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i continue to be baffled by pricing of cards
olb31
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1985 leaf clemens pop of around 50 sales for $900. Topps pop of around 325 sales for $400. so far so good. leaf ryan sales for $75 pop 55. topps sales for $160 pop 350. how does this work ? same scenarios pop wise totally opposite results.
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I’m sale-ing away.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, Dwight Evans, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
the Clemens demand comes from his rookie collectors. Where the Ryan demand comes from set builders. Those are generalities, but you could see people building the Topps set more than people building leaf sets. And more demand from Clemens rookie collectors, than demand from ryan master set collectors. Just my humble opinion.
Supply and demand.
Always more demand for rookie cards.
Nothing about supply really. It's all about what people want, demand.
Griffey rookie is a perfect example there's a HUGE supply and plenty of unopened product as well.
Yeah, but why is the leaf more for clemens than ryan? The 1985 leaf set is easier to build also, lower number of cards.
More people want to complete rookie runs of players. Demand exceeds supply of the 50 Clemens until the Clemens reaches $900. Very few people desire a Nolan Ryan leaf so at $75 supply and demand equalize. More people collect Topps so there is much higher demand for the Ryan Topps than Leaf. I would guess if the Clemens Topps had a population of only 50 it would sell for a few thousand.
Looking at the recent PWCC auctions, it looks like the entire hobby put its head in the sand
I think the people who are aware of what's going on are a small number. Even the ones who do know also have a lot invested and will just deal with the status quo.
Why are OPC cards from the 1960's usually less than the Topps?
More people want the Topps.
Simple, it doesn't make sense, but then again what does?
I knew a guy that had one of the best Ryan collections ever assembled. 5x over. Never recall seeing an ‘85 Leaf in that collection.
However I do remember him having a couple ‘85 Leaf Clemens.
But then again, he never made much sense either!
Reminds me of the "5 Minute University"
What is quite amazing for the items I collect is the disparity between 9’s and 10’s.
When selling, you cant even give away a 9, while the same in a 10 will sell for $40 to $75.
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
Of course it’s about supply. Surprised to hear you say that.
It really doesn't matter in the baseball card world, because it's not a commodity that You need. Cards are not corn or wheat or gasoline.
The Griffey rookie is a perfect example on one side of the equation, on the other is an auction I have had running for a while now;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/133187957941?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
This is a rare item. It has taken me years to find an 8. No demand for it even though there are only 3 that grade higher and 1 is in my set effectively making it only 2 higher.
If there is no demand it really doesn't matter how small the supply is, your item is worthless.
If there is a huge supply AND a huge demand the item is worth a lot.
Now as long as you have a demand, if you happen to have a limited supply, then you make the big money.
That's not the case in the OP's confusion, he thinks that the scarcer card should be worth more than it is.
In simpler terms... when it comes to baseball cards, supply has little to no correlation on price, it only affects demand (which has everything to do with price).
I would say that the first part is true, but that supply doesn't effect the demand of an item, but that demand affects the price and when you have a strong demand and a short supply, the supply/demand equation holds true, and the price increases.
This sounds familiar...
Arthur
You almost understood. When you have strong demand and short supply, that short supply further increases the demand... which will then bump up the price. If there's no demand to begin with, short supply isn't going to increase demand very much. Either way, supply has little to no direct correlation to price... it's secondary behind demand.
Let's not even get into price vs value.
I’m baffled why the OP is baffled. More people collect star players’ RCs than a base card from a star’s 18th season.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, Dwight Evans, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
I agree, I do to. But why would people pay triple for the 1985 topps ryan vs the leaf when the leaf card is much harder to find and in 10 there are around 300 less leaf 10's than Topps. Topps has been graded 7 times more 1600 to 275. There are more Topps 10's than the total number of leaf cards graded.
I completely understand, if there is no demand there is no value, even if there is only 1.
I listed a Killebrew card that was #3 of only three made. Beautiful card, his uniform number too!
Not much demand not much $
Because demand. This is like a monthly routine now. You take two cards -- one that has a low pop and one that has a much higher pop and ask why the higher pop card sells for more. The answer is demand. The answer is ALWAYS demand. I'm going to write "because demand" on a Post-It and put it on your computer screen when you're not home.
Look, I actually get where you're coming from. I'm drawn to true rarity which is one of the reasons I collected boxing cards for so many years. I could pick up cards that were either unique or at most had a few known examples for peanuts. That was because there was no demand. I didn't care though, I liked my true rarity. So I understand the sentiment behind your inquiries. But for the stuff you're asking about -- mainstream issues that get traded with regularly -- it just all boils down to demand.
Arthur
I agree, I do to. But why would people pay triple for the 1985 topps ryan vs the leaf when the leaf card is much harder to find and in 10 there are around 300 less leaf 10's than Topps. Topps has been graded 7 times more 1600 to 275. There are more Topps 10's than the total number of leaf cards graded.
Demand aka The Registry.
A lot folks like the basic Ryan run versus the Master. The simple run help creates even more demand in conjunction with the already existing flagship premium.
The ‘68 Topps is in much more demand than the ‘68 OPC. But the ‘68 OPC commands a higher price within the same grade because of the very limited supply.
I'm secretly hoping that ReggieCleveland develops a hatred for rarity someday. Only then, will I be able relieve him of his 1937 Globo Gum Joe Louis.
I feel the same way about Dpeck and Wrestlincardking, I would have liked to buy a nice Hogan or Andre card but those two bid on just about all of them! Over the last 10 years the prices have gone sky high.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I feel your pain.
In general OPC cards are undervalued when you consider just how few there are and how few there are graded 8 and above.
In 1968 PSA graded cards there are 291,000 cards (67,000 grade a 9 or a 10) and only 4,100 OPC, (925 in 9 and 10). OPC's should be A LOT more expensive than they are!
Are you going to get 67 times the price for a 9 or 10 OPC over a Topps with the same grade?
Or if it's something I want! ;-)
Nope. Because of what they were referring to above about demand.
I bet 50% of the collecting population does not even realize (or “care” might be a better word) that there are 4 variations of some of the ‘68s.
The demand isn't there to drive the price to a 67x mark up on the OPC’s even though the supply is uber scarce in comparison to the regular Topps run.
As many have said, on many of these similar threads, the answer is demand. People buy cards for different reasons. Set collectors, rookie collectors, player collectors, high end collectors, they all buy cards for different reasons. This is obviously going to skew what seems like reasonable pricing.
I've heard the arguments about players from the 70s and 80s that are "way better and not respected enough" compared to the Aaron Judges and Juan Sotos of the world yet their cards aren't very valuable. The reason: No one cares about them, and probably never will. The 89 UD Griffey was one of the most massively overproduced cards in history and PSA 10 examples continually get $400 a pop still. Why? Because people care about the card. Demand and pricing is never going to be scientific based on a baseball players stats, the pop report, etc. There's just too many factors that influence it.
Currently Collecting:
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No. Supply is always a factor, and always equal to demand. If 90% of the Upper Deck Griffeys were to disappear overnight, do people really think the price wouldn't go up?
Further, consider the demand for 10 Upper Deck Griffeys at $800. Very low to nonexistent as long as 10s are available all day long at $400. Were the supply of 10s at $400 to dry up, the demand for 10s at $800 would increase.
Absolutely. I agree with that. I'm not saying supply is not a factor but it's just not the main/biggest factor. Demand dynamics in the hobby seem to always exceed the supply dynamics.
Panini to this day churns out tons of cards, take a look at the prices for Prizm basketball just as a random example. Prizm silver parallels sell for more than some of the more scarce prizm parallels simply due to demand (talking 5x the supply) for what is effectively the same card. Hobby demand always seems to overcome the supply/scarcity aspect in many instances, even when it seems irrational to do so. But that's the market.
Currently Collecting:
Flickr: https://flickr.com/gp/184724292@N07/686763
this
The contents of my septic tank would disagree.
Not trying to be argumentative, but simply the best way I can put it.
Supply is meaningless without demand. Demand is meaningless without supply.
But that's NOT what we are talking about. In this hobby things just don't make sense a lot of the time.
There are many examples where a lack of supply does not translate to more value. However if the demand is there supply has much less meaning.
Several great examples have been shown.
So sad that you have no better way of expressing it.
I think some people on this board need to take an intro college level economics class. The level of ignorance displayed in some of these posts is staggering.
Well supply is there. Demand isnt. Just trying to give a clear and concise example where supply most certainly does not equal demand.
And maybe that factory in the outskirts of Detroit with pallets upon pallets of 1990 uncirculated Topps cards would have been a better example, but I did not think of it at the time. However, the principle is the same.
Perhaps I should have said "When setting a price.", but I had thought given the context of the discussion it was clear. When there is a hypothetical price where supply and demand are not equally important, no transaction will occur, and the price will be zero.
There is no accounting for taste and preference's. Most important thing I learned from economics.
So the answer seems to be supply and demand. So the answer is very few people want the 1985 Topps Clemens over the leaf card, but a whole lot of people want the 1985 Topps Nolan Ryan over his leaf card. So the public really want and likes the Topps Nolan Ryan (in fact the 1985 Topps card sales for more than the 1983 and 1984, it must have some intrinsic value that I am not aware of), but the Topps Rookie card of Clemens not so much, little or no interest.
There's such a thing as being "too rare." The item becomes obscure and most people don't even know about it. I've used the boxing cards analogy before. I can have a unique Jack Dempsey card and list it raw on eBay and chances are it will sell for around $40. If I get it slabbed and added to the PSA player registry and wait a few years while people try unsuccessfully to find one, I can end up selling it for $700.
Did the supply change? No. What changed? The item went form being obscure and unknown to identified and sought after. Supply is important but rarity alone does not equate to value.
Arthur
No.
The answer is completely, absolutely and totally demand. You just proved it yourself. In your above stated example the supply of the the examples given not only has NOTHING to do with the pricing, it actually can be the opposite! Because of demand.
This is not a classroom. Things don't make sense here. People buy what they want because they LIKE it. There are literally hundreds of examples of a "rarer" card being worth little or nothing and a "common" card costing a fortune.
One last example for you;
Mickey Mantle 1952 Topps vs 1951 Bowman. Topps card isn't even his rookie, but it's one of the "Holy Grails" of the hobby.
Populations of the card are similar. However there are 3 PSA 10 Topps and 1 PSA 10 Bowman.
Bowman $600,000.00 PSA 10
Topps $2,900,000.00 PSA 9 An owner of one of the 3 PSA 10 Mantles has reportedly turned down 10 Million.
Supply would say that the actual "rookie" card with only a single PSA 10 would be worth 20 times the Topps, not the other way around.
For the last time DEMAND BABY!
That’s funny. ROFLMAO.
Well.
There does seem to be an unlimited "supply" of bandwidth.
Tomi, in my opinion, has the best answer. Monkey see Monkey do. IF everyone pays $500 for an upper deck Griffey jr then that most be a good deal. Until someone or a couple of people pay $750 for the classic travel (just an example), then everyone will want the Classic Travel. Thus, if you are smart, start buying the 1985 leaf Nolan ryan psa 10's for $75 and list them for $200, with an explanation of how low the pop is compared to the topps that just sold for $160.
Hard to agree or disagree. People are funny.
Thus, if you are smart, start buying the 1985 leaf Nolan ryan psa 10's for $75 and list them for $200, with an explanation of how low the pop is compared to the topps that just sold for $160.
Buy them up, I can't wait to see how that works.