How much do the hairlines on this coin affect it's grade?

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Insider2
Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

This is a common occurrence. A "gem+++" coin with a patch of hairlines that are very easy to miss until the coin is tipped and rotated into a specific position to the light source.

How much should this detract from the coin's grade? Do to think this is enough of a defect to "Detail" the coin?

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  • 1630Boston
    1630Boston Posts: 14,157 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    No expert here, but it 'should' affect the grade.

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  • Walkerguy21D
    Walkerguy21D Posts: 12,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    If the rest of the coin is problem free with decent luster (gem+++, as stated), I could see it getting a 62 grade.

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  • TwoSides2aCoin
    TwoSides2aCoin Posts: 45,217 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Problems are there, at that angle. That's enough to affect the coin's gradeability

  • asheland
    asheland Posts: 24,545 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Details.

    My YouTube Channel

  • Goldminers
    Goldminers Posts: 4,414 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019 10:28AM
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    I have no idea what that Washington would grade, maybe 2-3 grades lower than without?

    My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set

  • Swampboy
    Swampboy Posts: 13,257 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    details

    "Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso

  • grip
    grip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Is that a clip?

  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Goldminers said:
    I have no idea what that Washington would grade, maybe 2-3 grades lower than without?

    What about the "hairlines?" that are all over the 2019 Liberty 2.5 ounce enhanced finish silver medals "as struck"?

    The one I have is still an SP70 even with significant scuffing, whizzing, brushing, whatever, on sections of the medal including large sections of the rims, that look more like post mint damage, than an enhanced finish, but it seems they are not.

    First off, Bringing another coin to this thread is very detracting and may confuse others. What I wish you would do is to image the coin you have that is: "..an SP70 even with significant scuffing, whizzing, brushing, whatever, on sections of the medal including large sections of the rims, that look more like post mint damage..." in a NEW DISCUSSION so we can comment about what you think you see. THANKS!

  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019 10:22AM
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    @grip said:
    Is that a clip?

    No. The only way to image the hairlines was to cock the coin up at a high angle while trying to hold it steady. You a seeing a finger covering part of my coin.

  • Kove
    Kove Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭✭
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    Not severe enough to body bag, but would probably take a 3 grade hit, like 66 to 63.

  • Type2
    Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    BB will not grade they are not hair lines they are scratch's. They will say Counting wheel scratch's dang and It looked good to.



    Hoard the keys.
  • tommy44
    tommy44 Posts: 2,347 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It would most likely end up in a "details surface hairlines" slab and those don't show a numerical grade. I'd guess Unc Details.

    it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

  • crazyhounddog
    crazyhounddog Posts: 14,250 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It would bodybag, no question. If it’s hairlines from cleaning or, wiping as some say, the coin will not numerically grade. I’m sure you know the difference between die polishing lines and cleaning hairlines cause some folks don’t.

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • crazyhounddog
    crazyhounddog Posts: 14,250 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Can you see what they were trying to clean? Like a blemish or a spot? I find it kinda strange the only the motif has lines and the fields don’t.

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • slider23
    slider23 Posts: 681 ✭✭✭✭
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    If I was the submitter, it details- cleaned. If I am a buyer and the coin is straight graded - pass. I do not like the net straight grade.

  • FranklinHalfAddict
    FranklinHalfAddict Posts: 697 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Details. Wheel mark

  • WildIdea
    WildIdea Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Washie readily avail in MS, gets details Maybe in bust coinage or something older gets some leniency on grade with a wipe like that.

  • cucamongacoin
    cucamongacoin Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭
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    agree with the wheel damage assessment

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  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    if it is as bad as it looks in the photo, I'd details grade it.

    That said, I've seen some straight grades but I never know whether it is because the cluster of hairlines was "tolerated as market acceptable" or simply "missed completely".

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • ReadyFireAim
    ReadyFireAim Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Body bag

    My Saint Set

  • lkenefic
    lkenefic Posts: 9,518 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Wow... I can see this in a bodybag, details graded, or holder ed at 63... all depending on the angle of light when the reviewer got the coin, or how much he had to drink the night before.

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  • Namvet69
    Namvet69 Posts: 9,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It's not a Wawa parking lot coin but there's too many scratches for me. Peace Roy

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  • lkeigwin
    lkeigwin Posts: 16,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Details. Doesn't matter if they only appear at certain angles. It should not straight-grade.
    Lance.

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  • Baley
    Baley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Unc. Details, Wiped, net 45.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • OldIndianNutKase
    OldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    MS61-62. Hairlines on the devices are more significant than in the fields, but they are probably there as well.

  • morgandollar1878
    morgandollar1878 Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Unc details - wheel mark

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  • zas107
    zas107 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭
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    Details grade IMO>

  • Fairlaneman
    Fairlaneman Posts: 10,428 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    You should change your thread title. Those are not hairlines or slide marks. Coin has been lightly cleaned and is junk box material.

    Ken

  • MasonG
    MasonG Posts: 7,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    PCGS grading standards for MS60 says "many heavy marks or hairlines". Hairlines are allowed up to MS66.

  • ColonelJessup
    ColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Counting wheel > @morgandollar1878 said:

    Unc details - wheel mark

    Not a grade, but a eulogy

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Based on the picture, I would say it would 'details'....could be a wheel mark or some other abrasive encounter just affecting the raised design. Cheers, RickO

  • REALGATOR
    REALGATOR Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I've had much less offensive lines get Details - Cleaned: Only seen under a lamp at a certain angle. PCGS explains this in their video about Details grades.
    I'm not a fan, its like your coin goes to prison for life for jaywalking.

  • Broadstruck
    Broadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The counter wheel marks as seen in the OP usually send a GEM coin into a MS62 holder.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • georgiacop50
    georgiacop50 Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭✭
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    At LEAST a 2 point deduction and 50/50 chance of a bodybag.

  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I'll try to agree/disagree and post to this discussion later today - just in case more members add to the thread.

  • Baley
    Baley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It is not worthless
    Just worth less, we can see now
    Than if no hairlines

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • crazyhounddog
    crazyhounddog Posts: 14,250 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Where’s the wheel mark? No matter how hard I look at the OP’s coin I don’t see any evidence of a wheel mark. Am I going blind?

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • Baley
    Baley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Most folks aren't saying someone cleaned it, but instead a hard rubber (or something) wheel in a coin counting and or rolling machine rubbed and left those parallel hairlines on the highpoints

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @REALGATOR said:
    I've had much less offensive lines get Details - Cleaned: Only seen under a lamp at a certain angle. PCGS explains this in their video about Details grades.
    I'm not a fan, its like your coin goes to prison for life for jaywalking.

    Another image of the same coin:

    @Fairlaneman said:
    You should change your thread title. Those are not hairlines or slide marks. Coin has been lightly cleaned and is junk box material.

    Ken

    NOPE. I've had it in hand. 100% original coin. Reverse is MS-69 if you take the time to find one tiny little nick.

    @FranklinHalfAddict said:
    Details. Wheel mark

    NOPE! Wheel marks are much more severe.

    @Namvet69 said:
    It's not a Wawa parking lot coin but there's too many scratches+ for me. Peace Roy

    There is a big difference between a hairline and a scratch. Note they practically disappear in different light.

  • ColonelJessup
    ColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Skip, you want to screw around and sandbag everybody when you pull a second picture of the same coin out of your hat that demonstrates what might only be visible under different light at a different angle? That's not Socratic, just perverse. And you know it. >:)

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • JGRC
    JGRC Posts: 33 ✭✭✭
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    I think these are marks were on the planchet before the coin was struck. The force of the strike was not enough to flatten all of the marks. I have seen similar marks on zinc Lincoln cents and they have not graded higher than MS67.

  • Type2
    Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    No you can see the skid mark on his neck. Trust me I've tried but its your $$$ not worth it, just find anther one with no problem's. Have fun looking but remember if you get it for melt good go for it but if you are paying a premium pass and move on to the next one.



    Hoard the keys.
  • WaterSport
    WaterSport Posts: 7,064 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019 6:05PM
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    Here is MHO. These are not production marks nor do I consider them damage. They are worth a grade less. I would call these "Hairlines" as very light scratches commonly made or caused by the sliding plastic windows found in Whitman and other folders. Same goes for cabinet friction as I consider them one in the same.

    WS

    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • Coinscratch
    Coinscratch Posts: 11,086 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @JGRC said:
    I think these are marks were on the planchet before the coin was struck. The force of the strike was not enough to flatten all of the marks. I have seen similar marks on zinc Lincoln cents and they have not graded higher than MS67.

    This one has lines that appear to be etched across Lincolns face but, I thought it was dust/residue from sitting in mint set??
    It graded MS68 shortly before PL came out - It contrasts at angles, note the shadowing on shoulder.

  • Coinscratch
    Coinscratch Posts: 11,086 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Which by the way was the OP's advice to send in - Thanks again! @Insider2

  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @JGRC said:
    I think these are marks were on the planchet before the coin was struck. The force of the strike was not enough to flatten all of the marks. I have seen similar marks on zinc Lincoln cents and they have not graded higher than MS67.

    Nope. Most of the time, "lines" left on a planchet resulted from adjustment marks, draw bars, or worn finishing rollers. These things are vary rarely seen on most "modern coins" except on Lincolns where the strike leaves a "pinkish- flat" spot. I don't know the specific cause of these mostly micro lines.

    Most of the marks on the other denominations of modern coins are also seen on vintage examples. They come in the form of tiny (usually) hits from the planchet that did not get struck out.

  • privatecoin
    privatecoin Posts: 3,853 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Well marks or not it would look great in an album....

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

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