Why would my proof 1959 50c be bid up to$98?
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UtahCoin
Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭✭✭
It's about a $25-$30 coin. Granted that it is a PR66 CAC Rattler, which might add $5-$10. Bid at $98, 20 bids from 8 bidders. Am I missing something??
https://ebay.com/itm/133076354205
I used to be somebody, now I'm just a coin collector.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
3
Comments
Somebody has a 60th birthday coming up?
Putting together a rattler proof set?
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Don't worry about it. Just take the money and run!
Can I borrow your bidders?
I knew it would happen.
some people likes DDRs
Count your lucky stars and find more PR66 CAC rattlers.
2 people decided early on in the auction that it was going to be theirs. Hence they've run each other up. Could be a variety or maybe they're building rattler CAC sets.
Agree with the rattler/cac set theory.
Collector, occasional seller
what I'd like to know is why you have an old history of spamming your auctions here and continue to do it?? that used to be a rule violation and it is just in poor taste.
In hindsight, I perhaps should have referenced the auction without it being mine. The flip side to that would be (in my mind) drawing attention to an auction that is mine, without acknowledging ownership would be wrong. If I've offended you or others, I apologize.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
actually, I don't have a problem with it. [If you care.] You did own it as yours and you actually suggested it was overpriced, so I didn't take it as trying to run up the bidding.
I wonder if PCGS @heatherboyd might consider opening up a separate "business forum" or something like that. This isn't really a BST issue and often people ask questions about eBay or PayPal which might be considered of a more commercial nature
It’s an interesting result. If it’s not some obscure variety, then I’m not sure there is anything special.
It could just be some spirited bidding.
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. My eBay sales are stinking it up lately!
I’d be worried about a return.......
one reason is the winning bidder will receive 13 percent e bucks, and yes if things get overpriced a return is always a worry
I like the birthday present idea. My 60th is coming up (hint).
One theory not mentioned is that someone is trying to stick it to you. Your "item description" goes after all kinds of ebay scammer strategies, and maybe somebody doesn't like the cut of your jib. Hope that's not the case.
Well, it's "about a $103 dollar coin now".
bob
Well, some idiot spent $850 at Heritage yesterday on a non-CAC 1950 proof 5c in a rattler.😜
Sold for $103.
Might be because of the sticker...
Free shipping?
Could someone (or two) believe it has a shot at PF-68? It would take that to make the price look reasonable....
Wasn't the holder or the sticker...
As it looks more like someone wanted the $13.39 13% eBuck promotion real badly
IMHO, that coin will soon reside in at least a 67 slab. I have a group of same date Franklin's from that era that look exactly identical yet are graded 64 and 65 some cameo and some not! I cannot teach with them any more because now they would each upgrade to 66 and 67's!
Makes your BINs on the other Rattler proof Franklins look dirt cheap! I am surprised they haven't been snatched up yet. Your photography is beyond excellent and it is your success that has your "competition" (if pawn shops are your competition) that holds grudges and then displays that jealousy here in the form of nick-pick and weak sister observations. His complaint speaks volumes on his insecurity rather than your business acumen.
You made me look. Lol.
My God what a venomous spew. What is the point of that?
The only thing out of the ordinary is the selling price. There is nothing with the bidders' history that would make me suspect shill bidding. The winning bidder may have bid 100% with this seller, but for TWO items. The under bidder has bid on multiple of his items, but I too have done that with various sellers with many listings. If the OP was going to shill bid, why on earth would he call attention to the listing and note the unusually high price? That would seem like an incredibly stupid move IMHO.
The coin sold for 68+ money.
Do you KNOW what "shill bidding" is? By your statement that it is shill bidding, you have ACCUSED the OP of running up, or having a friend/associate/acquaintance run up the auction.
If you are ACCUSING him of such, I hope you have PROOF
(note: I honestly don't think the OP had any part in his auction being run up by the start of this thread...and I certainly wouldn't accuse him of shill bidding)
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I am happy for you @UtahCoin
Let us know if the coin comes back...
A lot of collectors like the "green on green" look. Green PCGS slab, green CAC sticker. Years ago when I was cataloging for Heritage we had a complete Peace dollar set in MS64 at auction as individual lots. Sure, there were some nice coins in there, but the common MS64s with CAC went for wa-a-a-a-a-y more than they should have.
IMHO it's another case of buying the holder, not the coin.
Kind regards,
George
His complaint speaks volumes on his insecurity rather than your business acumen.
no, abcde12345, I am not insecure. your relative late arrival at this forum was after the OP had ceased(for the most part) his habit of linking his active auctions at this forum. as I said, that was once a violation of the rules and general etiquette and probably still is. this should have been at the proper forum, the BST. the OP isn't the only one who abused this and isn't the only one that I called out about it.
two recent returning forum favorites were among the worst. one would post discussions about coins and conveniently link the thread back to his coin firm and the "For Sale" page. another would regularly post his submission results here, something many of us do. his tactic was explained to me by him: he started to do it so everyone knows what is available for sale and can contact him. clever, but still wrong.
there are rules for a reason. some of us adhere to them, some of us don't and still others like yourself think that flaunting them is OK. in the future maybe you should PM me or just speak directly, I can take it.
Sometimes auctions take off because a couple of bidders have good reason (to them) for wanting an item... Auctioneers love that situation....Cheers, RickO
Utahcoin is fine. His intent appears sincere.
On the other hand, you with your one-word threads and misc. minutia (example: scolding a new member for posting in all caps) is more off-topic and that's a violation of board regulations. You seem to fit the rules to your liking and favor and tongue lash at others for their transgressions.
Pick a lane and stay in it.
Don't be that guy who wants another member to receive a ticket for window tint on their lifted 4X4 while you drive around in town on an unregistered moped.
Regarding PMs: PMs are a return favor. As you didn't extend the courtesy to Utahcoin initially a PM with your objections, and you voiced your complaints public, you set the ground rules of an exchange.
wow, dude, off the freakin' rails day for you!!!
you should try to relax, go milk a cow or something.
You are accusing the OP of behaving unethically. You should bring evidence when you do things like that, and not just give an opinion.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
What you know is wrong.
I've sold 70,000 items on eBay. I've never shilled one of them.
jmlanzaf- that quote wasn't from keets.
Just sayin'.
Why are some of you always arguing about something none of you is sure about?
on the other hand, would any of you have complained if the coin would have sold for $ 49 and only 2 bidders were at it? and, each one spiking it at 3 seconds to go, 1 dollar apart , pushing it from $ 15 to with 2 bids, hoping his spike is high enough to win and each assuming many more bidders would be on it in between and each bidder for their OWN reasons!!!
lets be realistic and let the auction run its course, regardless how it happens.
If you have thoughts of irregularities , report your suspicions to FEEbay and see what they have to say.
There is NO need for huge arguments. The proof is in the pudding, the item sold for a big price.
Someone was willing to pay that price for their very own reasons.
.
Ah forget it. Not worth the effort.
I didn't mean to quote him, I just quoted the whole thread and deleted most of the words for space consideration.
I guarantee Heritage and Stack's do NOT shill bid. They have NY locus and it is ILLEGAL in NY state and probably most other states.
In NY state it is even illegal to simply conspire with another bidder to not bid against each other.
This is not to say that shilling never happens. It is to say that you can't squirm out of the accusation by claiming that you aren't accusing someone of something nefarious.
This isn't entirely accurate. Shill bidding or house bids are illegal when done without proper disclosure in most jurisdictions, yes; however, this is only part of the story. Most jurisdictions allow house bids or consignor bids so as long as it is properly disclosed. Indeed most prosecutions for shill bidding are brought under federal mail or wire fraud statutes or state analogs which require an intent to defraud. When disclosed, there is no such intent. Heritage and Stacks-Bowers will have language in the terms of use/auction terms allowing them to place house bids, allowing consignors to potentially bid in some cases, or rejecting bids at their discretion. This is standard boilerplate language.
For NYC, here are excerpts from the pertinent regulation:
§2-122
(e) Where a consignor is to receive a rebate commission in whole or in part, or where he or she will be permitted to bid upon and to buy back his or her own article at the sale, disclosure of such a condition must be made in connection with any description of the item or items so affected in the catalogue or any other printed material published or distributed in relation to the sale....
(i) Except to implement a reserve price, and subject to §2-123(b), no auctioneer, his or her consignor, employee, employer, assignee or agent for any of them may bid for his or her own account at any auction if any of them shall have access to information not otherwise available to the public regarding reserves, value or other material facts relating to the articles which are the subject of the auction, unless their "insider" status and intended participation is disclosed in the auctioneer's catalogue and any printed material and on signs posted at the auction. (emphasis mine)
https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dca/downloads/pdf/about/auctioneer_law_rules.pdf
My comments are limited to Stacks-Bowers and Heritage and say nothing as to Real One's comment (which I also thought was misguided).
Internal bidding isn't "shill" bidding as I think of it. Although I have to admit it bears some similarities and maybe it is too fine a line i'm trying to draw.
A shill is trying not to buy the coin. A house bidder works for the sales agent, not the coins owner, and is trying to purchase the coin for the house.
Admittedly, the affect can be similar. But I've never heard anyone call the house bidder a shill before.
Of course, if the owner is hiding on his own coin, I guess that is a shill.
The regulation cited includes the consignors/owners, their agents, and other "insiders" whose motivation would seemingly be to inflate the price of the item rather than to make an actual purchase. Also, what about when the house is the consignor (i.e. it is a house coin)? I know for a fact that at least two numismatic auction venues will purchase coins and occasionally include the item in their subsequent auctions. I also know that both bid in their own auctions, but can't state categorically whether they bid on their own items or not. Reading the terms of sale/auction terms, it would seemingly be permissible. In major coin auctions, in many cases there is a very good chance that the under bidder is a potted plant in the back of the room. It is included in the auction terms and perfectly legal.