Mint-state 1944 (no "P") Henning Nickel (and now a 1946 Henning also)

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dcarr
dcarr Posts: 10,260 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 28, 2021 8:12PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I recently picked up this example, which is the variety WITHOUT the looped "R".
The Henning nickels are almost unanimously known only in circulated grades.
But despite the rather poor look of this coin, it has absolutely no wear and the surfaces are as-struck.
The original mint luster can be seen around the perimeter of the reverse, especially.
As such, it is interesting to see what these actually looked like, right off the press.
.


.


.

Moonlight Mint

Comments

  • davewesen
    davewesen Posts: 6,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    what makes you sure it is from Henning?

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Great pictures Dan..... Thanks for showing us.... Cheers, RickO

  • cladking
    cladking Posts: 30,314 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Cool.

    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • MWallace
    MWallace Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @davewesen said:
    what makes you sure it is from Henning?

    The lack of a "P" mintmark. Not all Hennings nickels have the "looped" "R".

  • davewesen
    davewesen Posts: 6,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 6, 2019 7:03AM
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    @MWallace said:

    @davewesen said:
    what makes you sure it is from Henning?

    The lack of a "P" mintmark. Not all Hennings nickels have the "looped" "R".

    not all counterfeit nickels were made by Henning, are there other die markers or letter styles attributed to Henning?

  • DCW
    DCW Posts: 7,876 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    That's the best example I've seen. Here's mine, from the same die without the lopped R:


    As a side note, I saw one on eBay a while back with a different date (maybe 1939?)
    Went for moon money!

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • BUFFNIXX
    BUFFNIXX Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Were these coins struck on pre-war regular composition copper nickel planchets??

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • gtstang
    gtstang Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Interesting look

  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,171 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Fascinating. Never saw one even close to Mint State.

    May I suggest that you post a picture of the "Looped R" variety for educational purposes?

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • Zoins
    Zoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 6, 2019 9:14AM
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    Mike Diamond's Error-ref.com has a good article on these with photos of the looped, and non-looped R.

    Here are some photos of the looped R from the site. The top is from Mike Diamond and the bottom is from Cameron Leonard.

    Of note, there are 6 obverse and 6 reverse dies. Does anyone have a full list of die pairs? Is the 1982 reference by Dwight H. Stuckey still the best reference for these?

    While being interviewed after his arrest Henning claimed to have made six nickel reverse dies and six nickel obverse dies giving the impression there is another Henning dated nickel.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • DCW
    DCW Posts: 7,876 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The Stuckey reference is very elusive. Probably worth more than the coins!

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,867 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Nice example in the OP.

    I also have a high grade Henning that I will dig out at some point. Mine has a hint of rub and has a bluish toning.

    The Stuckey books are indeed worth more than the nickels themselves. I was never able to find one so I a bit if research and tracked down the author. He was kind enough to send me a copy, less than a year before he passed away.

  • fc
    fc Posts: 12,805 ✭✭✭
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    Super nice. Somehow I can imagine you liking that coin!

  • NumisOxide
    NumisOxide Posts: 11,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Cool piece.

  • jonathanb
    jonathanb Posts: 4,154 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Good eye!

  • dcarr
    dcarr Posts: 10,260 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @BUFFNIXX said:
    Were these coins struck on pre-war regular composition copper nickel planchets??

    I believe they are struck on copper-nickel blanks that Henning produced. I have not tested the alloy, however.
    My example is almost exactly 5.0 grams.

    Moonlight Mint
  • cladking
    cladking Posts: 30,314 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Most of these are VF or XF with a few lower. I've got a low end AU somewhere but have never seen one in Unc or slider.

    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • mannie gray
    mannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Very cool!
    I have not seen a nicer example.

  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,171 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @dcarr said:

    @BUFFNIXX said:
    Were these coins struck on pre-war regular composition copper nickel planchets??

    I believe they are struck on copper-nickel blanks that Henning produced. I have not tested the alloy, however.
    My example is almost exactly 5.0 grams.

    He did not have a foundry, nor rolling or blanking equipment. I was told that he ordered his planchets ready-made from a firm in Canada, which was how the Secret Service tracked him down. They simply asked nickel manufacturers if anybody was ordering 5 gram copper-nickel discs and got his address.

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • Oldhoopster
    Oldhoopster Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @dcarr said:

    @BUFFNIXX said:
    Were these coins struck on pre-war regular composition copper nickel planchets??

    I believe they are struck on copper-nickel blanks that Henning produced. I have not tested the alloy, however.
    My example is almost exactly 5.0 grams.

    I recall reading that the Hennings were overweight (5.3-5.4 gms??) and that was a diagnostic for ID. Is there additional research out there or do I not have the complete picture?

    Member of the ANA since 1982
  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,867 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 7, 2019 7:34AM
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    @Oldhoopster said:

    @dcarr said:

    @BUFFNIXX said:
    Were these coins struck on pre-war regular composition copper nickel planchets??

    I believe they are struck on copper-nickel blanks that Henning produced. I have not tested the alloy, however.
    My example is almost exactly 5.0 grams.

    I recall reading that the Hennings were overweight (5.3-5.4 gms??) and that was a diagnostic for ID. Is there additional research out there or do I not have the complete picture?

    I also understood that they are normally overweight.

  • drei3ree
    drei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭
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    Mine is the Looped R variety and is 5.1 grams.

  • BStrauss3
    BStrauss3 Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Nice to see what happens in Mint State when struck with the artificially worn (VF) dies.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50+ year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
    Author: 3rd Edition of the SampleSlabs book, https://sampleslabs.info/
  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,171 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Were the dies artificially worn, or were they merely copied from worn coins?

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • DCW
    DCW Posts: 7,876 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @BStrauss3 said:
    Nice to see what happens in Mint State when struck with the artificially worn (VF) dies.

    Agree, a strange paradox

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • dcarr
    dcarr Posts: 10,260 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @CaptHenway said:

    @dcarr said:

    @BUFFNIXX said:
    Were these coins struck on pre-war regular composition copper nickel planchets??

    I believe they are struck on copper-nickel blanks that Henning produced. I have not tested the alloy, however.
    My example is almost exactly 5.0 grams.

    He did not have a foundry, nor rolling or blanking equipment. I was told that he ordered his planchets ready-made from a firm in Canada, which was how the Secret Service tracked him down. They simply asked nickel manufacturers if anybody was ordering 5 gram copper-nickel discs and got his address.

    Correct - I meant to say "that Henning had ordered".
    Looking at the edge of my example, it is apparent that the blanks were rolled and punched just like any other Mint blank.
    When metal is punched from a sheet, the punch die penetrates smoothly for part of the way, and then suddenly breaks through the rest of the way with a "bang". The transition from smooth penetration to rough breakage can be seen on the edge of blanks that have not been struck and have NOT gone through an upset mill (rimming) process.

    From the edge of this Henning nickel I can tell some things:

    The blank was punched from a sheet.
    The blank was NOT run through any upset mill operation.
    The "coin" was struck rather softly, such that the edge punching artifacts were not obliterated by the collar die.


    .

    Moonlight Mint
  • dcarr
    dcarr Posts: 10,260 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @CaptHenway said:
    Were the dies artificially worn, or were they merely copied from worn coins?

    I think that this was the best detail that Henning could get in a die made using a transfer process.
    Obviously, he had to use at least two different coins (one for each side) to get a mule with a "1944" date and no mint mark.
    I suspect that the source coins had much better detail than his transfer dies captured.

    Henning's job of passing these coins as genuine was made easier by the fact that a lot of the US Mint Jefferson Nickels were poorly struck from worn dies. This made it easier for Henning's nickels to fit in with the circulating lot.

    Moonlight Mint
  • dcarr
    dcarr Posts: 10,260 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @DCW said:
    That's the best example I've seen. Here's mine, from the same die without the lopped R:


    As a side note, I saw one on eBay a while back with a different date (maybe 1939?)
    Went for moon money!

    This one is a much later die state. Note all the radial erosion lines on the obverse. The reverse does not show the same. So I am guessing that he replaced the reverse die at some point. I believe that my mint-state coin is an early die state.

    So while both coins are from the same obverse die, the reverse dies might be different. Both obverses have a marker - a small raised dot of metal between "GOD*WE".

    Moonlight Mint
  • ambro51
    ambro51 Posts: 14,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Take a look at my old threads this Henning is also high grade. https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/949850/probable-condition-census-1944-no-p-henning-nickel-newp

  • rec78
    rec78 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @dcarr said:
    I recently picked up this example, which is the variety WITHOUT the looped "R".
    The Henning nickels are almost unanimously known only in circulated grades.
    But despite the rather poor look of this coin, it has absolutely no wear and the surfaces are as-struck.
    The original mint luster can be seen around the perimeter of the reverse, especially.
    As such, it is interesting to see what these actually looked like, right off the press.
    .


    .


    .

    Photos not showing up.

    image
  • Namvet69
    Namvet69 Posts: 9,423 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thanks to everyone's knowledge and input, in a weird way it's good that Henning jumped in to his crime with both feet. I think there's more examples out there to be found. The hunt continues. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW

  • RichieURich
    RichieURich Posts: 8,640 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    If Henning had not made the mistake with the 1944 "No P", I wonder if he would have gotten away with his crime.

    An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.

  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,171 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @RichieURich said:
    If Henning had not made the mistake with the 1944 "No P", I wonder if he would have gotten away with his crime.

    I think he would have.

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • RichieURich
    RichieURich Posts: 8,640 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    DCarr, do you have any pix of the 1946 Henning nickel?

    An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.

  • RichieURich
    RichieURich Posts: 8,640 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Even if the counterfeits were discovered later, it might be like the counterfeit Micro-o Morgan dollars, no one knows who made them either.

    An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.

  • fiftysevener
    fiftysevener Posts: 943 ✭✭✭✭
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    @dcarr said:
    I recently picked up this example, which is the variety WITHOUT the looped "R".
    The Henning nickels are almost unanimously known only in circulated grades.
    But despite the rather poor look of this coin, it has absolutely no wear and the surfaces are as-struck.
    The original mint luster can be seen around the perimeter of the reverse, especially.
    As such, it is interesting to see what these actually looked like, right off the press.
    .


    .


    .

    I cannot see your image Dan here or anywhere in this thread. was it removed ?

  • dcarr
    dcarr Posts: 10,260 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @RichieURich said:
    DCarr, do you have any pix of the 1946 Henning nickel?

    For some reason the CU forum seems to be blocking (for some people) the pictures that are hosted on my site.
    When other people quote my original post and comment that they can not see my pictures, I can see the pictures in the quoted part of their post.

    It seems that I can post a direct link to any of my pictures, and EVERYONE can click on those links and see the pictures just fine. But if I insert one of those links into my post as a picture, SOME people can not see the picture.

    Anyway, here are direct links to the pictures:

    1944 no-"P" mint-state obverse photo #1:
    designscomputed.com/coin_pics/henning_obv_1.jpg

    1944 no-"P" mint-state reverse photo #1:
    designscomputed.com/coin_pics/henning_rev_1.jpg

    1944 no-"P" mint-state obverse photo #2:
    designscomputed.com/coin_pics/henning_obv_2.jpg

    1944 no-"P" mint-state reverse photo #2:
    designscomputed.com/coin_pics/henning_rev_2.jpg

    1946 Henning obverse:
    designscomputed.com/coin_pics/henning_1946_obv.jpg

    1946 Henning reverse:
    designscomputed.com/coin_pics/henning_1946_rev.jpg

    1946 Henning rim cud:
    designscomputed.com/coin_pics/henning_1946_cud.jpg

    1946 Henning "QF":
    designscomputed.com/coin_pics/henning_1946_of.jpg

    Moonlight Mint
  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,867 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I'll have to scrutinize my 1946 nickels.

  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,867 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    If there are two different "looped R" reverses, the next question, then, is how did Henning make his dies?

    I had thought it might be through an impact method but that would have damaged the host coin. Perhaps spark erosion?

  • dcarr
    dcarr Posts: 10,260 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @JBK said:
    If there are two different "looped R" reverses, the next question, then, is how did Henning make his dies?

    I had thought it might be through an impact method but that would have damaged the host coin. Perhaps spark erosion?

    I suspect that he used Jefferson nickels in some sort of transfer process, and that at least two reverse dies were made from a coin that had a damaged (looped) "R" in PLURIBUS. As to what sort of transfer process was used, I think the bumpy surface texture of AU and mint-state examples indicates that it was not a direct impact method. They could have been made as a mold and then cast in hard metal, and then the hard castings were used like hubs. Or perhaps the dies were cast directly from a molded coin (although it is unknown how such castings could have been hardened enough to make them brittle and susceptible to die breaks like that seen on my rim cud).

    Moonlight Mint
  • Zoins
    Zoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2021 6:18PM
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    Nice images. It's great to see all of these!

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • davewesen
    davewesen Posts: 6,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I can see both of those 1944 coins in your links are counterfeit, but how can you tell they came from Henning?

    Neither have the 2 accepted markers -1) break in lower leg of R or 2) dot above the deck to the left of the dome.

  • rec78
    rec78 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2021 7:31AM
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    The known dates of Henning counterfeits are: 1939, 1944, 1946, 1947 and 1953. I missed the boat , my dad saved lots of these date nickels for years and years. I don't know why, and then one day he had my sister take them all to the bank. :'( . I never got to search them. :/ . I do have a 1944 but I don't know if it is a Henning. Are there any other possible Henning dates? I do have a bag of about 475 1939's to check though.

    Can anyone provide pictures of the other known dates? (1939, 1947,1953) Thanks if you can!
    Bob

    image
  • dcarr
    dcarr Posts: 10,260 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @davewesen said:
    I can see both of those 1944 coins in your links are counterfeit, but how can you tell they came from Henning?

    Neither have the 2 accepted markers -1) break in lower leg of R or 2) dot above the deck to the left of the dome.

    It is the same coin, pictured twice with different lighting angles to show the mint luster.
    I don't know of any 1944 no-mint-mark copper-nickel alloy Jeffersons other than the Henning coins.
    The dot above the dome could be a small die chip that formed later.

    Also, Henning is reported to have claimed that there were six different reverse dies ?

    Moonlight Mint
  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,867 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I think Henning said there were 6 each obverse and reverse dies. However, there is no indication that he kept specific die pairs together.

    Since there are 5 known dates, the question is, did he make two dies of the same date, or is there a date that has not yet been identified?

  • Will1960
    Will1960 Posts: 76 ✭✭✭
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    error-ref.com/henning-counterfeit-nickel/

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