Would these have a shot at Photo Seal and/or CAC?
KSorbo
Posts: 161 ✭✭✭
I have a Flying Eagle and Indian that both seem decent for the grade (see photos below). Would either of them have a shot at Photo Seal? I’m thinking of sending to Rick Snow for a look but don’t want to spend the money without good odds.
The only blemish on the Indian is the spot on the reverse rim at 9:30 which is more obvious on the photo than in hand. The Flying Eagle has completely evenly colored surfaces other than the small alloy streak at 10:00 on the obverse.
Any opinions good or bad are appreciated!
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Why don't you ask him he is a member here @EagleEye
Cac would be my choice. Have no idea what ...photo seal represents.
@grip
Photo Seal predates CAC and is the first sticker that I'm aware of with any importance in the market. They are applied to coins that Rick Snow approves of at the stated grade. He also photographs the coin and provides a laminated plastic photo certificate to accompany the coin. At one time, CAC would automatically apply a sticker to any coin with an EagleEye sticker, but I don't think that's strictly true at this time. In the realm of Flying Eagle Cents and Indian Cents I hold them in equal regard to a CAC sticker.
Photo Seal is like CAC for FE’s and Indians. @EagleEye operates that service specifically for those series as he is the recognized expert.
Opinions on CAC are also welcome!
My personal best guess is the IHC is a no go at either the flyer a coin flip, but I don't collect either of these so just my uneducated opinion.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I’d take Rick’s sticker over a CAC bean, personally. He’s the authority on these not JA.
I think OP’s coins may be a little too drab in appearance. Though technically grade-wise they seem correct.
Flying Eagle, maybe. The Indian, probably not, but I'm no authority on these. The big carbon spot on the reverse rim and soft detail on the feathers turns me off a bit.
Used to own this one. Crossed from a non-cameo PCGS Holder:
BlueCC Image.
Just as I’m a fan of CAC, I’m an even bigger fan of the less well known Eagle Eye Photo Seal. Rick Snow is acknowledged by the numismatic community as the foremost expert on Flying Eagle and Indian Cents. He literally “wrote the book” on these coins. It’s tough for a coin to qualify for his coveted Photo Seal. It doesn’t just have to be solid for the grade, but I believe there are three factors that Rick also considers: current condition of the planchet for the grade; apparent condition of the die states at the time the coin was struck (a coin struck from relatively new dies is better than a coin struck from worn dies (perhaps this is related to luster?); and the quality of the strike. His fees are super reasonable - $15, and the better news is I believe if you submit a coin and it does not qualify, he refunds that $15!
As a Type Set collector, I own only one Flying Eagle Cent, and only three Indian Cents (1859 Cop-Nic no shield, 1861 Cop-Nic shield, and 1901 bronze). I never buy a coin expecting an upgrade. The 1858 Large Letters Flying Eagle MS66 was bought from Heritage with a CAC. I submitted that coin for a Photo Seal, and it merited that sticker. I then sent it back to PCGS for Reconsideration, and it was upgraded to 66+. Since the whole grade number and cert number did not change, both Rick and CAC automatically reapplied their respective stickers to the new holder in that higher “+” grade (take a peek at the price differential that “+” now provides). I bought my 1859 MS66 Indian directly from Rick Snow at a very fair price, already having both the CAC and Photo Seal. While my 1861 MS66+ Indian has a CAC, it did not merit the Photo Seal. Finally, I bought my 1901 Indian directly from Rick Snow as MS66RD, also at a very fair price, already having both the CAC and PS, and when sent back to PCGS for Reconsideration, like the Flying Eagle, it came back with a “+”, which again, automatically allows both seals to be reapplied, since the whole grade number and cert number have not changed. Best of all, Rick is a wonderful human being, and a true positive asset to our wonderful hobby.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Thanks for posting @BG.
The certificate says the "coin qualifies for the Eagle Eye high bid". What is the Eagle Eye high bid?
I believe it means that since Rick Snow knows the coin with a PS is very nice and high quality, he’ll buy it back sight unseen for AT LEAST 75% of what he is currently selling a coin for in that date and grade. But I can’t speak for Rick.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Both coins are nice for the grade. I would not spend money getting stickers for them. Their combined bid value is around $440. I would consider submitting the 1889 to PCGS see if it would upgrade. The 1857 is really nice.
Does the carbon spot on the rim of the 1889 affect technical grade or only eye appeal?
If Rick stickered it, he's not buying it sight unseen.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
You have a couple of nice coins there....If you are going to sell them, then the 'sticker' will enhance sales potential. If you are keeping them, it really does not matter, other than a confirmation of grade/quality. Your decision. Cheers, RickO
Yes, I agree he saw the coin once. But if it's so many years later, he may not actually remember that specific coin. I believe his point is 1) that you don't have to PRESENTLY show him the coin for him to make an offer, and more importantly, 2) Unlike some dealers who won't buy back coins you bought from them, Rick knows that if he applied his Photo Seal, then he knows he'll like the coin.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Like them as they are but if your going for an upgrade to sell it’s always a gamble.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Actually, even if YOU are keeping the coins, it's possible that someday your HEIRS will choose to sell the coins, and as @ricko correctly says, Photo Seals and/or CAC's will help ensure that the seller, whomever it may be, has a better chance of success at getting fair value compared to those same coins without stickers!
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Rick has a photo of every coin he stickered so he can refresh his memory as to what it used to look like. Of course, if he stickers a coin and the color changes over time all bets are off. Even PCGS and NGC won't guarantee the color designation on copper coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I agree, and stand corrected.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
The odds are 50/50%
Asking us about how these would do with Rick or CAC won't change that.
Good Luck!
It's quite likely that the odds aren't 50-50. It's just that it's very difficult to know what they might be, based just on images.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.