This happens to me all the time... Even DLRC cancels my order within a day of paying for a gem PCGS graded $1 Type 3 gold piece that went for a fraction of the cost. Same with other numerous sellers over the years. Their explanation... Coin got misplaced, lost, or was an error in listing ???
Thanks for the link coin22lover. I live in Arizona and it is good to know that lawsuits like this are allowed to go forward. I recently bought some sterling silver figurines on ebay for $400 that had the fineness markings 925. Before the purchase I asked the buyer about them, where they were from, age etcetera.
I bought them and as soon as I saw them in person, I could tell that they were not 925 sterling silver and I highly doubted they were silver at all. So me being an R&D engineering assistant, put my employment skills to work and did a few non-destructive tests on them. Sure enough, fake and on top of that, two of them also had 800 fineness markings.
I filed a not as described return notification and the seller contacted me and tried to assure me they were real and not to return them. I told him they are fake, I tested them, I am a research and development engineering assistant, my job is to test suspect items and I am well versed on the test methods I used so I know my results are accurate. Most importantly specific gravity was low even when accounting for air pockets due to crevasses and such. (tested 9.8 - 9.9 and sterling is in the range of 10.4) SEM-EDS showed that the elements of Cu, zinc and what probably was plating.
The seller begrudgingly accepted the return but then I looked at all their other items. a few of the sold items had the same style fineness marking. I want to get this seller off ebay. many people bought fake sterling silver not knowing its fake and without my experience, I would have been scammed too.
Blame the seller. Deal was done but he was the one who is ultimately at fault. I personally would never consider buying from him in the future either. JMHO
" Remember...I paid the sellers asking price...There is NO RIP OFF of the seller occurring here. My time and knowledge are valuable."
Exactly. Hence the buy it now mentioned in the original post no one mentioned in replying. To list it at a price he/she had originally wanted only to cancel afterwards. Yes one should have a number which they are comfortable with when buying. So too, must the seller. So the seller should be reprimanded in some manner for breach of contract.
@coinbuf said:
So your mad because you have lost out on ripping off a seller who may have listed something that he was unaware of (such as the dateless 16 qtr you posted about), perhaps you should hate yourself for attempting to steal a 1K coin for $8.00.
Is this a wind-up or do you truly believe that no one should ever accept a bargain when offered?
There is a vast difference between getting a bargain and taking advantage of someone, which is the goal of the op. This way of operating is exactly why coin dealers have gained the reputation of rip off artists and crooks in the eyes of many. In fact what the op is doing is no different than when a dealer has a customer walk into a retail store and offer pennies on the dollar, or switching coins as was related in another post here just today, you know the old ripping off the widow kind of stories.
This thread is highly comical to me, you have the op crying because his attempt to take advantage of someone was denied, and the lynch mob here flying out of the woodwork taking sides without knowing all the story. And of course then you add in the irony that every member of the lynch mob would do the very same thing as the seller did if they made this same mistake of listing a valuable coin which sold for pennies.
@coinbuf said:
So your mad because you have lost out on ripping off a seller who may have listed something that he was unaware of (such as the dateless 16 qtr you posted about), perhaps you should hate yourself for attempting to steal a 1K coin for $8.00.
Is this a wind-up or do you truly believe that no one should ever accept a bargain when offered?
There is a vast difference between getting a bargain and taking advantage of someone, which is the goal of the op. This way of operating is exactly why coin dealers have gained the reputation of rip off artists and crooks in the eyes of many. In fact what the op is doing is no different than when a dealer has a customer walk into a retail store and offer pennies on the dollar, or switching coins as was related in another post here just today, you know the old ripping off the widow kind of stories.
This thread is highly comical to me, you have the op crying because his attempt to take advantage of someone was denied, and the lynch mob here flying out of the woodwork taking sides without knowing all the story. And of course then you add in the irony that every member of the lynch mob would do the very same thing as the seller did if they made this same mistake of listing a valuable coin which sold for pennies.
Karma baby!
I guess you missed the bit about the OP accepting an offer made by the seller.
@coinbuf said:
So your mad because you have lost out on ripping off a seller who may have listed something that he was unaware of (such as the dateless 16 qtr you posted about), perhaps you should hate yourself for attempting to steal a 1K coin for $8.00.
Is this a wind-up or do you truly believe that no one should ever accept a bargain when offered?
There is a vast difference between getting a bargain and taking advantage of someone, which is the goal of the op. This way of operating is exactly why coin dealers have gained the reputation of rip off artists and crooks in the eyes of many. In fact what the op is doing is no different than when a dealer has a customer walk into a retail store and offer pennies on the dollar, or switching coins as was related in another post here just today, you know the old ripping off the widow kind of stories.
This thread is highly comical to me, you have the op crying because his attempt to take advantage of someone was denied, and the lynch mob here flying out of the woodwork taking sides without knowing all the story. And of course then you add in the irony that every member of the lynch mob would do the very same thing as the seller did if they made this same mistake of listing a valuable coin which sold for pennies.
Karma baby!
No Karma...Items were offered as a BUY IT NOW on EBAY...where as the price is set by THE SELLER...I merely purchased and paid the seller full asking price...it was the SELLER that broke the deal....It is NOT up to me to educate the seller...the seller has plenty of time from the comfort of their living room to do the necessary research to properly price a coin.
There just seems to be so many bleeding hearts here that want to portray a greedy seller that cancels a sale after the fact as a poor uninformed seller being ripped off by the mean opportunist....All I have to say is....either the seller is too stupid or too lazy to just Google their coins BEFORE listing them...its not hard....I research BEFORE I make a purchase...it takes lots of hard work to make a buck...More people need to just put in the time & effort.
@coinbuf said:
So your mad because you have lost out on ripping off a seller who may have listed something that he was unaware of (such as the dateless 16 qtr you posted about), perhaps you should hate yourself for attempting to steal a 1K coin for $8.00.
Is this a wind-up or do you truly believe that no one should ever accept a bargain when offered?
There is a vast difference between getting a bargain and taking advantage of someone, which is the goal of the op. This way of operating is exactly why coin dealers have gained the reputation of rip off artists and crooks in the eyes of many. In fact what the op is doing is no different than when a dealer has a customer walk into a retail store and offer pennies on the dollar, or switching coins as was related in another post here just today, you know the old ripping off the widow kind of stories.
This thread is highly comical to me, you have the op crying because his attempt to take advantage of someone was denied, and the lynch mob here flying out of the woodwork taking sides without knowing all the story. And of course then you add in the irony that every member of the lynch mob would do the very same thing as the seller did if they made this same mistake of listing a valuable coin which sold for pennies.
Karma baby!
I would not. I scored a lot of stamps at a $100 loss on a $300 sale because the listing mistake was mine. Don't paint with too broad a brush.
I've completed 65000 ebay transactions and never canceled a sale to cover a mistake or a loss.
@coinbuf said:
So your mad because you have lost out on ripping off a seller who may have listed something that he was unaware of (such as the dateless 16 qtr you posted about), perhaps you should hate yourself for attempting to steal a 1K coin for $8.00.
Is this a wind-up or do you truly believe that no one should ever accept a bargain when offered?
There is a vast difference between getting a bargain and taking advantage of someone, which is the goal of the op. This way of operating is exactly why coin dealers have gained the reputation of rip off artists and crooks in the eyes of many. In fact what the op is doing is no different than when a dealer has a customer walk into a retail store and offer pennies on the dollar, or switching coins as was related in another post here just today, you know the old ripping off the widow kind of stories.
This thread is highly comical to me, you have the op crying because his attempt to take advantage of someone was denied, and the lynch mob here flying out of the woodwork taking sides without knowing all the story. And of course then you add in the irony that every member of the lynch mob would do the very same thing as the seller did if they made this same mistake of listing a valuable coin which sold for pennies.
Karma baby!
No Karma...Items were offered as a BUY IT NOW on EBAY...where as the price is set by THE SELLER...I merely purchased and paid the seller full asking price...it was the SELLER that broke the deal....It is NOT up to me to educate the seller...the seller has plenty of time from the comfort of their living room to do the necessary research to properly price a coin.
There just seems to be so many bleeding hearts here that want to portray a greedy seller that cancels a sale after the fact as a poor uninformed seller being ripped off by the mean opportunist....All I have to say is....either the seller is too stupid or too lazy to just Google their coins BEFORE listing them...its not hard....I research BEFORE I make a purchase...it takes lots of hard work to make a buck...More people need to just put in the time & effort.
Most people seem to be blaming the seller, including me. The one's that aren't are bordering on trolling.
@TroyW said:
Thanks for the link coin22lover. I live in Arizona and it is good to know that lawsuits like this are allowed to go forward. I recently bought some sterling silver figurines on ebay for $400 that had the fineness markings 925. Before the purchase I asked the buyer about them, where they were from, age etcetera.
I bought them and as soon as I saw them in person, I could tell that they were not 925 sterling silver and I highly doubted they were silver at all. So me being an R&D engineering assistant, put my employment skills to work and did a few non-destructive tests on them. Sure enough, fake and on top of that, two of them also had 800 fineness markings.
I filed a not as described return notification and the seller contacted me and tried to assure me they were real and not to return them. I told him they are fake, I tested them, I am a research and development engineering assistant, my job is to test suspect items and I am well versed on the test methods I used so I know my results are accurate. Most importantly specific gravity was low even when accounting for air pockets due to crevasses and such. (tested 9.8 - 9.9 and sterling is in the range of 10.4) SEM-EDS showed that the elements of Cu, zinc and what probably was plating.
The seller begrudgingly accepted the return but then I looked at all their other items. a few of the sold items had the same style fineness marking. I want to get this seller off ebay. many people bought fake sterling silver not knowing its fake and without my experience, I would have been scammed too.
Is there anything that can be done for this seller?
@TroyW said:
Thanks for the link coin22lover. I live in Arizona and it is good to know that lawsuits like this are allowed to go forward. I recently bought some sterling silver figurines on ebay for $400 that had the fineness markings 925. Before the purchase I asked the buyer about them, where they were from, age etcetera.
I bought them and as soon as I saw them in person, I could tell that they were not 925 sterling silver and I highly doubted they were silver at all. So me being an R&D engineering assistant, put my employment skills to work and did a few non-destructive tests on them. Sure enough, fake and on top of that, two of them also had 800 fineness markings.
I filed a not as described return notification and the seller contacted me and tried to assure me they were real and not to return them. I told him they are fake, I tested them, I am a research and development engineering assistant, my job is to test suspect items and I am well versed on the test methods I used so I know my results are accurate. Most importantly specific gravity was low even when accounting for air pockets due to crevasses and such. (tested 9.8 - 9.9 and sterling is in the range of 10.4) SEM-EDS showed that the elements of Cu, zinc and what probably was plating.
The seller begrudgingly accepted the return but then I looked at all their other items. a few of the sold items had the same style fineness marking. I want to get this seller off ebay. many people bought fake sterling silver not knowing its fake and without my experience, I would have been scammed too.
Is there anything that can be done for this seller?
First you need to figure out what state laws apply. Then you need to want to prove a point that will cost you more time, effort, and probably money than you lost.
Sometimes, the best strategy is to just boycott the seller and move on.
@TroyW said:
Thanks for the link coin22lover. I live in Arizona and it is good to know that lawsuits like this are allowed to go forward. I recently bought some sterling silver figurines on ebay for $400 that had the fineness markings 925. Before the purchase I asked the buyer about them, where they were from, age etcetera.
I bought them and as soon as I saw them in person, I could tell that they were not 925 sterling silver and I highly doubted they were silver at all. So me being an R&D engineering assistant, put my employment skills to work and did a few non-destructive tests on them. Sure enough, fake and on top of that, two of them also had 800 fineness markings.
I filed a not as described return notification and the seller contacted me and tried to assure me they were real and not to return them. I told him they are fake, I tested them, I am a research and development engineering assistant, my job is to test suspect items and I am well versed on the test methods I used so I know my results are accurate. Most importantly specific gravity was low even when accounting for air pockets due to crevasses and such. (tested 9.8 - 9.9 and sterling is in the range of 10.4) SEM-EDS showed that the elements of Cu, zinc and what probably was plating.
The seller begrudgingly accepted the return but then I looked at all their other items. a few of the sold items had the same style fineness marking. I want to get this seller off ebay. many people bought fake sterling silver not knowing its fake and without my experience, I would have been scammed too.
Is there anything that can be done for this seller?
First you need to figure out what state laws apply. Then you need to want to prove a point that will cost you more time, effort, and probably money than you lost.
Sometimes, the best strategy is to just boycott the seller and move on.
For any individual, it may be more convenient to walk away, but in aggregate, I wonder how much harm it's doing to the hobby. I wonder if this is one elephant in the living from regarding growth or decreased interest in our hobby? If sellers of fakes are left to sell to others, people may want to spend their time elsewhere?
Sometimes, the best strategy is to just boycott the seller and move on.
For any individual, it may be more convenient to walk away, but in aggregate, I wonder how much harm it's doing to the hobby. I wonder if this is one elephant in the living from regarding growth or decreased interest in our hobby? If sellers of fakes are left to sell to others, people may want to spend their time elsewhere?
This wasn't a seller of fakes, it was a seller who reneged. But I understand your point. The question is: how many thousands of dollars do you want to spend hoping to win a judgment that you likely can't even collect?
If you aren't in the same jurisdiction, you might have to travel to file. Even if you can file electronically, you'd have to travel for the hearing. Then, in all likelihood, the seller doesn't show for the first hearing so you might have to go for a second hearing before the judge issues a default judgment in your name.
Now, you've got to try and collect. He likely won't pay willingly. Does he have an asset that you can attach? If he's judgment proof, after all that time you will have nothing but a Pyrrhic victory that changes no one's behavior, including the person you "won" against.
Most people seem to be blaming the seller, including me. The one's that aren't are bordering on trolling.
Just because someone has a dissenting opinion does not equal trolling lol, trust me my time is far to valuable to waste it trolling the mob here. I have never said that the seller in the op's case is the good guy, (you made that assumption on your own) obviously he breached his contract and that is wrong. I'm saying simply that if you choose to act as the op does (by trying to take advantage of people just because they possibly may have made a simple mistake) and then cry when you fail to do so you wont get any sympathy from me. You dealers like to use the term "there is no santa claus in numismatics", well that cuts both ways.
Most people seem to be blaming the seller, including me. The one's that aren't are bordering on trolling.
Just because someone has a dissenting opinion does not equal trolling lol, trust me my time is far to valuable to waste it trolling the mob here. I have never said that the seller in the op's case is the good guy, (you made that assumption on your own) obviously he breached his contract and that is wrong. I'm saying simply that if you choose to act as the op does (by trying to take advantage of people just because they possibly may have made a simple mistake) and then cry when you fail to do so you wont get any sympathy from me. You dealers like to use the term "there is no santa claus in numismatics", well that cuts both ways.
It is, perhaps, a nuanced question. For an auction, pulling it would definitely be wrong in most states. When the gavel strikes, a contract is written. I don't know, off hand, what the law says about pricing errors in stores. If I go to Walmart and they have TVs marked $200 instead of $500, do they have to sell them to me at that price? Probably not. I still think the seller should carry through on the deal - and I say that as one who has.
Now, if you want to argue that the seller has the legal right to terminate the transaction, you may be right. Where you border on trolling is when you accuse the op of doing wrong. If I see $200 TVs at Walmart that I know I could sell for more, would I fill my cart? Yup. Would I be mad if Walmart recognized their error and refused to sell them at that price. No. I THINK - I don't know - that no sales contract is forged in a retail establishment until payment is made.
So, I guess I half agree with you. But this scenario is slightly different than the one presented.
Comments
I needed a cigarette after that!
This happens to me all the time... Even DLRC cancels my order within a day of paying for a gem PCGS graded $1 Type 3 gold piece that went for a fraction of the cost. Same with other numerous sellers over the years. Their explanation... Coin got misplaced, lost, or was an error in listing ???
Thanks for the link coin22lover. I live in Arizona and it is good to know that lawsuits like this are allowed to go forward. I recently bought some sterling silver figurines on ebay for $400 that had the fineness markings 925. Before the purchase I asked the buyer about them, where they were from, age etcetera.
I bought them and as soon as I saw them in person, I could tell that they were not 925 sterling silver and I highly doubted they were silver at all. So me being an R&D engineering assistant, put my employment skills to work and did a few non-destructive tests on them. Sure enough, fake and on top of that, two of them also had 800 fineness markings.
I filed a not as described return notification and the seller contacted me and tried to assure me they were real and not to return them. I told him they are fake, I tested them, I am a research and development engineering assistant, my job is to test suspect items and I am well versed on the test methods I used so I know my results are accurate. Most importantly specific gravity was low even when accounting for air pockets due to crevasses and such. (tested 9.8 - 9.9 and sterling is in the range of 10.4) SEM-EDS showed that the elements of Cu, zinc and what probably was plating.
The seller begrudgingly accepted the return but then I looked at all their other items. a few of the sold items had the same style fineness marking. I want to get this seller off ebay. many people bought fake sterling silver not knowing its fake and without my experience, I would have been scammed too.
Blame the seller. Deal was done but he was the one who is ultimately at fault. I personally would never consider buying from him in the future either. JMHO
" Remember...I paid the sellers asking price...There is NO RIP OFF of the seller occurring here. My time and knowledge are valuable."
Exactly. Hence the buy it now mentioned in the original post no one mentioned in replying. To list it at a price he/she had originally wanted only to cancel afterwards. Yes one should have a number which they are comfortable with when buying. So too, must the seller. So the seller should be reprimanded in some manner for breach of contract.
There is a vast difference between getting a bargain and taking advantage of someone, which is the goal of the op. This way of operating is exactly why coin dealers have gained the reputation of rip off artists and crooks in the eyes of many. In fact what the op is doing is no different than when a dealer has a customer walk into a retail store and offer pennies on the dollar, or switching coins as was related in another post here just today, you know the old ripping off the widow kind of stories.
This thread is highly comical to me, you have the op crying because his attempt to take advantage of someone was denied, and the lynch mob here flying out of the woodwork taking sides without knowing all the story. And of course then you add in the irony that every member of the lynch mob would do the very same thing as the seller did if they made this same mistake of listing a valuable coin which sold for pennies.
Karma baby!
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I guess you missed the bit about the OP accepting an offer made by the seller.
Smitten with DBLCs.
No Karma...Items were offered as a BUY IT NOW on EBAY...where as the price is set by THE SELLER...I merely purchased and paid the seller full asking price...it was the SELLER that broke the deal....It is NOT up to me to educate the seller...the seller has plenty of time from the comfort of their living room to do the necessary research to properly price a coin.
There just seems to be so many bleeding hearts here that want to portray a greedy seller that cancels a sale after the fact as a poor uninformed seller being ripped off by the mean opportunist....All I have to say is....either the seller is too stupid or too lazy to just Google their coins BEFORE listing them...its not hard....I research BEFORE I make a purchase...it takes lots of hard work to make a buck...More people need to just put in the time & effort.
I would not. I scored a lot of stamps at a $100 loss on a $300 sale because the listing mistake was mine. Don't paint with too broad a brush.
I've completed 65000 ebay transactions and never canceled a sale to cover a mistake or a loss.
Most people seem to be blaming the seller, including me. The one's that aren't are bordering on trolling.
Is there anything that can be done for this seller?
First you need to figure out what state laws apply. Then you need to want to prove a point that will cost you more time, effort, and probably money than you lost.
Sometimes, the best strategy is to just boycott the seller and move on.
For any individual, it may be more convenient to walk away, but in aggregate, I wonder how much harm it's doing to the hobby. I wonder if this is one elephant in the living from regarding growth or decreased interest in our hobby? If sellers of fakes are left to sell to others, people may want to spend their time elsewhere?
This wasn't a seller of fakes, it was a seller who reneged. But I understand your point. The question is: how many thousands of dollars do you want to spend hoping to win a judgment that you likely can't even collect?
If you aren't in the same jurisdiction, you might have to travel to file. Even if you can file electronically, you'd have to travel for the hearing. Then, in all likelihood, the seller doesn't show for the first hearing so you might have to go for a second hearing before the judge issues a default judgment in your name.
Now, you've got to try and collect. He likely won't pay willingly. Does he have an asset that you can attach? If he's judgment proof, after all that time you will have nothing but a Pyrrhic victory that changes no one's behavior, including the person you "won" against.
Life is a box of Chocolates and you just don't know what you gonna get
Learnt and live on to the next experience
Just because someone has a dissenting opinion does not equal trolling lol, trust me my time is far to valuable to waste it trolling the mob here.
I have never said that the seller in the op's case is the good guy, (you made that assumption on your own) obviously he breached his contract and that is wrong. I'm saying simply that if you choose to act as the op does (by trying to take advantage of people just because they possibly may have made a simple mistake) and then cry when you fail to do so you wont get any sympathy from me. You dealers like to use the term "there is no santa claus in numismatics", well that cuts both ways.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
It is, perhaps, a nuanced question. For an auction, pulling it would definitely be wrong in most states. When the gavel strikes, a contract is written. I don't know, off hand, what the law says about pricing errors in stores. If I go to Walmart and they have TVs marked $200 instead of $500, do they have to sell them to me at that price? Probably not. I still think the seller should carry through on the deal - and I say that as one who has.
Now, if you want to argue that the seller has the legal right to terminate the transaction, you may be right. Where you border on trolling is when you accuse the op of doing wrong. If I see $200 TVs at Walmart that I know I could sell for more, would I fill my cart? Yup. Would I be mad if Walmart recognized their error and refused to sell them at that price. No. I THINK - I don't know - that no sales contract is forged in a retail establishment until payment is made.
So, I guess I half agree with you. But this scenario is slightly different than the one presented.