Options
What's that VAM???
SilverEagle420
Posts: 255 ✭✭✭
Hey guys I got an 1880s Morgan the other day and I noticed a massive crack across the eagles breast, the closer I looked theres doubling on the obverse in the lettering and stars and also the date but theres many vams for this year 
0
Comments
Counterfeit
From what I have seen in the images above, it's counterfeit. Sorry.
Looks like a fake coin..... Cheers, RickO
Wasnt expecting that,, can I ask what makes u say that
Can you take a sharp image of the obverse and reverse of the whole coin?
Yes I can, and I only played 40 for it from a dealer and it passed the old magnet test Haha lemme take a couple
The date is wrong, weak, fatty. Indeed it's a counterfeit.
My YouTube Channel
+1
The Chinese make $1 fakes that won't pass the magnet test. The Chinese also make $20 fakes which are actual 0.900 fine and have the proper weight. The magnet test and weight are a FIRST hurdle, they don't prove anything by themselves.
I would find a new dealer, by the way. Either he intentionally stuck you with a fake or he can't tell the difference between real or fake. Either way, until you are more experienced, he could cost you a lot of money.
What does it weigh?
bob
It was a random dealer I decided to check out, and i dont have my scale atm, I knew about the ase Fakes but I didnt even think about them doin it with morgans
Morgan fakes have existed for about 100 years longer than ASE fakes.
Yea it makes sense jus never thought about it
We used to say, around the old coin store, that counterfeits were invented one day after coins.
Common day fakes of Morgans used to NOT be silver because Morgans were worth $1 in silver so there was no profit. But there are silver cast counterfeits of key dates going back to the 19th century.
In 1878 counterfeit "Bland dollars" (we call them Morgans today) were identified within a week of release.
bogus, jmo
A dealer who knowingly or unknowingly buys and sells counterfeits.
The above statement does not bode well for any professional coin dealer.
I thought some contemporary counterfeits actually had more silver than real ones, because the silver price was less than half of face value at the time. instant profit. Can't remember which year(s) it was, got its own VAM and later proved fake.
This conversation makes me want to go back to all my old, raw Morgans, and have a closer look at them to check if they're fake! Yikes!
Rocking my "shiny-object-syndrome"!!!
Well on closer inspection I see what you guys saw, like a noob I missed it,, the dealer told me he will reverse charges and then told me to just destroy the coin after I sent him pics of it compared to a ms 68 pic on pcgs
@SilverEagle420 you have great attitude and I really like how you took the news about your Morgan.
Most times there's pages of arguments when the buyer won't even consider the great opinions given.
Sorry your purchase is fake but sounds like its going to work out.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
That’s a good dealer response.
Yes I was glad he didnt ask for it back and wanted me to take it out of circulation,, so I'm sure you guys are tired of this, but this is literally one of my first coins I purchased like a year ago,, it's an 1853 arrows and Ray's quarter,,, theres cartwheel on the back but the front appears to maybe have been dipped, theres a strange haze front and back and I cant tell if its dirt or damage
Not contemporary counterfeits. The coins intrinsic value was the face value by design.
@jmlanzaf This is where I got that info - our host.
"Who would attempt such a feat? With the price of silver on the open market at prices much cheaper than the official price (25-50 cents for much of the first half of the twentieth century versus the official United States rate of $1.29 per ounce), the temptation to produce silver dollars with the "full" amount of silver and pocket the difference was irresistible to someone. In fact, one of the suspect coins was sent for elemental testing and it came back 94% silver and about 6% copper! It contains even more silver than a genuine United States silver dollar. However, even with extra silver and the work needed to create the dies and planchets, the profit from these coins would have been tremendous. Certainly, this was a temptation to hard to resist."
https://www.pcgs.com/news/pcgs-announces-contemporary-counterfeit-status-of-1896-o-1900-o
Good call you guys!!! It weighed 27 grams!! Haha and we couldnt get a purity at even 80%
I never considered those "contemporary", but I suppose they are as the dollars were still circulating.
I think one of the more interesting counterfeits (to me) are the Spanish gold-plated PLATINUM counterfeits
I'm not even a Morgan expert and I can easily tell that's fake.
A century ago, counterfeiters of silver coins had two primary sources of alloy: coin silver tableware, and sterling silver tableware.
Coin silver tableware was popular in the Southern States because silversmiths could melt silver coins, then make a product selling for several times the metal cost. No refining or special alloy required. Limitation largely to the south was due to the absence of commercial smelters and refiners in the largely rural region.
Sterling silver tableware was preferred in Northern states for it's brighter color and "standard" alloy. (Some sterling was available in the South but only from large plantations where high quality products were bought from England.)
When silver prices declined in the 1880s, counterfeiters could buy cheap metal to make into coins of much higher face value.
Thank you for this information.
They do. Many of the silver contemporary counterfeits are in the 92-95% sterling range as the counterfeiters used a mishmash of melted down common everyday sterling items like flatware/vases/cigarette cases etc for their their planchet stock.
I have a the exact same coin. I see your coin has a double profile, and all the characters are pretty much the same as what I have seen on many of my silver dollars. As for being a fake. I would safely say no. If you feel that if is a fake I would be pleased to pay you $20.00 for the coin to cut your losses. I find it unbelievable that a counterfeit would have the same detail woven into it as simulare VAMs with similar characteristics ... I say real without a doubt.
Jim
Hey Jim, post pics of yours too, please. Good thread. Remember a counterfeiter will make more than just one coin so you coin can prove them both to be fake or prove them both to be real....we need pics!!
bob
And this is exactly why they keep making them.
No .. I dont have one of them .. I remember spending a lot of time trying to find the VAm I had and as I recalled the top loop of the 8 had an issue. Since my dollars are not home all I have is notes. I recalled I spent a lot of time going through the vams because of a date issue... Here is a pic of the coin I have, this pic came from VAM world and it is the same as the one I have. I should have spent more time looking at the date then the background of the coin... The date is not normal second 8 is trash.. As I stand corrected I will not offer $3.00 for the coin.
Well, that was a quick reversal.
For the record, a lot of the modern fakes are showing doubling due to laser chatter.
Honestly it weighed out at 27 grams, big no no, and wouldn't test out at any purity, and with an earth magnet stuck to it, I wouldn't feel right selling it to anyone, I was gonna use it for target practice;)
Hold on to it as a reference piece. Study it well.
I don't understand why modern day coin counterfeiters cant produce fakes nearly as deceiving as the 'Privately made' Vams, such the 1896/1900, 01.02' micro-o's .
I understand that the earlier fakes were produced about 100 years back now,
would think with the 'progress' of technology over the last century that modern fakes would look a lot better than the OP's 1888,
Glad the dealer made good on it for you!
when you informed him of authenticity issue, did he ask you why you thought that? '
I wouldnt give him any more business, unless he never looked at the coin, He knew.
I got really interested in those privately made Vams a few years back, and IMO those guys back in the 20s made made much better copies then whoever made that 1880, the L in Pluribus looks like a modified T, reminds me of mass silver kinda, lettering is just all wrong, and the surfaces are like no coin i ever saw.
It took forty something years for the privately made Vam dollars to be identified
Im no expert, just seen a few coins...
heres one to compare:
Desire is oft more pleasant than acquisition.
hmm, no pix, one moment plz
Desire is oft more pleasant than acquisition.
here's a link, none are US Mint products:
flickr.com/photos/steelheadwill/albums/72157709194678677
Desire is oft more pleasant than acquisition.