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What working a Coin Shop retail counter teaches me.

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  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    When there is considerable upside, I’m Ok with essentially breaking even in the event that the upside isn’t realized.

    Makes sense. Your example suggested you'd pay extra in the event the coin graded higher. How much extra?

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 14,383 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019 11:34AM

    @MasonG said:

    @MFeld said:
    When there is considerable upside, I’m Ok with essentially breaking even in the event that the upside isn’t realized.

    Makes sense. Your example suggested you'd pay extra in the event the coin graded higher. How much extra?

    It’s been many years since I’ve been in such a situation and it would depend upon what I thought the chances were of grade X (or less) vs. grade X+1. But my guess is that I’d offer approximately (edited to) 50%-65% of the ($3000) upside to the seller.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019 12:14PM

    But on the flip side of this 95% of my customers listen

    I would say that 95% is a good starting point to figure how many of our customers are "problem" free. in retrospect, the day I posted about is most likely just one where several of those problems all showed up. to those others who have hinted that our "customer service" is lacking and we probably suffer as a result I will say this: we get enough repeat and word of mouth walk-ins to let us know we are doing OK and don't need to change.

    the "problem" customers who always wait till they get close to the door to flap their jaw and "MF" us are welcomed to never return. as a matter of fact, a few have come back at a later date and we asked them to leave. we probably don't want their friends and relatives to come in, either, since there's a high probability they are looking for trouble. like tends to befriend like.

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019 12:45PM

    @CaptHenway said:

    After that I would sort them in my head, do the math and say "I'll pay you $495 (or whatever) for the lot."

    My first time meeting a client that was selling his coins in person, I started by saying, I offer you this for this and that for that and it quickly became apparent that would not work.

    I then did some quick math and said I will offer you $XXX.00 for those 20 or so coins that I had picked out. This approach worked out.

  • oldabeintxoldabeintx Posts: 2,318 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Keets I did retail as a young man. I really liked dealing with people, but the 5% ruined it for me. Somewhat OT Cell phones are both a boon and a scourge, as is the internet.

  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:

    @stman said:
    Sounds like some ol’ codgers need to get into something else, retire, or stay retired. :)

    Thank you for sharing!

    Anytime for you. Always nice to hear you whine how much you hate the public.

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,557 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stman said:

    @CaptHenway said:

    @stman said:
    Sounds like some ol’ codgers need to get into something else, retire, or stay retired. :)

    Thank you for sharing!

    Anytime for you. Always nice to hear you whine how much you hate the public.

    Always sad to hear you whine about how much you hate all dealers!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    thank you Doctor Feelgood. what's wrong, did eat a sour apple or something? :p

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,563 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @Larrob37 said:
    Question is as a customer what can I expect a honest dealer to pay. Say I have a pcgs coin valued at $100.00 in their price guide. What is a reasonable amount I should receive for that coin

    Part of the answer will be based upon the level at what such coins are actually trading. If they are trading at $100, I think a fair offer would be in the $80-$85 range. Others might disagree.

    I agree. I might even stretch to $90 depending on what it is.

    I don't know why some A would give you an LOL for that.

  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When have I said I hate all dealers? Have never said I hate dealers

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,653 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is simply not possible to manage expectations as well as supply instant gratification in the new age of misinformation.

    Best wishes Keets... It's not always fun in the trenches.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Keets trying to get me going. You really don’t exist to me so.back off and the other guy

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,563 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @MasonG said:

    @MFeld said:
    If you, as a buyer, are convinced that it will grade either X (making it worth $2000) or X+1 (making it worth $5000), how much do you offer? I think the fairest thing to do is offer roughly $1900 and make an agreement with the seller that If the coin grades x+1 or higher, you will pay extra.

    After grading fees and shipping, that would mean paying $1950 or so for a coin that retails for $2000 if it grades X. Aside from bullion, are there any buyers who work on that sort of margin?

    Usually, not on purpose. 😉 But in my example, the coin could have graded out to be worth $5000. When there is considerable upside, I’m Ok with essentially breaking even in the event that the upside isn’t realized.

    @MasonG, you've got to think like a dealer with volume. As a collector, it might be a one time purchase and you are afraid to lose money on it. As a dealer, you are going to do hundreds of these buys per year. So if you break even on a few but win on a few, the year turns out just fine.

    A similar argument has come up over eBay return shipping wiping out your profit on a coin. Yup, it sure can. As could the occasional fraudulent return. I once had someone polish an AU Liberty nickel with a brillo pad to try and remove a dark spot and then send it back SNAD at my expense. I had to eat the loss. But your business isn't defined by a single transaction.

    The same thing is true with raw coins that you aren't 100% sure are authentic. You will usually buy them at a discount, but not zero. Every now and then you get stuck with a coin worth $0. But, you are (hopefully) right more than you are wrong and the wins outnumber the losers. Every dealer I know has a collection of mistakes, it's part of doing business.

  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    :)

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hi dig the archives fellas Obviously you have nothing else to do but hate collectors. What I see on here is dealers with class don’t come on here spouting what you do.

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • JimWJimW Posts: 570 ✭✭✭✭

    @oldabeintx said:
    Keets I did retail as a young man. I really liked dealing with people, but the 5% ruined it for me. Somewhat OT Cell phones are both a boon and a scourge, as is the internet.

    I used to be a people person, but people ruined it for me :)

    Successful BST Transactions: erwindoc, VTchaser, moursund, robkool, RelicKING, Herb_T, Meltdown, ElmerFusterpuck, airplanenut

  • oldabeintxoldabeintx Posts: 2,318 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JimW said:

    @oldabeintx said:
    Keets I did retail as a young man. I really liked dealing with people, but the 5% ruined it for me. Somewhat OT Cell phones are both a boon and a scourge, as is the internet.

    I used to be a people person, but people ruined it for me :)

    Hey, I'm still a people person, but now I get to choose the persons with whom to...oh, forget it.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019 3:02PM

    When have I said I hate all dealers? Have never said I hate dealers

    you now visit this place every year or so, drop in out of the blue and always, always, always have something NEGATIVE to add that usually mentions that dealers are inherently bad and the enemy of collectors. you've been riding me like Zorro ever since I started to work in a shop, you seem to need me to be a coin-dealer-enemy or something. it's crazy, so why not just piss-off and stay away again for a few years.

    you were always a negative guy but seemed to have good insight. that's evaporated, and the Debbie-Downer is all that's left.

    and remember, you came in and decided to swing at me. B)

  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Now it’s ok to reveal personal information on here. Stay classy

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    who revealed any personal information?? yeah, and keep deflecting from the truth.

  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ;)

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You seem to feel you own the board and using my name. Something else I never have done. Stay classy :)

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I own nothing here, you're speaking things that just aren't true, your forte as of late.

  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019 2:27PM

    I did post a couple nice coins recently Nothing said about grade cac and they went smoothly you missed them. Have a nice Holiday keets. You’re alright. Thanks

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see you still feel it’s ok to post personal information. Stay classy
    You want to stand off whether you edit your post. You will. I

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • oldstandardoldstandard Posts: 387 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019 2:53PM

    @MFeld said:

    @Larrob37 said:
    Question is as a customer what can I expect a honest dealer to pay. Say I have a pcgs coin valued at $100.00 in their price guide. What is a reasonable amount I should receive for that coin

    Part of the answer will be based upon the level at what such coins are actually trading. If they are trading at $100, I think a fair offer would be in the $80-$85 range. Others might disagree.

    >
    I had buyer at my table buying offering at 30 to 40 percent back due to the current market So I would agree 20 percent would be a better offer as suggested but it comes down to the coin I am glad I did not accept the fair offer I sold it for 80% percent over bid due to the eye appeal and color.

  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019 3:46PM

    “so why not just piss-off and stay away again for a few years. “

    Stay classy keets. Oh Have a great rest of the day. 😎

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @fluffy155 said:

    @ReadyFireAim said:
    Have you ever walked into a shop pretending you have no knowlege about a valuable coin that you want to sell.
    I've thought about trying it but I don't trust myself not to get angry.

    Yes. A few years ago I moved to a new area and took a few pcgs and ngc pieces worth about $7000 greysheet bid into an LCS, claimed they were left to me. Was offered $1400. To be fair he seemed to be a lower-end dealer, but still.

    My belief is that if, for whatever reason, a potential buyer can’t or isn’t willing to offer a fair price, it’s better to just let the seller know that.

    Even better, the seller can say "I'm looking to get $X for these. Are you interested?"

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    @MasonG, you've got to think like a dealer with volume. As a collector, it might be a one time purchase and you are afraid to lose money on it. As a dealer, you are going to do hundreds of these buys per year. So if you break even on a few but win on a few, the year turns out just fine.

    That makes sense, but in Mark's scenario, he pays more for the wins.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,563 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    @MasonG, you've got to think like a dealer with volume. As a collector, it might be a one time purchase and you are afraid to lose money on it. As a dealer, you are going to do hundreds of these buys per year. So if you break even on a few but win on a few, the year turns out just fine.

    That makes sense, but in Mark's scenario, he pays more for the wins.

    Yes, sometimes if there's a huge spread you offer to split. But you are still splitting a BIG WIN, so that's guaranteed money.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,563 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @MFeld said:

    @fluffy155 said:

    @ReadyFireAim said:
    Have you ever walked into a shop pretending you have no knowlege about a valuable coin that you want to sell.
    I've thought about trying it but I don't trust myself not to get angry.

    Yes. A few years ago I moved to a new area and took a few pcgs and ngc pieces worth about $7000 greysheet bid into an LCS, claimed they were left to me. Was offered $1400. To be fair he seemed to be a lower-end dealer, but still.

    My belief is that if, for whatever reason, a potential buyer can’t or isn’t willing to offer a fair price, it’s better to just let the seller know that.

    Even better, the seller can say "I'm looking to get $X for these. Are you interested?"

    Often seller's refuse to quote. They probably think they might lowball themselves.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MasonG said:

    @MFeld said:

    @fluffy155 said:

    @ReadyFireAim said:
    Have you ever walked into a shop pretending you have no knowlege about a valuable coin that you want to sell.
    I've thought about trying it but I don't trust myself not to get angry.

    Yes. A few years ago I moved to a new area and took a few pcgs and ngc pieces worth about $7000 greysheet bid into an LCS, claimed they were left to me. Was offered $1400. To be fair he seemed to be a lower-end dealer, but still.

    My belief is that if, for whatever reason, a potential buyer can’t or isn’t willing to offer a fair price, it’s better to just let the seller know that.

    Even better, the seller can say "I'm looking to get $X for these. Are you interested?"

    Often seller's refuse to quote. They probably think they might lowball themselves.

    In general, yes. But for the experienced numismatist who's confident that he understands current pricing of the coins he's trying to sell...

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 14,383 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MasonG said:

    @MFeld said:

    @fluffy155 said:

    @ReadyFireAim said:
    Have you ever walked into a shop pretending you have no knowlege about a valuable coin that you want to sell.
    I've thought about trying it but I don't trust myself not to get angry.

    Yes. A few years ago I moved to a new area and took a few pcgs and ngc pieces worth about $7000 greysheet bid into an LCS, claimed they were left to me. Was offered $1400. To be fair he seemed to be a lower-end dealer, but still.

    My belief is that if, for whatever reason, a potential buyer can’t or isn’t willing to offer a fair price, it’s better to just let the seller know that.

    Even better, the seller can say "I'm looking to get $X for these. Are you interested?"

    Often seller's refuse to quote. They probably think they might lowball themselves.

    In general, yes. But for the experienced numismatist who's confident that he understands current pricing of the coins he's trying to sell...

    I much prefer that a seller quote me a price. And its not so that I can take advantage if the price is too low. It’s because if the seller is expecting or hoping for an unrealistically high price, I don’t want to make an offer that’s going to upset him or her.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,563 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @MasonG said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MasonG said:

    @MFeld said:

    I much prefer that a seller quote me a price. And its not so that I can take advantage if the price is too low. It’s because if the seller is expecting or hoping for an unrealistically high price, I don’t want to make an offer that’s going to upset him or her.

    I agree. But for some reason, open discussion of pricing is hard to achieve. I mean, it's pretty common between dealers, but not between dealers and the public. It's like no one wants to show their hand.

  • MarkMark Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets Given some of the posts in this thread, I think you need to start another thread "What posting on a coin chat board teaches me" :)

    PS: I find your experiences interesting. Ditto for @CaptHenway . Both of you know about a side of coin collecting that I do not.

    Mark


  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dealers do show their hands by putting prices on the coins they have for sale. The public is a mixed bag, however- running from the guy who inherited something he knows nothing about all the way up to collectors who have more knowledge about items in their area of expertise than most dealers. Pricing their coins? Unfair to ask the former, not so much for the latter.

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can count on the fingers of one goldfish the number of times a visitor would tell me what they wanted.

    Now this is in a SHOP. Not at a show or if the seller is knowledgeable.
    But, man, ask a street customer how much THEY want for the coin will only get you a leery look.

  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019 6:48PM

    @keets said:
    In a nutshell, that contrary to popular belief, the Customer is not always right. as a matter of fact, in addition to mostly being wrong they tend to be ignorant and quite often boorish. Just from today and eligible for TD's "Why Coin Dealers Drink" thread:

    --- the almost routine scenario where a customer starts out about "1943 pennies were supposed to be made out of steel but some got made out of copper, blah, blah, blah." I listen attentively and then she shows me a VG/F 1944-D and asks what we would pay for it. when I told her two-and-a-half cents she smirked, told me I was wrong, that Google says they're worth WAY more than that, smiled and turned to leave. Wow!!!

    --- a regular asks to look at an item in the store and then laughs and says they aren't worth that much and buys something else similar. for some reason, people seem to enjoy playing Consumer Advocate in the store, they know exactly how much everything is worth.

    --- I find cell phones to be particularly annoying in a retail setting. customers expect a transaction to stop while they answer a call or try to enter into a transaction while talking on their phone. very annoying, so we have a large sign on the entrance door at eye level that clearly says NO CELL PHONES in clear lettering. people just refuse to adhere to that request. so a guy is in the store walking around and talking, approaches me and, while talking on the phone, starts asking me a question. I told him that he should finish his call outside and then I'd be happy to assist him. I got MF'd as he walked out vowing to never return.

    Nice!! I understand why some animals eat their young.

    Al H. B)

    Lol, that ain’t shat, go over to precious metal boards and read all the dbc posts...

    keceph `anah
  • DreamcrusherDreamcrusher Posts: 210 ✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Dreamcrusher said:
    We get calls daily at the ANA on 1943 cents, $2 notes, you name it. We try to explain that while something may not be valuable, that doesn't mean that it's not neat. Lately, we have had a bunch of people calling about a dollar coin from 1776 with a bald guy on it. We call that coin the Nostradamus dollar.

    lmao.

    Odd that they ignore the second date on the coin.

    And you have to worry about their understanding of history.

    Funny you mention that. A few years back, I got a phone call from a woman who said that she was a substitute Social Studies teacher and wanted to know the meaning of why several coins have "two dates, 1776-1976, on them."

  • batumibatumi Posts: 834 ✭✭✭✭

    @SiriusBlack said:
    If it's on the internet, it has to be true. Everyone knows that, it's the law.

    Indeed. That is exactly what I had heard in the tavern!

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,557 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Dreamcrusher said:
    We get calls daily at the ANA on 1943 cents, $2 notes, you name it. We try to explain that while something may not be valuable, that doesn't mean that it's not neat. Lately, we have had a bunch of people calling about a dollar coin from 1776 with a bald guy on it. We call that coin the Nostradamus dollar.

    lmao.

    Odd that they ignore the second date on the coin.

    And you have to worry about their understanding of history.

    Indeed. They only see what they want to see. It must have been made in 1776 in anticipation of some event 200 years in the future!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Dreamcrusher said:
    We get calls daily at the ANA on 1943 cents, $2 notes, you name it. We try to explain that while something may not be valuable, that doesn't mean that it's not neat. Lately, we have had a bunch of people calling about a dollar coin from 1776 with a bald guy on it. We call that coin the Nostradamus dollar.

    You have a neat handle. What’s the background? Is it for crushing dreams of collectors with 1943 cents and $2 notes? ;)

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ahhh... dreams.

  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @Dreamcrusher said:
    We get calls daily at the ANA on 1943 cents, $2 notes, you name it. We try to explain that while something may not be valuable, that doesn't mean that it's not neat. Lately, we have had a bunch of people calling about a dollar coin from 1776 with a bald guy on it. We call that coin the Nostradamus dollar.

    You have a neat handle. What’s the background? Is it for crushing dreams of collectors with 1943 cents and $2 notes? ;)

    I know ... and hopefully he will share the reason why. :)

    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • 2ltdjorn2ltdjorn Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭✭

    still would rather answer calls about coins rather than the shit I have to tell folks

    WTB... errors, New Orleans gold, and circulated 20th key date coins!
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,557 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Dreamcrusher said:

    @Zoins said:

    @Dreamcrusher said:
    We get calls daily at the ANA on 1943 cents, $2 notes, you name it. We try to explain that while something may not be valuable, that doesn't mean that it's not neat. Lately, we have had a bunch of people calling about a dollar coin from 1776 with a bald guy on it. We call that coin the Nostradamus dollar.

    You have a neat handle. What’s the background? Is it for crushing dreams of collectors with 1943 cents and $2 notes? ;)

    Several years ago, when I started working at the ANA, I was given the job of answering coin questions from the general public. Most people call you thinking that they have something worth a lot of money. In most instances, you have to level with them and explain they really have something "very modest" in value. I do want to say that at the ANA we make an effort to educate the caller as to why their coin is interesting even if it is not valuable. Most times, the caller is very disappointed. Members of the staff started calling me "Dreamcrusher" and after a while, it stuck.

    Sometimes callers get indignant but not always. Sometimes it is very sad. I got a call around Christmas from the Salvation Army in Denver because someone placed a silver dollar dated 1804 in their bucket and they wanted to know what it was worth. I had an elderly woman contact me and asked me if her 1964 Kennedy half dollar was made of silver. When I told her it was, she got very excited and asked where she could sell the coin because she needed the money to pay her winter fuel bill. It's not my favorite part of my job.

    I've rambled enough.

    I did that job at Coin World and I did that job at ANA.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.

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