GTG - Newp Franklin Half - Now be honest

DiggerJim · August 21, 2019 3:28PM

Came in the mail today. It’s in a PCGS holder. That’s all the info for now.

DiggerJim

matt_dac · August 21, 2019 4:01PM

Harshly cleaned?

MattTheRiley · August 21, 2019 4:07PM

MS63

coinbuf · August 21, 2019 4:12PM

Wow those dies were really worked over, MS62??

Al21 · August 21, 2019 4:14PM

63
pl?

TomB · August 21, 2019 4:22PM

That's a ton of die polish! At first glance it looks MS63/64 to me, but there are some pretty severe marks in the wording on the Liberty Bell. Regardless, I would not be surprised to see it anywhere from MS63 through MS65.

DiggerJim · August 21, 2019 4:34PM

@TomB said:
That's a ton of die polish! At first glance it looks MS63/64 to me, but there are some pretty severe marks in the wording on the Liberty Bell. Regardless, I would not be surprised to see it anywhere from MS63 through MS65.

BINGO!!!!!!

I’m very disappointed in this. Of course the sellers pictures didn’t show those scratches.

New definition for “MS” it’s now known as “ Many Scratches”

I think this ones going back.

DiggerJim

ifthevamzarockin · August 21, 2019 4:37PM

“Many Scratches”

Yes, but it looks like there are more than 65 of them.

topstuf · August 21, 2019 4:42PM

How honest?

amwldcoin · August 21, 2019 4:57PM

Those are not scratches! I was going to guess 65 FBL but you were quick on the draw. I bet that coin has a luster bomb look to it!

@DiggerJim said:

@TomB said:
That's a ton of die polish! At first glance it looks MS63/64 to me, but there are some pretty severe marks in the wording on the Liberty Bell. Regardless, I would not be surprised to see it anywhere from MS63 through MS65.

BINGO!!!!!!

I’m very disappointed in this. Of course the sellers pictures didn’t show those scratches.

New definition for “MS” it’s now known as “ Many Scratches”

I think this ones going back.

DiggerJim

DiggerJim · August 21, 2019 5:05PM

@amwldcoin
Those are not scratches! I was going to guess 65 FBL but you were quick on the draw. I bet that coin has a luster bomb look to it!

Yes, my preference is what you see pure silver, blast white. Are you saying ignore the scratches and keep it. Remember I'm still new at this. (in November I'll be year and won't use the newbie crutch anymore)

MFeld · August 21, 2019 5:17PM

Deleted.

DiggerJim · August 21, 2019 5:34PM

I do notice the clapper ball is not connected to the bell.

jabba · August 21, 2019 5:36PM

The die polish scratches are a little distracting

Ronyahski · August 21, 2019 5:51PM

Despite the die lines, which dont bother me, I was going to guess 63+FBL

Higashiyama · August 21, 2019 6:20PM

I like this coin quite a lot -- it has character.

(it is easy to say after the fact, but I was going to guess MS65 -- there are quite a few drab Franklins in 65 holders, and this coin is certainly not drab)

fiftysevener · August 21, 2019 6:26PM

FBL's are all there aren't they !

Ronyahski · August 21, 2019 6:26PM

@Higashiyama said:
I like this coin quite a lot -- it has character.

(it is easy to say after the fact, but I was going to guess MS65 -- there are quite a few drab Franklins in 65 holders, and this coin is certainly not drab)

Agree, but when you can’t release your eyes from all those hits and scrapes, you can’t appreciate the character.

DollarAfterDollar · August 21, 2019 6:27PM

That many die polish lines on both surfaces are cool as the other side of the pillow.

georgiacop50 · August 21, 2019 6:36PM

I was going to guess MS65FBL.

thisistheshow · August 21, 2019 6:42PM

As I was looking at the pics in the OP, trying to GTG, I was thinking....

~I know I am not good at grading Franklins but this has to be high MS, and

~These die polish lines are absolutely fantastic. Obverse and reverse. Wow, @DiggerJim found an amazing Franklin.

So I was surprised to see that the coin was being called scratched and was about to be returned. I love die polish and this coin checks all the boxes.

It's a keeper.

jmlanzaf · August 21, 2019 6:44PM

@DiggerJim said:
@amwldcoin
Those are not scratches! I was going to guess 65 FBL but you were quick on the draw. I bet that coin has a luster bomb look to it!

Yes, my preference is what you see pure silver, blast white. Are you saying ignore the scratches and keep it. Remember I'm still new at this. (in November I'll be year and won't use the newbie crutch anymore)

Die polish lines are NOT scratches. They are a feature of the die transferred to the coin at the strike.

amwldcoin · August 21, 2019 7:49PM

Yes, I say it is a keeper! Go look at some others out there in holders!

@DiggerJim said:
@amwldcoin
Those are not scratches! I was going to guess 65 FBL but you were quick on the draw. I bet that coin has a luster bomb look to it!

Yes, my preference is what you see pure silver, blast white. Are you saying ignore the scratches and keep it. Remember I'm still new at this. (in November I'll be year and won't use the newbie crutch anymore)

Kkathyl · August 21, 2019 8:07PM

removed. Since lines are verified the you have a nice coin

Kkathyl · August 21, 2019 8:19PM

Since the consensus is Die polish line then it is better then my initial thoughtd

georgiacop50 · August 21, 2019 8:19PM

HAHA . No way those are cleaning scratches. I have submitted dozens of 63-D's just like that. I am very familiar with that die, and those polish lines.

Btw, I agree it is a keeper because: the pop report is skewed. The pop report shows plenty of FBL MS65 for the date/mm.

BUT, most of those were graded years ago when PCGS FBL standard was not near as tight as it is now. I suspect, well, actually, I KNOW, that probably 75% of PCGS FBL 1963D's would NOT get the FBL designation if submitted today. Standards have changed, PCGS has never been tighter than they are now and the OP coin has TRUE FBL and thus it is a keeper.

Kove · August 21, 2019 11:33PM

I was going to guess 64. Regardless, I've always liked the look of die polish lines, and I like the coin.

Paradisefound · August 21, 2019 11:40PM

Looks like he's been around the blocks

Paradisefound · August 21, 2019 11:41PM

Oh I take it back

DiggerJim · August 22, 2019 2:11AM

This thread is another reason why I continue to visit the different forums here many times a day. The information I gain every day is extremely valuable. This coin alone went from me returning it to a valued piece in my collection. By the way I paid $20 under the PCGS price guide.

I’ll be keeping it now.

Thanks again

DiggJim

DiggerJim · August 22, 2019 2:17AM

BTW what about the lack a stem connected to the ball of the clapper? With coin in my hand and a loupe there is clearly no stem.

Any thoughts?

DiggerJim

MFeld · August 22, 2019 2:39AM

@DiggerJim said:
This thread is another reason why I continue to visit the different forums here many times a day. The information I gain every day is extremely valuable. This coin alone went from me returning it to a valued piece in my collection. By the way I paid $20 under the PCGS price guide.

I’ll be keeping it now.

Thanks again

DiggJim

What have others been selling for, relative to the price guide?

DiggerJim · August 22, 2019 3:22AM

Not sure. I would have to look into that tonight.

Higashiyama · August 22, 2019 3:32AM

Price guide is 150.
Average of recent PCGS slabbed coins is $125.
Average of recent NGC coins is 128.
I think the OP did OK!

cameonut2011 · August 22, 2019 3:41AM

@georgiacop50 said:
BUT, most of those were graded years ago when PCGS FBL standard was not near as tight as it is now. I suspect, well, actually, I KNOW, that probably 75% of PCGS FBL 1963D's would NOT get the FBL designation if submitted today. Standards have changed, PCGS has never been tighter than they are now and the OP coin has TRUE FBL and thus it is a keeper.

Is PCGS's newer iteration of standards still limited to separation of only the bottom bell lines?

ricko · August 22, 2019 3:49AM

Late to the party, but would have said 63/64.... Although a good grade, it is not a coin I would choose...the die polish lines make it unattractive to me....Cheers, RickO

LanceNewmanOCC · August 22, 2019 7:11AM

@DiggerJim said:
Came in the mail today. It’s in a PCGS holder. That’s all the info for now.

kick it out. too many contact marks for a 65 and that "scratch/contact mark" parallel to the bell crack THROUGH (vertical) the parallel bell lines would always bug me. someone got a gift grade that day.

the extreme die polishing comes with the territory on franks but i'm sure there are more of these 65fbl out there that are more accurately graded.
.

asheland · August 22, 2019 9:41AM

Lots of die polish... I like it actually.

SanctionII · August 22, 2019 11:01AM

I think coins with die polishing lines can be very interesting and also eye appealing.

With respect to the Franklin which is the subject of this thread, I would not be a purchaser of same. For me MS Franklin half dollars are coins that lack eye appeal if there are numerous medium to large contact marks, scratches, dings, gouges, etc. located in the fields, the bust of Franklin and the Liberty Bell. All of these areas are "prime focal areas" where one's eye is drawn. Both sides of the pictured coin, on the central devices and on the fields have too many of these flaws. My eye is drawn to same and my reaction to same is negative.

Most MS Franklins have these types of flaws in size and number that just make them unappealing, particularly those which are untoned.

On the rare occasion where one finds an MS Franklin that is mostly free of these flaws, you have a keeper IMO. MS Franklins that have their large central devices and large fields mostly unblemished (and that have luster) are very eye appealing to me.

georgiacop50 · August 22, 2019 2:57PM

@cameonut2011 said:

@georgiacop50 said:
BUT, most of those were graded years ago when PCGS FBL standard was not near as tight as it is now. I suspect, well, actually, I KNOW, that probably 75% of PCGS FBL 1963D's would NOT get the FBL designation if submitted today. Standards have changed, PCGS has never been tighter than they are now and the OP coin has TRUE FBL and thus it is a keeper.

Is PCGS's newer iteration of standards still limited to separation of only the bottom bell lines?

Oh yes, that has not changed.

GTG - Newp Franklin Half - Now be honest

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