You can’t take it with you...Have you prepared for the inevitable?

ScarsdaleCoin · October 15, 2019 9:38PM

The hard truth is that at some point we will all pass... so a moment for some serious questions? Have you discussed your coin holdings with other family members? Do they know the value? Would they know who to turn to?

Ive been meaning to post this because I receive so many calls from family members who really are so unprepared for dealing with their heirs collections.

Perhaps this thread will help a few folks... feel free to add comments and suggestions. It’s not cut and dried as everyone’s situation will be different.

At the very least please provide some sort of value list of the collection. With some items it’s a bit easier, for example a one ounce gold eagle we know would be around spot. But as an example would your wife or child know that the 1 Oz maple is Platinum and not silver?

Would they sell it for $15 to Mr Sneaky Pawn Dealer? Perhaps leaving a name of a trusted dealer or numismatic friend (someone from the local coin club) would be helpful

Also how about the strange items that have value but if you didn’t know you might just throw out. You know for example that original PCGS rattler box made of cardboard probably worth $75 dollars but to someone not familiar well it’s just a cardboard box.

Another thing I see is that some folks don’t want to tell their significant others how much money they spend for items so they just say oh I bought this nickel but it was only fifty dollars
when the actual purchase may have been several hundred, this tends to throw off a spouse the real value of a collection since they believe that the items were bought for much less.

I see it all too often so I just wanted to bring up some of the points and hope perhaps I could help a few folks here. Even those that have lists etc. make sure to update them both for items that you may have sold or no longer own and also for updating current pricing

May we all live for many more years but let’s also prepare and with that may I wish you all a good night!

Hemispherical · October 15, 2019 9:42PM

Very good things to think about and then put into writing and saved with the important documents such as one’s will.

Tibor · October 15, 2019 10:58PM

Even though I'm 62, I have already started to sell of some collections that I've
put together over the last 45 years. My partial Morgan set will be the first to go.
This includes 40-50 Vam's that I own. Since I'm a member of the ANA I will go
ATS to get many coins slabbed. The Vam's will visit with ANACS. My Early Dated
coins will go to auction with my brothers help. The few hundred rolls of Wheaties
don't matter. I've discussed all of this with my wife and brother.

291fifth · October 16, 2019 12:59AM

As I have said in other posts, don't die with your collection.

If you like coins but have reached the age where you have to be concerned with what your heirs would do with your collection it is time to sell. From that point on collect only knowledge about coins, not the coins themselves.

The first things to be sold should be highly specialized collections with thin markets. These may prove to be more difficult to sell than even you realize depending on just how thin the market really is. Next to go would be the numismatic coins with large, well developed markets. Finally, the bullion related items should go whenever you feel a market peak has been reached.

Be sure to consider tax consequences when you sell. You may not want to sell everything at once.

MrEureka · October 16, 2019 2:15AM

Another consideration. Many of us have large quantities of miscellaneous cheap coins that are barely worth our attention and not well organized or even attributed. The value may not be meaningful, but the time it would take our heirs to deal with it could be overwhelming. At the very least, mark those boxes or bags or buckets with some general indication of value.

Zoins · October 16, 2019 2:46AM

@MrEureka said:
Another consideration. Many of us have large quantities of miscellaneous cheap coins that are barely worth our attention and not well organized or even attributed. The value may not be meaningful, but the time it would take our heirs to deal with it could be overwhelming. At the very least, mark those boxes or bags or buckets with some general indication of value.

For cheap coins where there isn't necessarily a desire to recoup value, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to donate to the local coin club or Boy Scouts. They might find their way into the collections of YNs and others interested in the coins.

Of course, if you have a great pedigree like the Lance Armstrong family, even cheap things can sell for hundreds or thousands.

MrEureka · October 16, 2019 3:25AM

@Zoins said:

@MrEureka said:
Another consideration. Many of us have large quantities of miscellaneous cheap coins that are barely worth our attention and not well organized or even attributed. The value may not be meaningful, but the time it would take our heirs to deal with it could be overwhelming. At the very least, mark those boxes or bags or buckets with some general indication of value.

For cheap coins where there isn't necessarily a desire to recoup value, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to donate to the local coin club or Boy Scouts. They might find their way into the collections of YNs and others interested in the coins.

Yes, but first the heirs have to determine the value. Our job is to make that easier for them.

Zoins · October 16, 2019 3:31AM

@MrEureka said:

@Zoins said:

@MrEureka said:
Another consideration. Many of us have large quantities of miscellaneous cheap coins that are barely worth our attention and not well organized or even attributed. The value may not be meaningful, but the time it would take our heirs to deal with it could be overwhelming. At the very least, mark those boxes or bags or buckets with some general indication of value.

For cheap coins where there isn't necessarily a desire to recoup value, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to donate to the local coin club or Boy Scouts. They might find their way into the collections of YNs and others interested in the coins.

Yes, but first the heirs have to determine the value. Our job is to make that easier for them.

I was thinking about donating it before passing away.

My current thought is to have everything distributed beforehand, unless someone shows an interest in coins. Of course, sometimes interest developers much later, or even skips a generation, so that's something to consider as well.

MrEureka · October 16, 2019 3:33AM

@Zoins said:

@MrEureka said:

@Zoins said:

@MrEureka said:
Another consideration. Many of us have large quantities of miscellaneous cheap coins that are barely worth our attention and not well organized or even attributed. The value may not be meaningful, but the time it would take our heirs to deal with it could be overwhelming. At the very least, mark those boxes or bags or buckets with some general indication of value.

For cheap coins where there isn't necessarily a desire to recoup value, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to donate to the local coin club or Boy Scouts. They might find their way into the collections of YNs and others interested in the coins.

Yes, but first the heirs have to determine the value. Our job is to make that easier for them.

I was thinking about donating it before passing away.

My current thought is to have everything distributed beforehand, unless someone shows an interest in coins. Of course, sometimes interest developers much later, or even skips a generation, so that's something to consider as well.

Sounds like a perfect plan as long as you know when you’re going.

Zoins · October 16, 2019 3:34AM

@MrEureka said:

@Zoins said:

@MrEureka said:

@Zoins said:

@MrEureka said:
Another consideration. Many of us have large quantities of miscellaneous cheap coins that are barely worth our attention and not well organized or even attributed. The value may not be meaningful, but the time it would take our heirs to deal with it could be overwhelming. At the very least, mark those boxes or bags or buckets with some general indication of value.

For cheap coins where there isn't necessarily a desire to recoup value, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to donate to the local coin club or Boy Scouts. They might find their way into the collections of YNs and others interested in the coins.

Yes, but first the heirs have to determine the value. Our job is to make that easier for them.

I was thinking about donating it before passing away.

My current thought is to have everything distributed beforehand, unless someone shows an interest in coins. Of course, sometimes interest developers much later, or even skips a generation, so that's something to consider as well.

Sounds like a perfect plan as long as you know when you’re going.

Either that or just don't wait that long. Enjoy the collection, e.g. do the research, and then sell. Kind of like what @RogerB's strategy has been as of late, but with a bit more focus on collecting, rather than strictly collecting for research.

I was also thinking of Brent Pogue who seemed to sell his collection early but I just looked him up and was shocked to learn he passed away at 54 a few months ago. Very sobering. RIP.

https://coinweek.com/people-in-the-news/in-memoriam/famous-coin-collector-d-brent-pogue-dead-at-54/

2ndCharter · October 16, 2019 4:26AM

I'm too attached to everything to let it go before I'm gone. However, a copy of the inventory (updated on a regular basis) is kept in the SDB along with instructions that the collection will be auctioned by Heritage (all appropriate contact information included). Everything has been discussed with the wife and kids and they fully understand the plan. Hopefully, that's still decades away but you never know.

TwoSides2aCoin · October 16, 2019 5:31AM

When you live with widgets , you die with widgets. Don't call Laura when I die , kids !

topstuf · October 16, 2019 5:43AM

One more death thread and I think I'll start collecting them.

davewesen · October 16, 2019 5:45AM

some common adages are just wrong

tincup · October 16, 2019 6:15AM

davewesen, that is so garish... can't imagine who would want to use that coffin, but I guess to each their own. Certainly not for me.

As a morbid thought.... some fool would probably think that would be worth digging back up sometime in the future....

tincup · October 16, 2019 6:17AM

So those of you who are thinking it is time to sell due to age.... what about bullion holdings? Are you going to sell those also, or are you going to hold those until the inevitable day?

ShadyDave · October 16, 2019 7:56AM

@2ndCharter said:
I'm too attached to everything to let it go before I'm gone. However, a copy of the inventory (updated on a regular basis) is kept in the SDB along with instructions that the collection will be auctioned by Heritage (all appropriate contact information included). Everything has been discussed with the wife and kids and they fully understand the plan. Hopefully, that's still decades away but you never know.

I'm very similar. I keep an excel spreadsheet to track my inventory and holdings for slabbed coins. Along with that spreadsheet, I have an additional "tab" that goes into detail on how to determine value, how to read what the front of the slab says/means (yes, they are not always intuitive to people outside our hobby), which carry a premium and why (stickers, collectible holders, eye appeal etc) and where the coins should be brought to get a fair appraisal. I'm not expecting to go anytime soon, but life does happen and I'd rather my family know what to do IF they want to sell them. I also have my Will/POA/HCA and other estate planning in place.

On my wifes side, her grandparents had a family coin collection that was pretty valuable. Her grandfather passed first and after her grandmother passed years later, the estate was being sorted out by the family. The collection went "missing" one day and was never found. I don't want to think about where it was sold and for and how little, I would have loved to combine some of her families collection with the collections I inherited from my grandparents . That is something I also think about that is often overlooked...is/will the collection be safe during the transition.

If anyone is curious, here is a screenshot of what I track in my spreadsheet. I keep the majority of my collection in a SDB so its helpful to know what I have and using the excel "filter" function makes it really easy.

ricko · October 16, 2019 8:54AM

This comes up from time to time....Each individual must make their decisions based on values and family situations. Certainly it should be addressed since we do not have foresight regarding our demise (unless there is a terminal diagnosis). I have thought of it and have made some general decisions which will not be addressed here. Cheers, RickO

Zoins · October 16, 2019 8:56AM

@ShadyDave said:
On my wifes side, her grandparents had a family coin collection that was pretty valuable. Her grandfather passed first and after her grandmother passed years later, the estate was being sorted out by the family. The collection went "missing" one day and was never found. I don't want to think about where it was sold and for and how little, I would have loved to combine some of her families collection with the collections I inherited from my grandparents . That is something I also think about that is often overlooked...is/will the collection be safe during the transition.

Wow, very sad and sobering. Good to recognize all outcome possibilities.

percyb · October 16, 2019 9:01AM

Great thread. I've been wondering what to do with my collection now for a few years,given
I've entered retirement. No one the family seems interested in collecting coins or currency.
I stopped adding to it save for keeping samples of contemporary coins and purchases of 2 ASEs each year.

matt_dac · October 16, 2019 9:27AM

For me it's an updated spreadsheet with my buy price as a reference and instructions for how to determine market value at time of sale. I should think about adding more information in terms of contacting auction houses like GC, etc.

291fifth · October 16, 2019 9:41AM

@matt_dac said:
For me it's an updated spreadsheet with my buy price as a reference and instructions for how to determine market value at time of sale. I should think about adding more information in terms of contacting auction houses like GC, etc.

If you intend to keep your collection then you need to be VERY specific about how to sell it once you are gone. If it is the kind of material that a large auction house would want then you should see if they have a service that allows for the collection to be consigned to them at the time of your passing. If it is not the type of material that a large auction house would want to handle (or would likely handle poorly) then you need to think twice about keeping it until you die. This "ordinary" material will likely bring very little when it comes time to sell if the buyer senses that the heirs know little about it and just want to get rid of it for cash.

jkrk · October 16, 2019 9:46AM

I left a treasure map so my daughter would know where the coins are buried.

Insider2 · October 16, 2019 9:47AM

NO and I pity the folks who will be left with the stuff.

Cougar1978 · October 16, 2019 10:41AM

With the market in the tank I am considering a slow drain down on US Numismatic coins (tight margins, brutal competition, no material wholesale bid advancement) spending funds on other projects. I have a new interest in Mexican Coins and Revolutionary (Banco Notes) Currency. A larger N scale layout is in the works.

Plan keep a bullion coin position though.

Namvet69 · October 16, 2019 6:32PM

Good story is that Ben Hogan the golfer hid lots of cash in his yard in Florida and when his family returned to the house after the funeral, his yard was all dug up. Just saying.

Dave99B · October 16, 2019 6:49PM

Important topic. I have things fairly well documented, and I update this info annually. More than anything, I don’t want to have my collection become a headache for someone down the road. I also don’t want the family to be taken advantage of either, so I’ve listed a few dealers I trust. That’s all you can really do, and just hope for the best!

Dave

santinidollar · October 16, 2019 7:00PM

I’ve supposedly been going down the tank for a number of years. I’ve told my heirs how to handle my collection. I ain’t worrying about it any more. So there, Bullwinkle!

Coinstartled · October 16, 2019 7:28PM

Bear did it the right way. With only months to live, he put a substantial collection together with focused urgency.

Enjoy collecting until your last day.

Most inherited money gets spent on strippers, booze and vegas trips.

The rest of it gets wasted.

topstuf · October 16, 2019 7:28PM

Only a fool would get rid of family bullion.

MFeld · October 16, 2019 7:31PM

I think one of the most important things which anyone with a collection of value can do is to make their family/heirs aware of the name and contact information for one or more trustworthy dealers and/or collector friends. The right designee can save a great deal of time, trouble, expense and stress.

crazyhounddog · October 16, 2019 7:39PM

Its a great idea to leave a will.

TwoSides2aCoin · October 17, 2019 7:56AM

From the cradle to the grave. Walk , don't run.

Onastone · October 17, 2019 8:23AM

So recapping.... you need Inventory which should include description, cost, estimated current value, and who gets what. Should the new owners of your collection decide to sell, an idea of where to sell and what to expect. If they decide to keep your collection, they should continue to keep inventory records as well until they pass and leave it to the new owner. The other choice is just to sell it while you're alive...unless family members want to collect too. Or....just leave a note with your collection. "If you're reading this, I'm probably dead. Good news, you're the new owner of a pile of gold and silver, maybe some platinum and palladium. Sorry to leave you with this treasure, and beware, some coins are worth a lot, others not so much. Good luck!"

Who knew collecting could be such a burden.

1630Boston · October 17, 2019 8:43AM

I'm just wondering if 'cost' is relevant,
would not the heirs basis be the current value when you die?
Just wondering.

Walkerfan · October 17, 2019 9:49AM

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
From the cradle to the grave. Walk , don't run.

I totally agree with this. I’m not going to waste my precious time planning my own funeral but rather enjoy my life.

291fifth · October 17, 2019 10:22AM

@1630Boston said:
I'm just wondering if 'cost' is relevant,
would not the heirs basis be the current value when you die?
Just wondering.

The buyers (usually dealers) will not care one bit about your cost. They will pay as little as they can based on current market conditions.

johnny9434 · October 17, 2019 10:46AM

@davewesen said:
some common adages are just wrong

what im going to get buried in. merry Christmas to the relatives

jkrk · October 17, 2019 10:49AM

@MFeld said:
I think one of the most important things which anyone with a collection of value can do is to make their family/heirs aware of the name and contact information for one or more trustworthy dealers and/or collector friends. The right designee can save a great deal of time, trouble, expense and stress.

Yes but if I leave them no clue how to go forward and burden them with stress they'll definitely remember me. LOl

ricman · October 17, 2019 11:00AM

Reaching such a decision point a few years ago and with no family interest or knowledge re coins, I sold everything. I still maintain interest in coins but do so without any actual coins. The money received helped to make possible the move to a resort island that we can enjoy for as long as possible.

Swampboy · October 17, 2019 11:07AM

I always appreciate thoughtful comments from the other side of the counter.
Thanks

thisistheshow · October 17, 2019 11:18AM

@ricman said:
Reaching such a decision point a few years ago and with no family interest or knowledge re coins, I sold everything. I still maintain interest in coins but do so without any actual coins. The money received helped to make possible the move to a resort island that we can enjoy for as long as possible.

Sounds like you built a valuable collection AND did well liquidating it. Congrats!

thisistheshow · October 17, 2019 11:21AM

@Namvet69 said:
Good story is that Ben Hogan the golfer hid lots of cash in his yard in Florida and when his family returned to the house after the funeral, his yard was all dug up. Just saying.

Do you know the source of this info or have a link. I'm curious to read more.

Smudge · October 17, 2019 1:25PM

Just leave me money in your will. As long as I am alive you will never die.

topstuf · October 17, 2019 2:04PM

@Namvet69 said:
Good story is that Ben Hogan the golfer hid lots of cash in his yard in Florida and when his family returned to the house after the funeral, his yard was all dug up. Just saying.

That's good to remember if you have a farm that needs plowing.

WildIdea · October 17, 2019 2:05PM

I’ve never thought it would be a problem to leave valuables behind for the family to deal with. Have them go in the basement and say “WOW! look at all this killer stuff laying everywhere! Let’s just keep it!” High card picks first. Why does everybody instantly assume heirs are gonna sell the family treasure the second they get hands on. It should compound as the family grows. I know I won’t be selling my parents hard won cherished coins, firearms, furniture and antiques they picked up back in the day. Sure, liquidate the bulk of the stuff but not anything really good. It’s part of the fun teaching my kids why something is important. Also, why even wait to die to pass it on? At 73, my Dad has already given my brother and I his police service pistols to share and enjoy now, as an example. I’ll prob pass on a Saint or something as my kids have milestones in their lives. Could be fun!

I guess I’m lucky cause I only have one brother and he’s sane and we get along, so probably not a complicated estate to sort out. I would never fight him over my parents money or stuff. I hope they spend it all enjoying themselves to the bitter end and leave me a bill or two to pay.

divecchia · October 17, 2019 3:35PM

I haven't really thought about it much, probably because I only have one child and no one else to really argue over my stuff. Maybe I may ask her what she thinks she will do with my coins when I'm gone and based on her answer I will try and educate her the best I can.

Donato

toyz4geo · October 17, 2019 3:46PM

Joe 1 "Did you hear that the richest man in the world just died?"
Joe 2 "Really! How much did he leave behind?"
Joe 1 "All of it!"

Certainly points to ponder.

Dreamcrusher · October 17, 2019 6:26PM

Several years ago, I was teaching a grading class at the GNA with Bill Fivaz. We had dinner together one night and from that dinner hatched an idea for a booklet to help collectors who are ready to disperse of their collection now or want to line things up for their family after their demise. The ANA has a booklet for sale called Managing & Settling a Numismatic Estate. Here is the link: https://www.money.org/estate-guide
I will be giving a talk on the subject at Winter FUN. Please stop by.

Dreamcrusher · October 17, 2019 6:31PM

@toyz4geo said:
Joe 1 "Did you hear that the richest man in the world just died?"
Joe 2 "Really! How much did he leave behind?"
Joe 1 "All of it!"

Certainly points to ponder.

That conversation actually took place between a news reporter & John D. Rockefeller's accountant.

kiyote · October 17, 2019 9:32PM

My poor sister ended up with my grandmothers China set from late 1920s. It’s ridiculous how people used to eat. She has absolutely no use for it. I can’t imagine it’s worth much money and it doesn’t even have sentimental value because she had long stopped using it by the time his kids came along.

We also ended up with a steamer trunk full of Sanborn sterling silver items from the 1940s. Plates, Bowls, dishes, ashtrays, candlesticks, serving forks, candy bowls, water pitchers and a 76 Oz tray. We have no idea what to do with them other than just keep them in the family. Again, it’s really neat to look at but beyond a few pieces, like my mothers baby cup, I have no sentimental value for any of it. I think there’s about 900 ounces of the stuff.

If your kids have no interest in coin collecting your best bet would be to sell almost everything before you die and leave them a couple of nice BU Morgan dollars. I’d rather that happen then them get fleeced at a coin shop or hotel.

You can’t take it with you...Have you prepared for the inevitable?

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