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A New Hot Topics Ranking The Greatest Collections of Our Generation
Gazes
Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
I thought I would post a link to Legend's new hot topic ranking the greatest collections of our generation. https://www.legendnumismatics.com/hot_topics/time-to-set-the-record-straight/
Although I don't necessarily agree with the order of the rankings, I appreciate someone taking the time to post their opinion. I also appreciate the information shared in the article. Since this forum is all about discussing coins and collections, maybe others can share their opinion/ranking (keep in mind it is focused on current collectors or collections recently formed ---not Eliasberg, Pittman, etc).
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She has never learned the difference between then and than
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I wish the author would take her own advice: “If you want to throw titles around, then do it responsibly and do not disrespect others.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I appreciate the input on these boards from some of the foremost collectors of today. Several of the names on that list are regular contributors to our discussions.
Let's keep this thread ad hominem attack free if we're going to keep it up. Thanks
Brett Charville --- I work at PCGS
Good point Brett. I think its ambitious to rank all these collections and there are others, known and unseen to be considered. I've never thought about being considered a top ten, since my collection is focused on a relatively narrow period from 1792 to 1839 and focused mostly on silver coins save dollars from that period. As if anyone could compete with my friend Bruce's dollars if they tried (and that was before he upgraded from Oliver Jung) or his current passion of a best ever pre-1800 type set. The sets centered and built over type sets tend to be broader in scope no doubt. The list compares apples to pumpkins to pineapples, these collections are all quite different. I personally would rank Dell Loy higher. How high, time will tell. He is clearly the most recent collector added to the list. I suspect his speed in depth over these past 3 years, has not been equalled except perhaps the day after Eliasberg bought a two generation collection intact. And really great collections do take a long time to assemble, just to have opportunities for many great rarities. I feel the list of collectors and collections leading the pack is incredible, deep and historic. Certainly a time in history to match the era of Eliasberg, Norweb, Pittman and Garret. In fact most of the coins from those sets of 20 to 30 years ago are the centerpieces of the ten sets Laura described, that's especially true for my Early American silver. I think we should think in terms of the aggregate being great dor our hobby headed into 2020! Of course there are myriad other amazing collections focused on specific series or themes, that are also great collections, but not so broad in scope. I'm not trying to be diplomatic, but honest about believing these are really amazing collections built by amazing collectors....BRAVO!
I know that I'm myopic but....
From a Walker guy's perspective, it should have included:
Eric Lane from the Cajun collection
Jack Lee
James Bennett Pryor
Anne Kate
The Ally collection
Fred Yee
Helen Gates Kirk
Bob Moreno
Kallenberg
Just to name a few.....as those were all Epic collections and very, very important, in the history of the Walking Liberty half-dollar.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Assuming this person also goes by the name of "A prominent Eastern collector".
Can I change my forum name to "A prominent Appalachian collector?"
My Saint Set
In many ways, the modest collector is more passionate than the goliath.
Pffft. So you’d like to think
A Pittman today is not possible.
.
I have found truth in the saying "life is a journey and not a destination". Collection of coins or anything else for that matter, should also not be quantified as a destination. Laura has every right to rate her opinion of the greatest coin collectors alive today. But it might be more appropriately described as a Legend Numismatics Customer Hall of Fame. I am sure that other great coin dealers, and great numismatists might provide a more objective ranking.
@brettPCGS I would suggest that references to dealer blogs such as this should not be appropriate on this forum as it adds a commercial aspect to our discussions.
OINK
It's great when a collector posts here. Luckily, a few on the list have and I hope more do.
An amazing list and certainly incredible collections. Would it not be a marvelous thing to see them all displayed in one large hall for viewing? Cheers, RickO
Hmmmm, Somethings wrong with that list! I don't see my collection listed!
Would it not be a marvelous thing to see them all displayed in one large hall for viewing? Cheers, RickO
But, RickO, if they put together such an exhibit, would you go see it or just ask for a show report?
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
I’m not sure how Laura can compare a collection that’s trying to be the most complete collection of U.S. coins ever to multiple specialized collections. It seems like we’re comparing apples to oranges.
How do I know this is a good or impartial list? How do I know it isn't just a list of "my favorite customers".
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
what ever the collection is or who ever built it I still enjoy looking at a good collection and enjoy it, fwiw
More like comparing the apple aisle in a supermarket, to the supermarket.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Everyone can have their own definition of "great". Suppose I had a complete U.S. collection, most of which was Fine or lower (except the obvious). How would you compare that to a complete U.S. gold only collection that was MS or Proof Gem only? Complete Overton set of Halves, all top pops? Complete set of U.S. patterns but no coins?
It's always apples to oranges unless you stick within a registry set category or something like that.
Why do you have to care? It's one person's opinion based on their criteria.
My list of "Greatest U.S. Presidents" probably isn't the same as yours. Does that mean I can't have one? It's fun to talk about if nothing else.
I think he's planning on having the exhibit at his house.
One of the coolest things about this hobby is that it allows a collector to hide his ego out of view in his safe deposit box, if he so chooses. Just saying.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I didn’t see any mention of complete U.S. coin collection. I did see mentions of specialized collections so she may be treating the complete U.S. coin collection as multiple specialized collections. Seems like having a complete U.S. coin collection isn’t a factor in this list.
She does mention the #1 collector on her list isn’t a “hole filler” so that also seems to indicate a complete coin collection is subordinate to having individual great coins.
The answer to your question is actually in the article itself. To quote verbatim; "I am tired of being disrespected. I want see the public know the TRUTH (emphasis added) about collections and collectors who are world class. If you want to throw titles around, then do it responsibly and do not disrespect others." So there you have it my friend. It is not just a list of "my favorite customers." It is the TRUTH!
What good is the list without an explanation? In this case, I don't even know who all of the presidents are. It's very close to being a zero content post by Laura Sperber. It feels like a stream of consciousness/free associationn exercise.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
Well, Laura does kind of write that way. Feel free to ignore the list.
I like what Bernard Edison (aka Tettenhorst) said - collecting is like golf. In the end you are playing against yourself. Rankings are great for stirring the pot, and no one can deny the influence of the set registries. Like MrEureka says, it doesn't have to be that way.
Great analogy. I don’t have to be number one. I just want to be complete and be the best that I can be. To me, that’s a major accomplishment.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Yes, and those that are driven only by the competition are more likely to burn out early.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
@Coinstartled:
Absolutely. It has long been known the strength of numismatics comes from the middle. These passionate collectors become numismatists, research, and write the specialist books that are used for the enjoyment of collectors at all levels.
Hmmmm. Interesting post, I guess.
I was following along just fine until I got to the part about "I'm tired of being disrespected." I'm not really sure how that ties in with a list of the greatest collectors. While Laura might feel that way, I'm not sure it's true. I think the majority of people in the hobby regard her as a qualified and successful dealer in high-end coins. Perhaps that's not enough?
In my experience, those who command respect didn't go around asking for it and in fact they probably didn't give it much thought. Dealing with people at the top end of anything comes with it's own set of subtleties, egos, and etiquette. I wouldn't expect anyone to navigate those waters without some bumps at times.
And some of the egos would need a pretty large safe deposit box.
I wonder which collector on the list has the most PCGS #1 All-Time and #1 Current Sets. I think I know, but just wondering if anyone else may know or can confirm.
Question: If my collection is 3-4 hand-picked CAC approved coins valued at $5K apiece for a total collection value of $15-$20K, and someone else has a nice complete 50-piece collection with total value of $30K, but no coin in the collection is individually valued more $1K, which collection would you consider the better of the two? There is no right or wrong answer, because it is a matter of opinion. What is your opinion?
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I’d want to see what the coins look like via images, if not view them in hand, in order to have an opinion.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That is exactly what the "top 10" list was trying to get across. Anyone can fill holes with a sufficient checkbook, and you shouldn't judge a collector numerically. So you look at other factors - can they pick the best coin out of ten MS65s? Do they know in whose collection the 11th is buried? Can they explain why the sole MS66 piece isn't necessarily an "upgrade?" The fun part is that this doesn't have to be all about finest knowns. The same questions apply at many grade levels.
That makes sense but I refuse to agree w/ Laura on anything.
My Saint Set
I know I am going to get burned at the stake for saying this but I think what Dell Loy is doing is way cooler than any specialized or partial collection. To answer the previous question, I would much rather look at a complete collection of coins rather than just a few hand picked gems but that is how I roll. To each their own. The depth and breadth of what Dell Loy is trying to do at a very high level of quality is impressive to me regardless of the size of his checkbook. I also love that he is willing to share this collection with the public and is not keeping it secret for no one to see or know about except a select few. I guess I am more of a set collector at heart versus a type collector just looking for one high grade example of each type or just focusing on a narrow range or subset.
Surely, the Everyman Barber would be next on her list!!
I’ll add something that should be obvious. There is a big difference between ranking great collections and ranking great collectors.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Agree. I wonder which collectors have had the biggest impact on collecting.
One would think that if you were going to go through the trouble of making a list of "greatest collections" you would start by defining "greatest" and listing the criteria used in formulating your list. Greatest as in most complete? Biggest contribution to numismatics? Finest known? Highest value? Condition rarity?
I hope Laura is feeling better.
Edited: It looks like she explains more in depth at the bottom and I initially overlooked it.
Regarding criteria, here's an excerpt on the "Top 5" collectors aside from Pogue.
...I would love to make that list and I Respect all that are on it...I also Respect the author...but for now I am torn between All-Mohair Scottish throws or the softer 100% Cashmere style for the back of the man-cave La-Z-Boy’s...the wife likes the Cashmere so probably I’ll go ahead with the Mohair’s...the main goal is to keep it a man-cave
There are many ways to look at it. I agree that I see a lot of similarities between golf and collecting. There will always be golfers who simply enjoy the game, the outdoors, trying to become better, etc. But there will also be golfers who want to be the best and want to be number 1. Nothing is wrong with either approach. Further, the recreational golfer is the backbone of the golf industry since it is what keeps golf courses open, golf equipment sales going, etc. However, people who appreciate the game love seeing the best compete. The love the drama of pro golfers trying to be the best. Highlighting the best golfers helps draw interest to the game and creates more golfers. Likewise there is nothing wrong with collecting coins that cost you $3 per coin and there is nothing wrong with trying to put together the number 1 collection of all time. Yes---the average coin collector will not own a million dollar coin or a complete collection of every date but highlighting the "top collectors" or "top collections" brings interest to our hobby. Plus, just like golf we love the drama of watching it play out.
Golf and coin collecting go together in this book:
"Pleasure and Profit:100 Lessons for Building and Selling a Collection of Rare Coins.
Robert W. Shippee
Good read IMO.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
Oliver Jung’s type collection is/was amazing but trying to compare his collection to Hansen’s makes absolutely no sense to at least me.
Secondly, who cares how knowledgeable a collector is about their coins? His/her coins speak for themselves and it’s the coins in the collection that are the criteria for top collections, not how great a numismatist they are.
I agree.
Because I'm not on it.