Should the United States Mint create Contrived Rarities?

Texast · November 14, 2019 4:12PM

After one of the biggest debacles in years ordinary Collectors were blocked from purchasing a Contrived Rarity, The 2019 -S Enhanced Reverse Proof Silver Eagle that went on sale 11/14/2019 for less than 12 minutes, if you could get ever get through.
The question, Should the U.S. Mint be involved in creating a Contrived Rarity, for which the average coin Collector has little chance of obtaining without paying Huge Markups in the secondary market, or produce a supply equal to the anticipated demand.
This is an Anonymous Poll, you can vote without worrying about being attacked for your views.

Kliao · November 14, 2019 4:13PM

For me what makes collecting fun is a chance to hunt down the rare and key dates.

3stars · November 14, 2019 4:18PM

Mint should jack up the prices as well. They could have sold this for $200 and it still would have sold out with the limited mintage.

Texast · November 14, 2019 4:19PM

I'm interested if the people left on the board are more about making the next quick profit, or helping out the next generation of Collector

Insider2 · November 14, 2019 4:23PM

Absolutely! I've tried to purchase these "instant winners" four times but have only been successful twice. I'd like to see issues such as this once every month!

3stars · November 14, 2019 4:23PM

@Texast said:
I'm interested if the people left on the board are more about making the next quick profit, or helping out the next generation of Collector

Many older generation collectors didn't get one either, whose going to help them? The fact that this coin was posted in a public forum with its potential discussed should have been help enough, not the older generations fault that the mint servers were screwed up.

Kliao · November 14, 2019 4:25PM

@Texast said:
I'm interested if the people left on the board are more about making the next quick profit, or helping out the next generation of Collector

For me both because I am a teen and wish more of my friends would take up the hobby instead of playing video games. Might be a surprise to some people but most of my time is allocated for school, numismatics/precious metals.

I do enjoy the quick profit but I do believe that helping out the next generation (me ) is important to.

cameonut2011 · November 14, 2019 4:39PM

Isn't this the second or third thread you have created on this topic expressing disappointment? I'll agree that the roll out was a catastrophe, but don't blame those who want and were able to buy them either.

Texast · November 14, 2019 4:44PM

@cameonut2011 said:
Isn't this the second or third thread you have created on this topic expressing disappointment? I'll agree that the roll out was a catastrophe, but don't blame those who want and were able to buy them either.

Sorry, this is the only POLL on the subject, I have started one thread, as a result of some of the traffic I decided to leave it to a Poll.

The reason I made an anonymous poll it's because some of the newer members of The forum such as yourself didn't like the old-timers having anything to say about it.

cameonut2011 · November 14, 2019 4:48PM

@Texast said:

@cameonut2011 said:
Isn't this the second or third thread you have created on this topic expressing disappointment? I'll agree that the roll out was a catastrophe, but don't blame those who want and were able to buy them either.

Sorry, this is the only POLL on the subject, I have started one thread, as a result of some of the traffic I decided to leave it to a Poll.

The reason I made an anonymous poll it's because some of the newer members of The forum such as yourself didn't light the old-timers having anything to say about it.

I don't have problems with veteran collectors commenting, it just seems that you are very distressed about the whole ordeal. Stress and anger isn't good for anyone health wise. And I'm not really a newer member - I've been posting for four years and have collected for more than a quarter century. I usually don't touch moderns. I think this is the first coin I have purchased directly from the Mint in over a decade.

BuffaloIronTail · November 14, 2019 4:52PM

I don't like either option.

NO purposefully made circulating rarities at all.

Pete

ctf_error_coins · November 14, 2019 4:53PM

Yes.

New Low mintage coins will help the hobby tremendously.

TommyType · November 14, 2019 5:14PM

I had no interest in the coin in question....

But the whole thing reminds me of a purse manufacturing company my wife follows closely. They are forever releasing "limited edition" colors. They sell WAY fewer than they could. And every time, the "ladies" get less and less ladylike about the situation. Accusations fly, profiteering takes place. It's ugly...even from afar.

So, what happens the NEXT time the company releases a pink purse with hearts? The same thing. They sell like hotcakes.

For them, it's a business model! You can sell only so many blue, red, and yellow purses. Start a frenzy, and EVERYONE wants the Halloween orange one with skulls on it.

It will keep happening until the "masses" stop feeding the beast.

To a lesser degree, it could be that the Mint sees the same potential. You KNOW you can sell out, take your quick buck, and then go back to your normal products and procedures.

Texast · November 14, 2019 5:16PM

@cameonut2011 said:

@Texast said:

@cameonut2011 said:
Isn't this the second or third thread you have created on this topic expressing disappointment? I'll agree that the roll out was a catastrophe, but don't blame those who want and were able to buy them either.

Sorry, this is the only POLL on the subject, I have started one thread, as a result of some of the traffic I decided to leave it to a Poll.

The reason I made an anonymous poll it's because some of the newer members of The forum such as yourself didn't light the old-timers having anything to say about it.

I don't have problems with veteran collectors commenting, it just seems that you are very distressed about the whole ordeal. Stress and anger isn't good for anyone health wise. And I'm not really a newer member - I've been posting for four years and have collected for more than a quarter century. I usually don't touch moderns. I think this is the first coin I have purchased directly from the Mint in over a decade.

Just having one of those days where I thought our government was passed the point of screwing up as badly as they did today, but they're not.

Thanks for worrying about my health I should too, I just have to believe that the United States Mint should have in no way been involved in creating an opportunistic Rarity we're only a select few really had a chance.

I have to apologize to you for the comment about being a new forum member, I just thought it strange that with all the people who have commented on the boards, and the shear number of threads created today about this, and there have been many, I wondered whose toes may have been stepped upon.

I hope you accept my apologies,

I guess one way we could avoid all these problems is to let everyone just order by mail. And may the first 30,000 Hand written envelopes received get to order one.

At least everyone would get an equal chance. 😁

Kove · November 14, 2019 5:23PM

There are enough coins with an unlimited mintage.

I think it's healthy for a series to have a few key/semi-key dates.

BBN · November 14, 2019 5:33PM

Maybe I'm just skeptical, but to me, the biggest loser will be the people who buy off of the ones who were able to get it from the mint. I think it will only go down once in hand of the second owners.

santinidollar · November 14, 2019 5:36PM

Contrived rarities is a good term. To me, that’s not what collecting is about — something that was minted day before yesterday.

DNADave · November 14, 2019 5:43PM

Didn’t the Franklin mint have a lot of limited releases?

I do believe they did.

Akbeez · November 14, 2019 5:53PM

IT'S ABOUT TIME the Mint started cutting back mintages. Today was a bit stressful and had to work like hell to get through, but NO PAIN NO GAIN. We made a party of it and was actually kind of a fun competition. Frankly high mintage ASEs were getting rather boring and I was about to quit them (silver Libertads at mintages of 1000 are very attractive).

daltex · November 14, 2019 6:06PM

Oh. I thought this was about the W mint quarters.

lkeigwin · November 14, 2019 6:17PM

I like the low mintages. Good for the hobby.

Maybe the Mint should have sold 6,000/day for five consecutive days.
Lance.

ms70 · November 14, 2019 6:18PM

"Should the United States Mint create Contrived Rarities?"

Where's the NO option?

If it's an intentionally created rarity it's a marketing game, not a rarity.

Zoins · November 14, 2019 6:53PM

@Texast said:
I'm interested if the people left on the board are more about making the next quick profit, or helping out the next generation of Collector

I’m more about having some interesting things for people to collect.

jmlanzaf · November 14, 2019 6:56PM

Today was EXCITING. And the excitement stretched back many weeks for most of us. You want a reverse proof Eagle dated 2019, get the W. This was an EVENT and we should celebrate it!

jwitten · November 14, 2019 7:02PM

If they DON'T do stuff like this, collecting is doomed. This gives people a chance to make a few bucks, get a rarity for cheap, hunt down and collect rarities in the future, etc. I think they should sell a good flippable coin at least once a year.

ms70 · November 14, 2019 7:05PM

@jwitten said:
If they DON'T do stuff like this, collecting is doomed. This gives people a chance to make a few bucks, get a rarity for cheap, hunt down and collect rarities in the future, etc. I think they should sell a good flippable coin at least once a year.

No offense, but this doesn't seem like collecting to me. This sounds more like business.

jmlanzaf · November 14, 2019 7:07PM

@ms70 said:

@jwitten said:
If they DON'T do stuff like this, collecting is doomed. This gives people a chance to make a few bucks, get a rarity for cheap, hunt down and collect rarities in the future, etc. I think they should sell a good flippable coin at least once a year.

No offense, but this doesn't seem like collecting to me. This sounds more like business.

Why are those 2 different things? Isn't part of the allure of a 1916-D dime (which looks a lot like a 1916-S dime) the fact that it has a higher price tag because it is a key date? People on this board are constantly talking about value. In fact, the most common piece of advice on this board is to NOT buy Mint products because they invariably go down in value. Does that make the commemorative less important, less attractive, less collectible?

MasonG · November 14, 2019 7:11PM

@Texast said:
After one of the biggest debacles in years ordinary Collectors were blocked from purchasing a Contrived Rarity...

Lots of people were unable to purchase a contrived rarity, collectors and flippers alike. Do you think the mint actually went to the trouble to identify prospective purchasers and direct these sales to specific people?

Kliao · November 14, 2019 7:11PM

@ms70 said:

@jwitten said:
If they DON'T do stuff like this, collecting is doomed. This gives people a chance to make a few bucks, get a rarity for cheap, hunt down and collect rarities in the future, etc. I think they should sell a good flippable coin at least once a year.

No offense, but this doesn't seem like collecting to me. This sounds more like business.

It’s collecting as the fun challenging parts are the rare and key dates.
True it can be a business, But this creates hype To Attract more collectors and a cheap key date as @jwitten said

ms70 · November 14, 2019 8:19PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@ms70 said:

@jwitten said:
If they DON'T do stuff like this, collecting is doomed. This gives people a chance to make a few bucks, get a rarity for cheap, hunt down and collect rarities in the future, etc. I think they should sell a good flippable coin at least once a year.

No offense, but this doesn't seem like collecting to me. This sounds more like business.

Why are those 2 different things? Isn't part of the allure of a 1916-D dime (which looks a lot like a 1916-S dime) the fact that it has a higher price tag because it is a key date?

the '16-D wasn't a manufactured rarity and it was a circulating coin.

bsshog40 · November 14, 2019 8:36PM

It doesn't bother me for the mint to make so-called potential rare coins. The process of trying to purchase one of these is substandard though. Not everyone can afford high speed internet and most cell phone services are limited themselves. If the mint wants to make potentially rare coins for the collector, then they should change ways that they can be ordered.

bigjpst · November 14, 2019 8:51PM

@ms70 said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ms70 said:

@jwitten said:
If they DON'T do stuff like this, collecting is doomed. This gives people a chance to make a few bucks, get a rarity for cheap, hunt down and collect rarities in the future, etc. I think they should sell a good flippable coin at least once a year.

No offense, but this doesn't seem like collecting to me. This sounds more like business.

Why are those 2 different things? Isn't part of the allure of a 1916-D dime (which looks a lot like a 1916-S dime) the fact that it has a higher price tag because it is a key date?

the '16-D wasn't a manufactured rarity and it was a circulating coin.

The way I see it the 16-d and 09-s VDB are very similar to this.
None are rare
The 16-D and 09-S VDB were hoarded by collectors with the hopes of profiting.

Don’t fool yourself thinking that lots of “collectors” didn’t get a chance to buy this coin. Many of the flippers of this coin will end up being coin collectors who will use that money to purchase something that fits into their collection. I see it as no different than the coin collector who gets to pull silver change out of the till at work. That coin was available to all who’s hands it passed through. The collector used their knowledge and possibly luck in timing to pull that 90% coin from circulation and sell it on eBay/show etc for a profit.
I don’t know if it’s a good idea for the mint to be creating rarities, but it sparks interest and that will be good for the hobby if they don’t do it too often.
I also think that many of those who are pissed that they didn’t get one of these coins will no doubt be on the PC next time a flip opportunity shows up.

Walkerfan · November 14, 2019 8:59PM

An Old Timer once told me that, if something is meant to be collected, then it will never become collectible and/or valuable. I tend to agree with that. As for contrived Rarities, well sure, they can try to make them scarce and valuable. I think they're making an honest effort to help the hobby and Market, which I applaud. They may even be hard to get, at first, but just wait a few years and, then, they will show up on the secondary Market, at a reasonable price. JMHO.

Akbeez · November 14, 2019 9:08PM

How do we KNOW the 16-d and 09-s VDB mintages were not contrived? Pardon my ignorance, but do we know? Someone made the decision to limit production, why?

bigjpst · November 14, 2019 9:11PM

@Akbeez said:
How do we KNOW the 16-d and 09-s VDB mintages were not contrived? Pardon my ignorance, but do we know? Someone made the decision to limit production, why?

We have a story whether true or not as to why the 09-S VDB mintage was low. Numismatic lore at least.

Texast · November 14, 2019 9:33PM

@bsshog40 said:
It doesn't bother me for the mint to make so-called potential rare coins. The process of trying to purchase one of these is substandard though. Not everyone can afford high speed internet and most cell phone services are limited themselves. If the mint wants to make potentially rare coins for the collector, then they should change ways that they can be ordered.

This is so true, the mess created by the mint will not be forgotten any time soon.

An interesting fact I learned from a Mint sales person today is that even with the crash it only took three minutes to sell out.

I would have to guess this is the fastest sell out by the mint ever.

Mind boggling.

3stars · November 14, 2019 10:38PM

This is a business in a way. Today’s business gets me the profits to invest in things such as $2.5 gold Indians and such. It reduces the monetary risk on other coins as not coming directly from my principal.

ParlousJoe · November 15, 2019 1:19AM

I really do understand how upsetting it can be to want one of these rare coins or sets and not get one, especially when you are there to purchase it as soon as it goes on sale and then have what happened today (or just about every time the Mint puts something hot and rare up for sale) with the U.S. Mint system crashing like it did today. I have had it happen to me a few times in the past and a lot of other collectors, over the years, even not getting an item because I wasn't fast enough to get my correct CC input in time and have the item sell out. It is very upsetting, especially when you know that a lot of the buyers that very rarely buy anything from the USM and are just going to flip it, hell, that is really why you, me and a lot of other people might really be upset about, is because we didn't get the one, two, three or 15 to either keep one or sell all but one today, tomorrow or years from now to hopefully make a little profit off of it someday or are really pissed because you then have to pay a lot more for the item in the secondary market, but, you knew going into it before "that hot item" went on sale that you just might be one of the one's that doesn't get one and if you did happen to get one, you know damn well you wouldn't be upset, mad or really pissed off and say anything for the ones that didn't get one! You know how many times I have seen collectors say that they were going to quit collecting because they didn't get that "hot item" only to hear them the next time the next hot item came out and how happy they were to get one or a couple, a lot of times.

Its just the way it is unfortunately with any rare item, no matter what it might be today. You either lucked out, got one, two, three or 15 or you didn't get any at all. You will either continue to collect or you won't, and to me, if you stopped collecting because of not being able to get something that everyone wanted, then what kind of collector were you in the first place?

Again, I have been there and so has a lot of other people but most don't quit collecting, they will just suck it up and pay for the item in the secondary market if that is an item you/me/them absolutely have to have for your collection and if not, then it really wasn't that important for your collection. Its just part of collecting. Also, if its something that you just have to have and cant really afford to buy one in the secondary market, why not try trading something that you might have, that YOU were lucky enough to get but somebody else wasn't so lucky to get because of what happened to you today. That is also part of a way to collect, by trading.

All I can say, is good luck to everyone on the "next hot item" that everyone wants to get a hold of, because the next time the shoe might be on the other foot!

jmlanzaf · November 15, 2019 1:31AM

@ms70 said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@ms70 said:

@jwitten said:
If they DON'T do stuff like this, collecting is doomed. This gives people a chance to make a few bucks, get a rarity for cheap, hunt down and collect rarities in the future, etc. I think they should sell a good flippable coin at least once a year.

No offense, but this doesn't seem like collecting to me. This sounds more like business.

Why are those 2 different things? Isn't part of the allure of a 1916-D dime (which looks a lot like a 1916-S dime) the fact that it has a higher price tag because it is a key date?

the '16-D wasn't a manufactured rarity and it was a circulating coin.

That misses the point. There is a $ value that goes with those coins.

If you want an extreme example: 1913 Liberty Nickel. That coin is all hype

ParlousJoe · November 15, 2019 1:33AM

Also, I believe that the U.S. Mint should try to put a system in place where they offer people a very limited item by how much they buy and spend every year. For example, a person gets first chance/offer to buy something because they bought a lot and spent say $1500 or more for that year or the year before if its early in the year for the item to come out, then the next ones to get the offer would be the ones that spent $1499 to $1000, then $999 to $500 and then $499 to $10 dollars and they can only get one. Then its a first come first served the next day and that would make it fair to the ones that really do spend/buy and collect a lot with the USM, seems to be the only fair way for everyone when the real limited and rare items come out.

bsshog40 · November 15, 2019 6:20AM

@ParlousJoe said:
Also, I believe that the U.S. Mint should try to put a system in place where they offer people a very limited item by how much they buy and spend every year. For example, a person gets first chance/offer to buy something because they bought a lot and spent say $1500 or more for that year or the year before if its early in the year for the item to come out, then the next ones to get the offer would be the ones that spent $1499 to $1000, then $999 to $500 and then $499 to $10 dollars and they can only get one. Then its a first come first served the next day and that would make it fair to the ones that really do spend/buy and collect a lot with the USM, seems to be the only fair way for everyone when the real limited and rare items come out.

Sounds a little discriminating to me!

ricko · November 15, 2019 6:38AM

Well, well.....another forum storm......It is over folks...until the next one....Cheers, RickO

Texast · November 15, 2019 6:54AM

@ricko said:
Well, well.....another forum storm......It is over folks...until the next one....Cheers, RickO

It would have been nice, Now all I have to do is wait for the mailman to show with the nice Shinny Morgan I bought instead. (I knew there had to be an upside to this)

The storm is over isn't it. 😁

ricko · November 15, 2019 6:59AM

@Texast....Soon... will take a couple more days....But this too shall pass - as it always does. Cheers, RickO

Catbert · November 15, 2019 7:36AM

@Texast said:
I'm interested if the people left on the board are more about making the next quick profit, or helping out the next generation of Collector

I’m guessing you didn’t expect your poll to produce the outcome it did.

To answer your question - neither.

I’m not interested in modern mint product nor do I think our mint needs to create a costly or elaborate system to make it easier for certain buyers to get in line.

Creating some hobby excitement is of greater benefit then the disappointment of those who didn’t get satisfaction.

Texast · November 15, 2019 1:40PM

@Catbert said:

@Texast said:
I'm interested if the people left on the board are more about making the next quick profit, or helping out the next generation of Collector

I’m guessing you didn’t expect your poll to produce the outcome it did.

To answer your question - neither.

I’m not interested in modern mint product nor do I think our mint needs to create a costly or elaborate system to make it easier for certain buyers to get in line.

Creating some hobby excitement is of greater benefit then the disappointment of those who didn’t get satisfaction.

Actually I expected more votes to make it rare, by being anonymous I wanted to see the "Real attitude of the majority,".

I got over it and bought a very nice Morgan Dollar that had cought my eye.

😁. Smiles all around.

Baley · November 15, 2019 2:03PM

30 thousand coins, almost all to be preserved in perfect or nearly perfect condition forever.

So, R1= common.

MilesWaits · November 15, 2019 2:16PM

Contrived, yes, boring, no.
Spousal Gold, contrived, at a fraction of this ASE mintage, boring as hell and super-low demand.

cheezhed · November 15, 2019 2:43PM

And a fraction of the cost.

Should the United States Mint create Contrived Rarities?

Should the United States Mint create Contrived Rarities?

Should the United States Mint create Contrived Rarities? 71 votes

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