Is transacting Gem Saints on Ebay cost prohibitive?
Coinstartled
Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
Some back of the napkin math here.
A fellow wants to buy some gold and figures an MS65 Saint in PCGS plastic is a good way to go. Say that spot is at $1400 and he buys the coin on Ebay for $1500. Add in 8% sales tax so he is all in at $1620 delivered.
A year later he decides to sell and though gold has not gone up in that time, gem MS65 Saints are still bringing $1500 on Ebay.
The guy sets up a store for $28 and sells the coin at the $1500 market price. The seller fee of 6.15% totals $92 and add in $44 for Paypal. The guy books his own insurance (what the hell) so his priority shipping cost with sig confirm is $10.
So he paid $1620 for the coin and after all the fees, realizes $1326. A nearly 20% hit on a pretty basic numismatic coin.
Is Ebay still an efficient marketplace for the casual collector?
Comments
Give it a rest.
Yes it is. A great market place for those who can figure out how to make simple things work.
However, if your business model is FedEx delivery overnight delivery of 80 pound bags of cement for $2 each with free shipping, you would probably be startled by how much coin you would lose.
See Errors, PCGS is a major grader of Saint Gauden Coins and well, this is a PCGS sponsored forum.
Most people that buy rare coins, intend to sell them sometime in the future and for the last 2 decades, Ebay has been an efficient platform to sell those coins.
When I opened my account in late 2000, one could buy a coin for $1500 and sell it for $1500 and the fees totaled $32 to Ebay and $33 to Payapl and let's go with the same $10 for uninsured shipping. That is a $75 drag compared to $294 today.
That is a significant difference in transaction cost.
You must sell what the consumers demand, not what you personally think MUST sell.
It's that simple.
Once you have the product that proves itself to be in demand by the consumers, then it is just a game of getting enough eyeballs. And eBay has more than enough eyeballs - that is its secret of success.
You simply cannot sit there and insist that you, and you alone, know what buyers want. You MUST respond to their expressed desires, not yours.
careful...FedEx is on the ropes.
Depends what you're selling.
When there is a special promo with a $20 fee cap (or even better $0 promo), then there is room to sell. Otherwise you have to find a place to buy them for significantly under market value in order to turn a decent profit.
In my experiences, selling anything on eBay over a certain dollar amount has become harder for a small seller. The margins are one issue, mailing (USPS) can be worrisome, and returns/scams are the biggest concern. I’ve mainly limited my items on eBay to be in the $100-$500 range as that seems to be the sweet spot to avoid the issues with super cheap items and the multitude of concerns with losing more expensive items.
For bigger sellers or those that work on large margins, it’s a totally different ballgame.
Also, with Saints and generic gold that trades close to melt, it’s looking like selling at shows or local dealers (if one has a decent one nearby) is becoming the best option.
Well Mason, if you read the title line...the category featured is $20 Gold Saint Gaudens.
We can meet later on the 1965 Mustang forum with Bob and figure out how vintage manifolds are doing.
With your peculiarly unwavering attempt to make ebay sound like it destined for the abyss, im starting to wonder if you've got a few million in short on ebay stock.
Also, I dont do much on ebay, however what material I deem optimal for ebay, I make consistent satisfactory profits. Even starting items at 99c starts I net a loss maybe 1-2% of the time.
My reply was directed at the specific quote included, apologies for not addressing your entire post. Just curious- how often do you suppose the casual collector has a need to dispose of gem saints?
edited to add... How likely is it that a casual collector will set up an eBay store to sell one coin?
So you are deeming much of your material "not optimal" for Ebay. Why is that?
What's your scenario with David Lawrence?
I was thinking about using them instead.
My Saint Set
Bought a lot from DLRC and consigned a few key coins. They are a highly professional and efficient organization. It has been a while though so I cannot comment of their fee structure.
Because low profit margin, yet highly liquid material such as the saint in discussion, proof sets, circ 90% silver, circ/BU dollars etc. don't need the exposure that ebay provides in order to sell for retail. Something more niche or special benefits greatly from the exposure ebay provides.
It's all about the margin.
BTW...I managed to break even on E-Bay selling my duplicate Saints.
That was about all I could manage.
My Saint Set
That's why I don't sell generic $20's on ebay , fees kill ya. I flip them to the Local heritage affiliate
I've been hearing about the demise of eBay for 10+ years now, during which the stock price is up 8-fold.
I'll go way out on a limb here and say they'll somehow survive.
Dave
Given that $1382 is the melt value for the coin as of the moment of this post, he would be better sending it to the smelter for melt for cash than your proposal. No returns. No whining from buyers.
Agree. Coin wise, niche items are about the only category where Ebay is viable. They have taken out large swaths of PCGS graded coins with their usurious fees.
Sounds like the guy is a moron for paying 8% ST. Even selling here and eating a 3% PP fee can make the difference between losing and making money.
I bought most of my St Gaudens, mostly ms-63 and ms-64 in the 500-1,200 range. I wouldn't pick up a ms-65 saint now in this high gold market
A large portion of the loss is the tax paid at the time of purchase. That’s not an EBay problem any more than it is most other venues’ problem. Excluding that, the seller is netting about 88% of his cost, which doesn’t sound too bad to me.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
any loss at all sounds bad to me
+1
Neither is the fact that the price of gold hasn't gone up, even though it has a lot to do with the seller not getting all his money back.
Well I recently sold a MS64 $20 Lib. on Ebay for $1876. The buyer was a very experienced coin dealer.
I had it listed for $1577 on the BST forum here and couldn't move it. Just $200 over melt. What a shame.
Despite the heinous fees, Ebay still provides a viable means to move your extras.
I agree. I noticed most coins sold on BST are way below graysheet
It is not an Ebay created problem, but with the recent implementation of Ebay as tax collector the site has lost a longtime advantage.
Agreed.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
>
I think this “experienced coin dealer” will be out of business if he continues overpaying or speculating.
That would still leave you less than $50 above melt. Wholesaling them to a trustworthy dealer to pay by cash or check sounds like the way to go.
If one just wants to collect and enjoy the hobby, then all that buying/selling math is not necessary.
Cheers, RickO
It wasn't a 1904 and its PQ in an older NGC holder so it has a shot at 65. My pics were good enough to ballpark the grade. I hope some day the BST forum can regain its glory.
Sadly, all of the MS65 Saints that I need to complete my registry date set can’t be found on eBay for anything below $2,500. 😥
Need 1907, 1909, 1912, 1913, 1914, 1916, 1920, 1921, 1929, 1930, 1931 and 1932.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
This is an odd question coming from anyone but you.
The cheapest way to sell any coin is to post ads to FB and meet people directly in parking lots. [Bring a gun cuz they might.]
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Really? He paid retail (+tax) 12 months earlier. How is he not going to get some kind of a loss.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Agreed.
And would any reasonable person feel the need to dump a coin inside of a year and expect to make a profit?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Come on, give me a break. You were selling a 1900 $20 Liberty with a big copper spot on the neck when gold was quite a bit lower.
It sounds as if he knows the dealer/buyer in question -"The buyer was a very experienced coin dealer." Unless you do, too and have a different impression, why dispute what he said?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Too expensive to sell generics (Saints) anywhere.
My guess with...
gold @ $1500 mS64 = $20 premium
1600 ms64 =$10 premium
1700 MS64 = $5 premium
1800 MS64 Parity
1900 MS64 Parity
2000 MS64 $250 premium
2500 MS64 $500 premium
3000 MS64 Priceless
To OP: Yes I would think so.
Generally it costs me 15 pct of sales sell on eBay. Consequently I have to mark things up higher make bay work vs a show where items might be bid plus 10 pct if wholesale blowout or bid plus 20 pct retail. It’s been fantastic for smaller ticket material where 50 - 100 pct markup over cost is possible. I would say it takes a 30 pct margin for eBay work. Generally blow out something on bay would suggest starting auction at blue sheet or say 5 pct lower to generate bids. If auction end less than 24 hour away you will not be able end the item in case you want bail out on it / try some other time.
In your example that is a big ticket common item which forces tight margins. In addition a bullion downswing would wipe that out. You will have a lot of competition from others blowing theirs out. A wholesaler set up to me at a recent show had a beautiful solid quality / PQ PCGS 65 $20 lib at bid plus $20. Buyers of this material usually acquire these at shows sight seen from a go to guy like him who has a shop (it’s walking in below bid) and is a low margin high volume seller who turns his inventory very quickly. I believe a dealer set up on the other side of me bought it. I do shows (smash mouth) and online (west coast offense).
eBay is a really good venue for me - it is the worlds largest coin show. For coins like what your asking about I prefer sell those at shows I set up at.
A reasonable person might scratch his chin and wonder how and why the efficient promise of the internet had vanished. For the first time, beginning in the late 1990's, a collector, non dealer, could buy and sell PCGS graded coins on the internet for a round turn 5 or 6% transaction cost.
Today it is 20% plus.
Of course the spread could be higher for those that overpaid getting in, or lower or maybe even profitable for shrewd buyers and during a strong market.
The long suffering B&M retailers have regained the advantage (not a bad thing) as the once efficient online opportunity, now has an anchor around its leg.
Coinstartled, once again your business analysis of Ebay is completely idiotic.
You are crazy if you think the B&M stores have gained an advantage, just not true.
The internet was a place not to make money when it first opened up, just basic advertising.
Now the internet is mature in full swing and the profits from small businesses using the internet are exploding.
"crazy" and "idiotic" in the same post?
Careful or Jmlanzaf will be along to lecture you on the forum rules.
it could mean no dinner or tv tonight.
I speak truth, always have, always will.
Everybody probably knows It can cost one $25 or so have a basic eBay store vs the huge overhead expenses of a shop. Unless material walking in at significant pct below bid (allowing show wholesale profit) don’t believe the shop model much of a go unless you own the building.
Online is venue everybody can participate in. Levels the playing field.
I don't remember hearing that promise. Do you know who made it, and when?
The promise was made when the internet first came out.
The internet lived up to that promise big time.