@Insider2 said:
"So the last show cost me about 6 hours of my time, $5 entry fee, ~$20 for lunch (w/o mustard stains ), over $50 in gas and $0 on coins."
But did you have fun?
No, not really. I did enjoy reconnecting with some old friends and updating my "want list" but the show was worthless.
If you drive a fun car, just going to the show is an excuse to take it out.
For me if a coin dealer leaves early or stays the whole show it will make no difference. Just like I can't come during the weekday and they can't make me do so because of work, I can't keep them at the show if it is not worth their while.
I do local and regional shows 2-3 times/month all year round and I have fun whether I find something or not. Would I like to find something every show? Sure I would, but if that happened I would not have enough money to buy the clean and higher grade coins that I am looking for. So the time in between not finding the coins I like gives me time to save up for the nice coins I want.
I for one would like to thank all the dealers that make the effort to do these shows and stay as long as they can. Unlike other people I can't buy my coins on-line. I have 18 coins in my US Type collection and have purchased exactly 1 coin on-line. I am not good enough to judge the coin photos or sometimes coin photos are not good enough for me to judge what the coin will look like in hand.
So thanks, to all the dealers that set up at these shows. I appreciate you all (well most of you anyways).
Great Point! I used to do 45-50 shows a year. Now I think I'm down to a dozen. I don't count my local monthly show(which is 1 in 3 worth attending). All these coin clubs seem to think bigger is better. There's only so much butter to spread on that bread!
@MasonG said:
That show cost many of those dealers a couple of days of their time, ~$200 table fee, ~$20 each day for lunch (w/ or w/o mustard stains ) and over $50 in gas.
Just sayin'.
I agree. But they are in the business and their expenses should be recoverable or they won't be in the business very long. Just like me, if they can't get anything out of these little shows, they'll quit going too.
If a fair number of dealers could leave early, they might not come at all. The guys who go home are often those who don’t want to deal with the public, or, at most the WELL HEALED public.
Most of the big guys with the big Internet presences were pulling up stakes by Friday afternoon at the recent Baltimore show.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I can give a great example of this. I was attending what used to be the Macon coin club show which had just moved to Perry,Ga. It used to be one of my better shows! They increased the amount of dealers by 50% while the amount of attendees went down. Saturday afternoon it was slow. I got out my camera, started listing on ebay and sold more in 4 hours than I did the whole weekend!
@CCGGG said:
But they are in the business and their expenses should be recoverable or they won't be in the business very long.
Of course, as you noted, expenses need to be accounted for. That doesn't change the fact that the items listed are expenses that don't have to be paid for if the dealer doesn't attend the show and sells through other venues instead. When dealers do choose to take tables, many decide not to stay until the end of a show because they have determined that doing so will cost them more than leaving early does. There are only so many hours in a day, and spending them on non-productive efforts when a better option is available doesn't help keep one in business.
Dealers need to buy and sell coins in order to put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads. They are going to do whatever it is that best allows them to make those purchases and sales. Ignoring this reality while trying to solve the problem of early departures will lead to unproductive results.
Any major show that forced dealers to stay an extra day or two would start losing table sales. Or the dealers would show up anyway but not take a table.
A number of dealers come to Baltimore but don’t buy a table. They send me emails before the show offering to get together or to bring something special. More would be doing that if they were forced to stay for the duration of the show.
The people who complain the most about dealers leaving often fail realize that much of what those dealers have is beyond their budgets.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I have less opportunity to attend at this time, but know that one has to hit the multi-day regional and national coin shows on a weekday, arriving in the morning before noon.
@Insider2 said:
"So the last show cost me about 6 hours of my time, $5 entry fee, ~$20 for lunch (w/o mustard stains ), over $50 in gas and $0 on coins."
But did you have fun?
No, not really. I did enjoy reconnecting with some old friends and updating my "want list" but the show was worthless.
If you drive a fun car, just going to the show is an excuse to take it out.
Clearly someone has been reading and remembering some of my past posts... Yes, driving a 700+ hp supercar to a coin show can even make a bad coin show a lot of fun...
Those thar are interested and buy come early. Our local shows have gone from Thursday night setup to Sunday 5:00 PM have moved to Friday 8:00 AM setup and Saturday 5 or 6:00 PM close and it works great. I miss having a day I wasn't unpacking or packing, but the time is fully used. We have these 3 or 4 times a year and turn dealers away.
When I go to a big show, it's almost always on a Friday. I make a day out of it. I don't like going on the very first day and, then Saturdays are usually too late, so Fridays work very well for me and that is my rationale.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
One of the shows that I set up at requires dealers to stay until 2pm on the last day if they want to be entered in to the raffle for a free table for the next years show. Granted this is just a Saturday and Sunday show, but it usually keeps the dealers there until 1 hour before the show closes.
At these large shows sometimes dealers leave early because they did all of their business within the first couple days of the show selling mainly wholesale to other dealers. To all the others that leave way early, maybe they have their own excuses for doing so. Until things can get worked out between the show operators, dealers, and collectors there will always be this problem of dealers complaining about public showing up and public complaining about shows being half empty on the last one or two days of the show.
Now for the most important thing that I can say, listen up!!!!
The one thing though that I will always push for is for collectors to come to shows to see coins in person whether they buy anything or not. Hands on experience is invaluable even if you find nothing to buy at a show. The more coins you can see in person the better off you will be. People can complain that they wasted their time and money by going to a show and not finding anything to buy, I think that going to a show affords you better opportunity to learn about coins than on your computer at home looking at pics, that can be manipulated to show the best side of the coin. I understand that online buying and learning has its benefits of convenience, but may are forgetting that coming to a show is an important part of learning too. The more people that come to a show is relative to dealers staying at the shows longer.
At the Baltimore shows. most dealers leave by early Saturday afternoon and Sunday is a ghost town. Why don't the show promoters have a "bargain table Sunday" where tables can be rented for $50 instead of $600 or more? There are a lot of smaller local dealers who can't afford the exorbitant table fees and collectors who want to thin out their collection who would take advantage of this. Also some of the larger dealers may stick around to cherry pick these small dealers and collectors who set up on bargain table Sunday.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
At the Baltimore shows. most dealers leave by early Saturday afternoon and Sunday is a ghost town. Why don't the show promoters have a "bargain table Sunday" where tables can be rented for $50 instead of $600 or more? There are a lot of smaller local dealers who can't afford the exorbitant table fees and collectors who want to thin out their collection who would take advantage of this. Also some of the larger dealers may stick around to cherry pick these small dealers and collectors who set up on bargain table Sunday.
@PerryHall said:
At the Baltimore shows. most dealers leave by early Saturday afternoon and Sunday is a ghost town. Why don't the show promoters have a "bargain table Sunday" where tables can be rented for $50 instead of $600 or more? There are a lot of smaller local dealers who can't afford the exorbitant table fees and collectors who want to thin out their collection who would take advantage of this. Also some of the larger dealers may stick around to cherry pick these small dealers and collectors who set up on bargain table Sunday.
@ms70 said:
I say give other vendors who were not registered for the show the empty tables for free until the end of the event on the condition they stay to the dying end. First come first serve.
This would be a big plus to keeping the show open, plus might generate new dealer/customer interest.
Autism Awareness: There is no limit to the good you can do, if you don't care who gets the credit.
@ms70 said:
I say give other vendors who were not registered for the show the empty tables for free until the end of the event on the condition they stay to the dying end. First come first serve.
@WaterSport said:
Trust me, if dealers knew that every person walking in the show was going to BUY something, they would stay.
WS
I believe that the bar for staying is a wee bit lower than that
Dealers weigh the value of reasonably expected business as a result of staying at the show, against the opportunity cost of reasonably expected business and leisure time, back home.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Dealers don't stay on the last day because they know collectors won't show up. Of course, the collectors won't show up because they know the dealers won't be there. Sounds like a vicious cycle to be.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I have found the serious buyers find a way to get to a show way before closing. They know fantastic deals do t wait forever.
A wholesaler set up next to me does a booming business items below bid. By the end of the show his material looks picked over with mostly just the lower end material left. I make it a point look at his stuff as early in show as possible buying fresh material markup for show and online store. Early bird gets the worm in this smash mouth ball market. Besides I am paying a $200 table fee want get everything I can out of the show.
A sharp young vest pocket trader who I think is the son of a major dealer (6th grader) is one of first over there and does deals with that guy and others set up all day. One was $8000. You mean to tell me your going to let a 6th grader best you on the bourse bc your late to the show and then whine about it trashing dealers lol? No sympathy for you, your getting pancaked on your rear end.
@Cougar1978 said:
I have found the serious buyers find a way to get to a show way before closing.
A wholesaler set up next to me does a booming business. By the end of the show his material looks picked over with mostly just the low end trash left. I make it a point look at his stuff as early in show as possible. Early bird gets the worm.
On the second day of the show a few dealers that I know will let me check out their newps before they put them on their web site and give me a good price. I love getting first shot on new inventory from my favorite dealers.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Poor discipline in my H O ........... like playing hooky at school .... oh so many times I wished I could ditch the German language class in high school
@MasonG said:
That show cost many of those dealers a couple of days of their time, ~$200 table fee, ~$20 each day for lunch (w/ or w/o mustard stains ) and over $50 in gas.
Just sayin'.
I agree. But they are in the business and their expenses should be recoverable or they won't be in the business very long. Just like me, if they can't get anything out of these little shows, they'll quit going too.
But they aren't recoverable just from staying. And if they are paying helpers, the cost of staying an extra day at the show may exceed the benefit even if they consider their own time to be "free".
Comments
If I had a table at a show I'd put up a banner that says, "Here to the End!"
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
If you drive a fun car, just going to the show is an excuse to take it out.
For me if a coin dealer leaves early or stays the whole show it will make no difference. Just like I can't come during the weekday and they can't make me do so because of work, I can't keep them at the show if it is not worth their while.
I do local and regional shows 2-3 times/month all year round and I have fun whether I find something or not. Would I like to find something every show? Sure I would, but if that happened I would not have enough money to buy the clean and higher grade coins that I am looking for. So the time in between not finding the coins I like gives me time to save up for the nice coins I want.
I for one would like to thank all the dealers that make the effort to do these shows and stay as long as they can. Unlike other people I can't buy my coins on-line. I have 18 coins in my US Type collection and have purchased exactly 1 coin on-line. I am not good enough to judge the coin photos or sometimes coin photos are not good enough for me to judge what the coin will look like in hand.
So thanks, to all the dealers that set up at these shows. I appreciate you all (well most of you anyways).
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
Hence why you typically have a bunch of mustard stained blue hairs running around 2 days of a 4 day show.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Great Point! I used to do 45-50 shows a year. Now I think I'm down to a dozen. I don't count my local monthly show(which is 1 in 3 worth attending). All these coin clubs seem to think bigger is better. There's only so much butter to spread on that bread!
If a fair number of dealers could leave early, they might not come at all. The guys who go home are often those who don’t want to deal with the public, or, at most the WELL HEALED public.
Most of the big guys with the big Internet presences were pulling up stakes by Friday afternoon at the recent Baltimore show.
I can give a great example of this. I was attending what used to be the Macon coin club show which had just moved to Perry,Ga. It used to be one of my better shows! They increased the amount of dealers by 50% while the amount of attendees went down. Saturday afternoon it was slow. I got out my camera, started listing on ebay and sold more in 4 hours than I did the whole weekend!
Dealers need to buy and sell coins in order to put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads. They are going to do whatever it is that best allows them to make those purchases and sales. Ignoring this reality while trying to solve the problem of early departures will lead to unproductive results.
Any major show that forced dealers to stay an extra day or two would start losing table sales. Or the dealers would show up anyway but not take a table.
A number of dealers come to Baltimore but don’t buy a table. They send me emails before the show offering to get together or to bring something special. More would be doing that if they were forced to stay for the duration of the show.
The people who complain the most about dealers leaving often fail realize that much of what those dealers have is beyond their budgets.
@Coinosaurus @BillJones Two sensible, excellent posts.
I have less opportunity to attend at this time, but know that one has to hit the multi-day regional and national coin shows on a weekday, arriving in the morning before noon.
It's always been that way.
Clearly someone has been reading and remembering some of my past posts...
Yes, driving a 700+ hp supercar to a coin show can even make a bad coin show a lot of fun...
Those thar are interested and buy come early. Our local shows have gone from Thursday night setup to Sunday 5:00 PM have moved to Friday 8:00 AM setup and Saturday 5 or 6:00 PM close and it works great. I miss having a day I wasn't unpacking or packing, but the time is fully used. We have these 3 or 4 times a year and turn dealers away.
When I go to a big show, it's almost always on a Friday. I make a day out of it. I don't like going on the very first day and, then Saturdays are usually too late, so Fridays work very well for me and that is my rationale.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
One of the shows that I set up at requires dealers to stay until 2pm on the last day if they want to be entered in to the raffle for a free table for the next years show. Granted this is just a Saturday and Sunday show, but it usually keeps the dealers there until 1 hour before the show closes.
At these large shows sometimes dealers leave early because they did all of their business within the first couple days of the show selling mainly wholesale to other dealers. To all the others that leave way early, maybe they have their own excuses for doing so. Until things can get worked out between the show operators, dealers, and collectors there will always be this problem of dealers complaining about public showing up and public complaining about shows being half empty on the last one or two days of the show.
Now for the most important thing that I can say, listen up!!!!
The one thing though that I will always push for is for collectors to come to shows to see coins in person whether they buy anything or not. Hands on experience is invaluable even if you find nothing to buy at a show. The more coins you can see in person the better off you will be. People can complain that they wasted their time and money by going to a show and not finding anything to buy, I think that going to a show affords you better opportunity to learn about coins than on your computer at home looking at pics, that can be manipulated to show the best side of the coin. I understand that online buying and learning has its benefits of convenience, but may are forgetting that coming to a show is an important part of learning too. The more people that come to a show is relative to dealers staying at the shows longer.
At the Baltimore shows. most dealers leave by early Saturday afternoon and Sunday is a ghost town. Why don't the show promoters have a "bargain table Sunday" where tables can be rented for $50 instead of $600 or more? There are a lot of smaller local dealers who can't afford the exorbitant table fees and collectors who want to thin out their collection who would take advantage of this. Also some of the larger dealers may stick around to cherry pick these small dealers and collectors who set up on bargain table Sunday.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Sunday is no more at Baltimore.
Donnybrook
This would be a big plus to keeping the show open, plus might generate new dealer/customer interest.
That’s a good idea.
Trust me, if dealers knew that every person walking in the show was going to BUY something, they would stay.
WS
I believe that the bar for staying is a wee bit lower than that
Dealers weigh the value of reasonably expected business as a result of staying at the show, against the opportunity cost of reasonably expected business and leisure time, back home.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Dealers don't stay on the last day because they know collectors won't show up. Of course, the collectors won't show up because they know the dealers won't be there. Sounds like a vicious cycle to be.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I have found the serious buyers find a way to get to a show way before closing. They know fantastic deals do t wait forever.
A wholesaler set up next to me does a booming business items below bid. By the end of the show his material looks picked over with mostly just the lower end material left. I make it a point look at his stuff as early in show as possible buying fresh material markup for show and online store. Early bird gets the worm in this smash mouth ball market. Besides I am paying a $200 table fee want get everything I can out of the show.
A sharp young vest pocket trader who I think is the son of a major dealer (6th grader) is one of first over there and does deals with that guy and others set up all day. One was $8000. You mean to tell me your going to let a 6th grader best you on the bourse bc your late to the show and then whine about it trashing dealers lol? No sympathy for you, your getting pancaked on your rear end.
THIS THIS THIS THIS !
On the second day of the show a few dealers that I know will let me check out their newps before they put them on their web site and give me a good price. I love getting first shot on new inventory from my favorite dealers.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Poor discipline in my H O ........... like playing hooky at school
.... oh so many times I wished I could ditch the German language class in high school 
But they aren't recoverable just from staying. And if they are paying helpers, the cost of staying an extra day at the show may exceed the benefit even if they consider their own time to be "free".