/gold stickers to what can appear on the PCGS insert.
It's madness, really. The pot has boiled-over at this point.
Actually, it's a better argument for NOT going to 100 point system. We're already on one.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
This is very nice and old school, but it ignores market realities. Feel free to grade any coin you want any way you want. Feel free to pay whatever you want for any coin you want. But don't expect anyone else to agree with your grade or price.
Just because you don't think a 65CAC should cost more than a 65 no CAC is irrelevant. The 65 CAC will sell for more than the 65 no CAC 99% of the time. One should know this when either buying or selling.
For some coins, the difference between a 65 and 66 is huge. Calling them both Gem UNC is not helpful in assessing the value.
How do you find price comps when the rest of the world uses the numerical grades and no one uses your 5 tier system?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
We do need an MS71 grade as many common Eagles and modern commemems no longer carry a significant premium at the 70 level.
Maybe the mint director can sign off on a small batch of coins that were made from never previously refined precious metals.
Totally agree!!!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
12, 13 if Kindergarten is included.
1-6 Elementary; 7-8 Jr High; and 9-12 High (many variants, too)
Oops, right answer to wrong question.
Happy Cyber Day/Week!
For starters, there is ONLY ONE MS grade: MINE.
I'm sure other members feel the same about their personal opinion.
As for your Post, I think you answered your own question if stars and pluses are the same. I would drop CAC completely as they are NOT a grading service. They confirm a given grade. Otherwise, if you wish to include CAC there are only two grades in each number - A,B and C.
Eleven but three of those grades suck.
Such a simple question with so many answers...
I would have said 11, and I recall when one of those (MS70) was essentially unobtainable.
And I recall when we had rotary telephones and we had to manually crank the car windows up and down.
Ahhh - the good old days when grading was simpler, but of course you had to be on the lookout for sellers who embellished the grade. And don't even mention "sliders".
I'm glad to see this thread. Complication is good. Reminds me of when I was stuck in stamps and figgerin out all the coil varieties of the 1922's
http://www.stampsmarter.com/1847usa/1922/599-599A.jpg
Some choose to collect coins and there are those that collect something well short of art, history and design by placing a greater value and concern about trying to quantify and measure something that has a significant subjective component. Are collectors that far out of touch as to what really matters? I suppose the concept of allowing a coin to speak as to what it truly is has been drowned to the point of near silence based on external factors spoon feeding the soup de jour to those that seem unwilling to recognize what matters. Sad... But that is the way it has unfolded.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I don't know the answer, but I do not agree with blaming Sheldon.
Partly agree, but largely disagree.
This is nothing new. The names have changed but there has always been a "grade" with a corresponding "price". This does not change the fact that people pay what they think it is worth TO THEM. Not all 65s sell for the same price. Putting a number on it, like authenticating artwork and describing the condition of artwork, provides guidance.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Unfortunately you have missed my point. It is not about money inasmuch as it is about something that separates a coin captured in time for what it is and should be instead of a coin that simply fails. Collectors need to place a greater value on their own ability to recognize what is important over what is technically temporary and may be different than what that grade may be on a holder. Coins really do not change unless they have been enhanced. Opinions as to certain coins do changes overtime. And this is not about grade inflation-it is about the subjective nature of grading.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
And when we had rotary cars and had to manually crank the telephone.
Lance.
Crank telephones... Cranky collectors... Close enough.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
ill take 11 as well, the rest of it is a gimme
Commercial MS60.
Select (Brilliant) MS63.
Gem MS65.
Superb MS67.
Anything else is just vanity.
That one is naked-eye-EASY!
I think we'll see a MS70+ first, but that would be quite a logical contradiction. I guess a 70 has no flaws under 5x magnification whereas a 70+ has no flaws under 10x or higher magnification.
Would a MS70+ be equivalent to a MS70 with a gold CAC sticker?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If I were CAC I would start accepting moderns with a very high submission fee of $30-$40 per coin and tie my bid price to spot.