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“IN GOD WE TRUST 2.0”
MrTea
Posts: 56 ✭✭✭
I’m sorry to see that the moderators have decided to close a discussion that, while controversial, is an entirely valid subject matter concerning American currency. And at least til it was closed, was conducted politely and without rancor. Civility needs to be maintained, but this discussion had not violated that precept.
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I think you need to go back and read the rules thread, and pay particular attention to rule #3. It was an off topic post and it was political in nature which is against the forum rules. Either that, or you are just wanting to be banned.
To be accurate, it was religious, not political. And the content of the engraving on our currency, and why it is there, certainly is on a monetary topic. I’m not trying to have an argument, I’m trying to have a discussion. And everyone who posted did so with basic politeness and restraint. Perhaps a little more leeway might be permitted if it didn’t get heated or mean spirited. All rules can be interpreted, and I am suggestion a lighter hand unless justified.
Why ask for trouble?
Smitten with DBLCs.
What I’m asking for is the opportunity to interact as an adult with other adults. I would fully expect the moderators to close something that had gotten out of control, and honestly I considered it possible that the discussion might go that way, I was very impressed that it had not. But IT HAD NOT.
Out of control or not..... it's their playground.
Hey, it was a good discussion, just end it.
bob
I think, as @RogerB sort of pointed out, had that phase ended around 1876, we could discuss it as an attribute of coins and currency in the context of the cultural milieu of the time. Sort of like why the IHC is a female Caucasian wearing a war bonnet. IGWT is still here though, so we can't talk about it.
I’m not insisting on a right to say whatever I like. I’m asking for a little more leeway. Asking, not insisting. As you say, it’s their playground.
Asking might be better done by PM rather than re-posting a closed thread.
Not that either thread bothers me.
Just my 2 cents
I missed participating in that thread before it was closed.
Certainly " In God We Trust " is of relevance in that it is on our coins, etc. But any such discussion can without doubt veer off topic.
As stated in the other thread, I understand the idea that God was added to our coins and pledge at a relatively recent time, and in a way as a political move.
And I am under no false assumptions regarding the true Christian intent of of our Government.
But as a Christian, I am here to let you know @MrTea that God and Jesus love you . The persistence you show in starting this thread is perhaps the beginning of your journey to find this love.
I don't agree with the religious beliefs of all the men who founded this country. But make no mistake about it, the USA was founded on Christian ideals.
God works in all-knowing and mysterious ways. Whatever the reason for In God We Trust finding its way on to our money, it was meant to be.
I’m not going to pursue this any further. This is just a request to the moderators to not pull the plug precipitously. Meanwhile I will interact with other members as seems appropriate, and accept the actions of the moderators as their right and responsibility.
It could have been a good discussion. We could have explored the ravages of the Civil War that prompted an appeal to a Higher Being. We could have explored the contributions of Matthew Brady and other photographers (a new invention of the day) that brought the realities of war to the masses. We could had a depth of discussion woefully missing in today's society.
However, we apparently were not up to the task. Digression and tangents ruled the day...
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This is just asking for trouble. The road this thread is going down is not coin related.
Happy hunting😊
I am sure the OP was well-intentioned, but this thread is a challenge to the moderator's authority.
The other thread was going downhill fast, as I suspect this one will eventually. The subject as it relates to coins is innocent enough but it is easy to get off track.
Let's hope the OP doesn't get a time out.
Pretty sure I have acknowledged the moderator’s authority, and if I had a “this discussion is closed” button, I would now push it.
What specifically has happened that makes you want to close your own thread?
There seems to be a running current that asking questions is the equivalent of being rebellious.
I’m not trying to cause trouble, but I’m an incurably curious person, who doesn’t always see edges where others do. But I enjoy this site, and don’t want to become unwelcome
IGWT - all others, pay cash.
pros·e·lyt·ize - convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another
Therein lies the problem, on coins or on this thread.
I think that for the most part only trolls are unwelcome, and you aren't a troll.
Any members reading this, I request that you post and respond politely, and with respect, so that there will be no grounds given to close it. This is your community, but someone else’s site, and if you wish to talk about controversial subjects here, you will CERTAINLY have to do it responsibly.
I don't know if you are referriing to me, but could you please expound on this?
Are you saying that IGWT on on coin is proselytizing?
Do you see proselytizing as being the reason threads like this should not exist?
I think most non-believers would share that sentiment, since it could be interpreted as violating the Establishment Clause.
Apparently I’m not ready to walk away from this yet.
...Man cannot be trusted; ever...the end
Religious messages on coins are an old story, Greek, Roman, Byzantine, Indian, Islamic, English, and so on.
A coin without a religious message looks almost "naked".
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
Coins on Television
I’m only sore that I typed up a big comment on the original thread. Apparently the thread was closed just as I was about to hit the button. Poof. Gone.
Oh well. It is a legitimate numismatic question, but one that would be better discussed in a non-corporate setting. Here, it’s bound to go off the rails.
I just did some reading on this. I do not know a lot about the topic.
I am curious, what are instances where the Establishment Clause has been found to be in violation?
I like MrTea. If I were him I would PM Heather and fall on the proverbial sword. She made her decision to end the first thread. A second thread is no bueno.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
This is the same reason (s) why we don't discuss politic as well as religious with your friends unless of course you are trying to get rid of them
...... how about femme?
...well...I advise they also should never trust Man
I am not trying to push away any friends when I talk religion or politics...but I do understand exactly what you mean.
Threads like this on a coin board have never changed anyone's mind.
If you do like the motto nothing stated here will change your mind and if you do not again,
no one here will have the power of prayer to change your mind.
There used to be incredible threads on such topics on the old Open Forum....One of the reasons it is gone... Cheers, RickO
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1021071/in-gold-we-trust-1907-oregon-gold-coins#latest
I can’t determine your actual point of view. You speak in positives about the past, while seeming to say that elimination of those things was inevitable. Clearly there are many people willing to talk civilly about these issues, and even those suggesting more caution on my part are still here on this thread commenting.
If moderators are reading this discussion, would they please comment about how this fits within the rules and expectations of Collector’s Universe?
Ask @HeatherBoyd via PM is an idea. Everyone is busy. Babysitting these boards is just another chore.
@MrTea
"If moderators are reading this discussion, would they please comment about how this fits within the rules and expectations of Collector’s Universe?"
Don't worry, Heather will be around shortly.
Oh and good morning Heather
On coins it's "In God We Trust"..... On Cu it's "In Heather We Trust" LOL
This thread is pretty much the equivalent of another thread (nuked) about firearms, where a token coin was put in to keep it "coin related'. Yes the motto is on coins and currency, but I'm betting on someone else to start a 3.0 thread on this topic after this one is closed.
10-4,
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No Comment
With your sub-100 post count you are obviously new to the forum. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. These parameters (rules, boundaries, etc.) have been hashed out in the past as the result of heated discussions on other issues, and those threads cost some members their forum membership privileges.
The fact that the other thread was closed should give you a pretty good idea of what is allowed and what isn't. If you need further clarification, as others have suggested, you can send a private message or email to the moderators.
P.S. - the other thread was in fact not entirely civil - there were some statements that each side might consider somewhat inflammatory or insulting. That is the nature of a discussion on a topic like that. The thread started as a news report that had a numismatic connection but quickly turned into a discussion about religion. There were some excellent posts there, but that did not negate the underlying problem.
P.P.S - this thread has not been a continued discussion of the original topic - it has been a discussion about the original thread. I suspect that is the only reason it is still open (for now).
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LOL, That's a good one! Anything you wish to know about the motto on our coins and how it got there is in the PUBLIC REALM on the internet. So scratch your itch at the computer. Wait, I'll save you some time, This is one of those simple questions w/a simple answer. Why is IGWT on our coins? BECAUSE IT IS!
There are ways to have it removed. So far they have failed. You are welcome to join the 2%'ers. Apparently, just not here. That's possibly because IMO the tone of the "closed" thread became more like a statement about political and religious beliefs and the whining of a 2%'er snowflake who is truly ignorant about the history and traditions of our country which are under constant attack.
You’ll have as much luck changing someone’s political views as you will religion or belief in God. What’s the point? Do the words “In god we trust” bother any of you, really? If so just let it out😆
Until you read the ORIGINAL founding arguments in places as the Federalist Papers, throwing words around like "the Establishment Clause" to back your contention is worse than funny. The actual meaning of that clause has been bastardized more than the AU grade!
Good lunch read
You assume a lot about what I do and don’t know. While I can’t accurately quote most of the pertinent sources, I am familiar with them, and have valid opinions based on many reputable sources. My newness is concerning coin issues, not Democracy or philosophy. And I won’t waste anybody’s time posting sleep inducing tracts of political explanation. Using the phrase “Establishment Clause”, and the fact that I know it should be capitalized, should be accepted as evidence that I probably know what I am talking about, whether or not you agree with me. That would be part of the respect I was asking respondents to show above. Instead of countering my assertion, you gave me some “ad hominem”. Separate yourself from what you already believe, and defend it with what you know and can demonstrate.
Another point: E PLURIBUS UNUM worked fine for all of us, and no one would find it divisive. Why would that not be a good thing?