Given recent attendance trends and dealer anecdotes, the location might not matter as much as it once did. The ANA and dealers could use technology to open, expand and inform much better than presently done, but that takes creative thinking and interest in positive change - neither of which the ANA Board or bureaucracy seem apt to embrace.
Messydesk's list is a good start - but it based on a 20-year old conceptual model.
Thoughts - instead of downtown Washington DC, use nearby National Harbor or maybe Chantilly, VA near Dulles airport.
Instead of downtown Baltimore try Columbia, MD
Instead of Orlando try the nearby Orkin roach exterminator's.
@Treashunt said:
So far, for the ANA shows that I have attended, Boston was my favorite.
For the seafood. Ditto Baltimore.
Once (1980's) I researched the number of ANA members in each state. There were four areas ANA membership was concentrated. Back then, the Chicago area and East of the Mississippi contained three.
@Treashunt said:
So far, for the ANA shows that I have attended, Boston was my favorite.
For the seafood. Ditto Baltimore.
Once (1980's) I researched the number of ANA members in each state. There were four areas ANA membership was concentrated. Back then, the Chicago area and East of the Mississippi contained three.
@YQQ said:
Move the show around from city to city BUT!!!!!!
Try and dictate to the hotels much discounted rates for attendees.
there is absolutely no reason when a hotel get huge business for a few days that they should be allowed to raise their rates just to increase profits hugely for no other reason but greeeeeeed.
tot the contrary, attendees , and dealers should enjoy a 30-50 % discounts.
JMHO
A convention that attracts maybe 5,000 of which 3,000 or 4,500 are day-trippers is not a huge business.
At the big integrated facilities, its the room nights and room service that subsidize the meeting space, not the other way around.
If you poke around a bit, you can find some 2nd tier facilities that advertise rates. Hall F in Rosemont is 220,000 sq ft
5 days plus move-in / move-out:
would be a minimum of $175K
"Meeting rooms" would add a minimum of $300 -$1,000 per room per day (not just meetings, but offices for the convention, security room, hospitality suite, convention officers, etc.)
Call it a minimum of $200K.
Revenue - Admission
Dealer tables - $800K, $1M???
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I wonder if answers would change if you had to choose a place that is not within driving distance from where you live .
I think Dallas is the best option that is not driving distance from where I live. It has a central location in the country, has a huge airport which is an airline hub and those 2 things make it easy for almost everyone to get to. It's a relatively inexpensive city. It has reasonable weather for many parts of the year.
How about Winnipeg... Yes a Canadian city which is roughly the same distance for everyone to go to.
AND, the big advantage would be that your USD would be worth about 1/3 more than in the US.
Is it a coin show what you want, or a Holiday or pleasure trip???
I have copied a previous post from BStrauss3, below. It is highly relevant, but perhaps lost on many respondents.
Additionally, some years ago, I was on a committee that worked with the A.N.A. to try to come up with good options for show locations. I can confirm that our choices were greatly restricted, due to the "small" size of our conventions. Simply put, very few venues cared about our business and the cost of some of the others was prohibitive.
"Most of y'all miss that nobody wants us. The ANA show is not a 'good' convention.
A 'good' convention is one that buys a lot of room nights from the associated hotels, has a big catered banquet and lots of other ancillary services (hospitality suites). Those are the ones that make money and attract lots of bids from the venues.
If I told you coin dealers had to rent rooms in the convention hotel instead of sleeping 3 to a room in the no-tel mo-tel down the street, you would laugh me off the board. But it's part of the reason the big cities and sites don't send bids.
Ask the ANA how many venues they sent the bid package to and how many responded. I think the last NMS had four bidders and that was a GOOD response.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The best options might be smaller cities or unincorporated areas near large cities with ample transportation access. Obviously, Rosemont, IL is one of those - it is not "Chicago" but part of the MSA (Metropolitan Statistical Area).
Instead of San Francisco, consider San Bruno which is very close to the SF airport.
As boring as it sounds Chicago in the summer and Orlando in the winter. Cost and ease of travel are big pluses
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@YQQ said:
How about Winnipeg... Yes a Canadian city which is roughly the same distance for everyone to go to.
AND, the big advantage would be that your USD would be worth about 1/3 more than in the US.
Is it a coin show what you want, or a Holiday or pleasure trip???
The big problem with that is Customs Canada requirements for bringing goods for sale. We have looked into shows in Vancouver - but dealers can't bring their stuff across the border easily.
Maybe Minneapolis?, but then Rosemont/Chicago is close enough that it becomes the go-to in between other shows on the East and West coasts.
@TurboSnail said:
Not sure about the best city, but the best place would be on a cruise ship. Imagine a boat load of coin collectors partying on a 3 days cruise
And yet close to nowhere. It’s a geographical oddity.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@MFeld said: "...instead of sleeping 3 to a room in the no-tel mo-tel down the street,..."
Actually, those were the fun times - full of memories! A mattress on the floor, etc. My boss (and Mr. Jack$on) got the Burger joint cook to open the grill again (after he had cleaned it for the night) very close to closing time. The three of us each had two cheeseburgers, a Coke and a milkshake.
Only 3 to a room? I remember 1 time when the Clearwater show was at the hotel on the beach I think there was close to 10 of us in a room. Couldn't walk without stepping on someone when the lights went out. Of course we had to have a snorer so I beaned the shit outta him with a pillow!
@MFeld said:
I have copied a previous post from BStrauss3, below. It is highly relevant, but perhaps lost on many respondents.
Additionally, some years ago, I was on a committee that worked with the A.N.A. to try to come up with good options for show locations. I can confirm that our choices were greatly restricted, due to the "small" size of our conventions. Simply put, very few venues cared about our business and the cost of some of the others was prohibitive.
"Most of y'all miss that nobody wants us. The ANA show is not a 'good' convention.
A 'good' convention is one that buys a lot of room nights from the associated hotels, has a big catered banquet and lots of other ancillary services (hospitality suites). Those are the ones that make money and attract lots of bids from the venues.
If I told you coin dealers had to rent rooms in the convention hotel instead of sleeping 3 to a room in the no-tel mo-tel down the street, you would laugh me off the board. But it's part of the reason the big cities and sites don't send bids.
Ask the ANA how many venues they sent the bid package to and how many responded. I think the last NMS had four bidders and that was a GOOD response.
@Insider2 said: @MFeld said: "...instead of sleeping 3 to a room in the no-tel mo-tel down the street,..."
Actually, those were the fun times - full of memories! A mattress on the floor, etc. My boss (and Mr. Jack$on) got the Burger joint cook to open the grill again (after he had cleaned it for the night) very close to closing time. The three of us each had two cheeseburgers, a Coke and a milkshake.
While I did do that on a few occasions, I was quoting another poster - BStrauss3 - when I wrote that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Both Houston and Dallas are accessible from both costs, fairly affordable, and easy to fly to. While even less attractive as a destination, St. Louis is fairly central and you get a lot for your money.
The ANA shows are way to small to dictate anything to hotels.
@YQQ said:
Move the show around from city to city BUT!!!!!!
Try and dictate to the hotels much discounted rates for attendees.
there is absolutely no reason when a hotel get huge business for a few days that they should be allowed to raise their rates just to increase profits hugely for no other reason but greeeeeeed.
tot the contrary, attendees , and dealers should enjoy a 30-50 % discounts.
JMHO
Boston first choice, second choice New Orleans instead of Orlando. If you have to endure hot weather you might as well have good food and Sazerac or hurricane at Pat O' Briens.
A small show could be hosted by the Carmel Highlands Inn, just south of Carmel on Highway 1. I attended a wedding at the Carmel Mission in 1985 and the reception was held at the Highlands Inn. The room where the reception was held faced west with floor to ceiling glass windows that looked out over the Pacific Ocean and the California coast. That room would be a great place to have a small bourse.
Maybe Carmel Stamp & Coin can take the lead in setting up and putting on the show.
There is a large amount of money floating around the Monterey/Carmel area and I understand that some of that money is in the form of coin collections that have passed from generation to generation.
Like all other threads of this nature in the past, this one has devolved into "name a city."
I think the basement of the VFW hall in Keokuk, Iowa has 200,000 square feet available. Or was it 200? Can't remember which. Anyway, the lighting is better than on many bourses, because the yellowed, fly-filled fluorescent light fixtures provide for nice filtration.
@BryceM said:
IMO, it should be an easy place to get in and out of, have a decent restaurant scene, a decent local base of collectors, and a convention center of the appropriate size.
Portland was a bit too far out of the way, even though it was convenient for me. I'd love to see it in Salt Lake City. It has everything but the big collector base, but the Wasatch front is a beautiful place everyone should visit at least once.
Edited to clarify. I think SLC would be nice for a winter show, but probably not the right place for the Summer ANA. For that show, I like Chicago's central location, but I really dislike Chicago in general. Dallas, Denver, Kansas City, Indy, Minneapolis, or Nashville would be reasonable. For the winter ANA, I'd add San Diego, Phoenix, San Antonio, and maybe somewhere in the Carolinas.
Salt Lake City was my choice. You have Dell Loy Hansen in SLC...and me.
Except for the greedy city! Whitman tried to have a show there. There was no mention of needing a tax license until I got to the show. Nottin I could do. 2 weeks after I got home from a crappy show(and everyone I talked to thought the same) I received a tax bill from the city of Nashville for around $1500 based on what they thought I sold! Fortunately a few phone calls took car of that!
@MLBdays said:
Nashville, Tn. ~ overlooked and undersold ~ its a gem.
@amwldcoin said:
Except for the greedy city! Whitman tried to have a show there. There was no mention of needing a tax license until I got to the show. Nottin I could do. 2 weeks after I got home from a crappy show(and everyone I talked to thought the same) I received a tax bill from the city of Nashville for around $1500 based on what they thought I sold! Fortunately a few phone calls took car of that!
@MLBdays said:
Nashville, Tn. ~ overlooked and undersold ~ its a gem.
I'm not commenting, either way, about Nashville. But whenever I was going to a show I hadn't been to before, I checked on the sales tax regulations, in advance.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I will say in my defense it is the only show I have ever attended that the show promoters didn't make dealers aware of the issue. And believe me I was not alone!
@amwldcoin said:
Except for the greedy city! Whitman tried to have a show there. There was no mention of needing a tax license until I got to the show. Nottin I could do. 2 weeks after I got home from a crappy show(and everyone I talked to thought the same) I received a tax bill from the city of Nashville for around $1500 based on what they thought I sold! Fortunately a few phone calls took car of that!
@MLBdays said:
Nashville, Tn. ~ overlooked and undersold ~ its a gem.
I'm not commenting, either way, about Nashville. But whenever I was going to a show I hadn't been to before, I checked on the sales tax regulations, in advance.
@amwldcoin said:
I will say in my defense it is the only show I have ever attended that the show promoters didn't make dealers aware of the issue. And believe me I was not alone!
@amwldcoin said:
Except for the greedy city! Whitman tried to have a show there. There was no mention of needing a tax license until I got to the show. Nottin I could do. 2 weeks after I got home from a crappy show(and everyone I talked to thought the same) I received a tax bill from the city of Nashville for around $1500 based on what they thought I sold! Fortunately a few phone calls took car of that!
@MLBdays said:
Nashville, Tn. ~ overlooked and undersold ~ its a gem.
I'm not commenting, either way, about Nashville. But whenever I was going to a show I hadn't been to before, I checked on the sales tax regulations, in advance.
I feel your pain. But that sounds like more of an issue with the show promoters than with a "greedy city".
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
LOL! After doing quite a few shows in Tn. I can assure you quite a few dealers would not have attended if they had known about the tax issues. You ever tried to cover more than 10% in taxes selling a coin. Most coin collectors in the South refuse to pay sales tax on coins! I build it in to my price but it's kindda hard to do when it's over 10%!
@amwldcoin said:
I will say in my defense it is the only show I have ever attended that the show promoters didn't make dealers aware of the issue. And believe me I was not alone!
@amwldcoin said:
Except for the greedy city! Whitman tried to have a show there. There was no mention of needing a tax license until I got to the show. Nottin I could do. 2 weeks after I got home from a crappy show(and everyone I talked to thought the same) I received a tax bill from the city of Nashville for around $1500 based on what they thought I sold! Fortunately a few phone calls took car of that!
@MLBdays said:
Nashville, Tn. ~ overlooked and undersold ~ its a gem.
I'm not commenting, either way, about Nashville. But whenever I was going to a show I hadn't been to before, I checked on the sales tax regulations, in advance.
I feel your pain. But that sounds like more of an issue with the show promoters than with a "greedy city".
Gotta go with Vegas, Orlando. But, Rosemont is a good venue every time I was there. Vegas, Orlando, and Rosemont would have the best access for everyone for air travel, all 3 have the hotel and restaurant base needed, plus many other things to do.
But if world coins are becoming more of a factor, I say it should be in my favorite Euro city - Amsterdam!
Comments
Given recent attendance trends and dealer anecdotes, the location might not matter as much as it once did. The ANA and dealers could use technology to open, expand and inform much better than presently done, but that takes creative thinking and interest in positive change - neither of which the ANA Board or bureaucracy seem apt to embrace.
Messydesk's list is a good start - but it based on a 20-year old conceptual model.
Thoughts - instead of downtown Washington DC, use nearby National Harbor or maybe Chantilly, VA near Dulles airport.
Instead of downtown Baltimore try Columbia, MD
Instead of Orlando try the nearby Orkin roach exterminator's.
Lots of opportunities.
I passed on Denver, just because.
I passed on California, because too far from the airport, I think it was about an hour. and Hotels were ridiculous.
For great prices on hotels:
In order:
Boston
Philly
and Chicago
there was one other, and I can't remember which one it was, perhaps Cleveland?
BHNC #203
For the seafood. Ditto Baltimore.
Once (1980's) I researched the number of ANA members in each state. There were four areas ANA membership was concentrated. Back then, the Chicago area and East of the Mississippi contained three.
That isn't good.
I know where I am, NYC, is too expensive.
last one was, I believe 2001.
BHNC #203
A convention that attracts maybe 5,000 of which 3,000 or 4,500 are day-trippers is not a huge business.
At the big integrated facilities, its the room nights and room service that subsidize the meeting space, not the other way around.
If you poke around a bit, you can find some 2nd tier facilities that advertise rates. Hall F in Rosemont is 220,000 sq ft
https://www.oregoncc.org/plan/floor-plans-and-facility-features
5 days plus move-in / move-out:
would be a minimum of $175K
"Meeting rooms" would add a minimum of $300 -$1,000 per room per day (not just meetings, but offices for the convention, security room, hospitality suite, convention officers, etc.)
Call it a minimum of $200K.
Revenue - Admission
Dealer tables - $800K, $1M???
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
San Francisco!
"What do you think is the best city to host a big national coin show in?"
Depends on what you're trying to accomplish by holding the show.
Dallas, as has been said
Flights are easy, lower cost than many big cities, no union issues, plenty of convention and hotel space, good restaurants, I could go on...
Florida, Florida, Florida! and then maybe Las Vegas for a change of pace.
Atlanta. Major/cheap airport, hotels all over and available, lots of convention space. The ANA show here a few years ago was big.
I wonder if answers would change if you had to choose a place that is not within driving distance from where you live
.
I think Dallas is the best option that is not driving distance from where I live. It has a central location in the country, has a huge airport which is an airline hub and those 2 things make it easy for almost everyone to get to. It's a relatively inexpensive city. It has reasonable weather for many parts of the year.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
How about Winnipeg... Yes a Canadian city which is roughly the same distance for everyone to go to.
AND, the big advantage would be that your USD would be worth about 1/3 more than in the US.
Is it a coin show what you want, or a Holiday or pleasure trip???
I have copied a previous post from BStrauss3, below. It is highly relevant, but perhaps lost on many respondents.
Additionally, some years ago, I was on a committee that worked with the A.N.A. to try to come up with good options for show locations. I can confirm that our choices were greatly restricted, due to the "small" size of our conventions. Simply put, very few venues cared about our business and the cost of some of the others was prohibitive.
"Most of y'all miss that nobody wants us. The ANA show is not a 'good' convention.
A 'good' convention is one that buys a lot of room nights from the associated hotels, has a big catered banquet and lots of other ancillary services (hospitality suites). Those are the ones that make money and attract lots of bids from the venues.
If I told you coin dealers had to rent rooms in the convention hotel instead of sleeping 3 to a room in the no-tel mo-tel down the street, you would laugh me off the board. But it's part of the reason the big cities and sites don't send bids.
Ask the ANA how many venues they sent the bid package to and how many responded. I think the last NMS had four bidders and that was a GOOD response.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The best options might be smaller cities or unincorporated areas near large cities with ample transportation access. Obviously, Rosemont, IL is one of those - it is not "Chicago" but part of the MSA (Metropolitan Statistical Area).
Instead of San Francisco, consider San Bruno which is very close to the SF airport.
Etc.
As boring as it sounds Chicago in the summer and Orlando in the winter. Cost and ease of travel are big pluses
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
The big problem with that is Customs Canada requirements for bringing goods for sale. We have looked into shows in Vancouver - but dealers can't bring their stuff across the border easily.
Maybe Minneapolis?, but then Rosemont/Chicago is close enough that it becomes the go-to in between other shows on the East and West coasts.
Pacific Northwest Numismatic Association
imagine it sinking
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
Omaha, Nebraska.
It's halfway to everywhere.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
And yet close to nowhere. It’s a geographical oddity.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
That's a superb retort. Hilariously funny and accurate JACMan.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Absolutely NOT! That sanctuary city is a far cry from its great old days ("flower power" baby!). You get what you vote for - stinky poop, etc.
@MFeld said: "...instead of sleeping 3 to a room in the no-tel mo-tel down the street,..."
Actually, those were the fun times - full of memories! A mattress on the floor, etc. My boss (and Mr. Jack$on) got the Burger joint cook to open the grill again (after he had cleaned it for the night) very close to closing time. The three of us each had two cheeseburgers, a Coke and a milkshake.
Only 3 to a room? I remember 1 time when the Clearwater show was at the hotel on the beach I think there was close to 10 of us in a room. Couldn't walk without stepping on someone when the lights went out. Of course we had to have a snorer so I beaned the shit outta him with a pillow!
While I did do that on a few occasions, I was quoting another poster - BStrauss3 - when I wrote that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Both Houston and Dallas are accessible from both costs, fairly affordable, and easy to fly to. While even less attractive as a destination, St. Louis is fairly central and you get a lot for your money.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
It is not the air fare any longer. I believe it is the Hotels that are fleeeeezing everybody...
Anywhere on Maui... then I know I would go!
The ANA shows are way to small to dictate anything to hotels.
Las Vegas.
Easy to get flights to, tons of places to stay and eat, and lots of things to do if boredom sets in.
From a geographic perspective, Kansas City MO or Oklahoma City OK would be best.
Boston !!! We need a show !!!!!
Um, no...
https://kcconvention.com/resources/exclusive-service-providers/
OKC's Cox center is only 100K sq ft - https://www.coxconventioncenter.com/facilities
Those are the kind of things you need to take into account when planning...
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I resemble that "old white-hairs" remark...
Laredo Texas😊
I want to setup for coin show in Cali - Carmel by the Sea. From that show Big / Little lies looks like lots money there.
Boston first choice, second choice New Orleans instead of Orlando. If you have to endure hot weather you might as well have good food and Sazerac or hurricane at Pat O' Briens.
A small show could be hosted by the Carmel Highlands Inn, just south of Carmel on Highway 1. I attended a wedding at the Carmel Mission in 1985 and the reception was held at the Highlands Inn. The room where the reception was held faced west with floor to ceiling glass windows that looked out over the Pacific Ocean and the California coast. That room would be a great place to have a small bourse.
Maybe Carmel Stamp & Coin can take the lead in setting up and putting on the show.
There is a large amount of money floating around the Monterey/Carmel area and I understand that some of that money is in the form of coin collections that have passed from generation to generation.
Like all other threads of this nature in the past, this one has devolved into "name a city."
I think the basement of the VFW hall in Keokuk, Iowa has 200,000 square feet available. Or was it 200? Can't remember which. Anyway, the lighting is better than on many bourses, because the yellowed, fly-filled fluorescent light fixtures provide for nice filtration.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I said from a geographic perspective. Both would be about as centrally located as you can get. Only somewhere in Kansas would be better.
Fair enough...
Center of population
https://goo.gl/maps/owaSteBGWyT1cafW7
I think the nearest city w/ a 200K Convention Center would be St. Louis.
Geographic center:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/science/north-america-geographical-center-north-dakota.html
but unless we build it ourselves, there's no convention center...
Kansas claims to be the center of the lower 48 - http://www.kansastravel.org/geographicalcenter.htm
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Salt Lake City was my choice. You have Dell Loy Hansen in SLC...and me.
Except for the greedy city! Whitman tried to have a show there. There was no mention of needing a tax license until I got to the show. Nottin I could do. 2 weeks after I got home from a crappy show(and everyone I talked to thought the same) I received a tax bill from the city of Nashville for around $1500 based on what they thought I sold! Fortunately a few phone calls took car of that!
I'm not commenting, either way, about Nashville. But whenever I was going to a show I hadn't been to before, I checked on the sales tax regulations, in advance.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I will say in my defense it is the only show I have ever attended that the show promoters didn't make dealers aware of the issue. And believe me I was not alone!
I feel your pain. But that sounds like more of an issue with the show promoters than with a "greedy city".
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
LOL! After doing quite a few shows in Tn. I can assure you quite a few dealers would not have attended if they had known about the tax issues. You ever tried to cover more than 10% in taxes selling a coin. Most coin collectors in the South refuse to pay sales tax on coins! I build it in to my price but it's kindda hard to do when it's over 10%!
Gotta go with Vegas, Orlando. But, Rosemont is a good venue every time I was there. Vegas, Orlando, and Rosemont would have the best access for everyone for air travel, all 3 have the hotel and restaurant base needed, plus many other things to do.
But if world coins are becoming more of a factor, I say it should be in my favorite Euro city - Amsterdam!