Cashless Stores vs. Government
Zoins
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What will happen to coin collecting now that cashless stores have arrived?
Governments are working to stop them.
Cashless stores are the hot new thing. Now politicians are stepping in
Crying foul over potential discrimination, state and local governments are cracking down.
https://www.cnet.com/news/cashless-stores-are-the-hot-new-thing-now-politicians-are-stepping-in/
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My 2¢....
The less coins are used in everyday transactions, and the less purchasing power they have, the less they are collected. I am basing this on the numerous discussions I have read here and elsewhere.
Regarding a cashless society and government intervention to stop it. My belief is that cashless is part of the intended end-game and the intervention is part of the false paradigm. Nonetheless, I mostly only use cash and I am willing to do what I can to preserve my right to do so.
A cashless society creates far too much power for banks and technically is unconstitutional.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
this istheshow: Fully agree. I believe the 'cashless' game is a tyrannical government's wet dream.
Why? Cash comes from banks anyway.
These cashless stores hurt the poorest members of society, especially the homeless. This will be the basis of government intervention.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Here we see a true bifurcation of commerce.... many, many people use plastic for transactions and carry no cash. Many, many others use cash for all but major transactions (car, house etc.). I use cash for most of my transactions conducted in person. Internet purchases, obviously, are done with plastic. I always have change in my pocket and bills in my money clip. Cheers, RickO
2 points: 1) the cashless movement is slowing down quickly because the growing progressive wing finds it discriminates against the poor and minorities. I think it is a long way away. Whether this is true, it simply wont be a priority for people to fight about.
2) Won't impact numismatics if it does happen. Are gold coins less desirable once they were stopped being made for circulation? Are classic automobiles less desirable since they have antiquated technology and bear no resemblance to today's cars? Did the change to contemporary art make old masters art less valuable?
Cashless is all the rage until the power goes out like it did in Puerto Rico for several months after hurricane Maria. Then cash is king.
Power grids and communications networks are the most vulnerable parts of the economy in natural and unnatural disasters like wars now.
When I am able to pay with cash there is no bank involved. When I have to pay by cashiers cash or debit, etc the bank must be involved. That's just one reason.
an add on to my earlier post. If we did become a cashless society, I think there would be a significant number of people who would feel uncomfortable with all their cash being "digital" and you would see gold rise for people who wanted to hold their money. Interest in gold often creates an interest in numismatics.
In an effort to keep the discussion civil for others that want to particpate. i will just suggest that the answer is self evident and move on.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I like having the ability to use cash and electronics to make purchases.
I must admit I love the heft and feel of PMs more. Too bad I can’t use them in common daily transactions. Most places don’t have an appropriate scale.
Follow the money and find out who will benefit from "cashless" stores. It isn't the consumer.
Cashless stores? Hell most of my peeps accept cash only, and US cash at that. Guess we are still old school up here in gods country. lol
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
I am against cashless stores and won’t trade there. It discriminates against people who can’t or won’t use cards and favors the financial industry with their fees and high interest rates. It also discriminates against people paid mainly in cash - gardeners, waiters, exotic dancers, coin market players.
Furthermore using cards like that your throwing your financial privacy out the window. If u bite into this eventually they will phase out cash altogether tightening the noose further. In cc default your cash is your survival.
At drive thrus I pay cash use change pay exact amount.
In the event of emp pulse attack or major war the electronic assets and money will be worthless, defunct, useless. In event of major crises withdraw all cash u can / spend from the cards run them up to hilt.
I can see how cashless is an attractive idea from the store owners point of view. Certain stores see 95%+ receipts going on cards, but they still have to keep a parallel system in place to keep cash and make change for the other 5%.
Less worry about clerks shorting the register, less worry about holdups, less hassle and cheaper.
Problem is, it’s discriminatory so I doubt it’ll take hold.
An interesting test case would be something like uber, that requires not only a card but a smartphone. If this type of company edges out taxis, will the cashless nature be challenged?
In looking at this situation, one must remember that economies are not government controlled - they are corporate controlled as are all consumer credit and credit-worthiness assessments. Experian and their siblings operate by their own rules, not government's. Abuses come from the same sources, only a few of which are subject to government regulation (banking/brokerage come to mind).
"Cashless stores" are part of a general corporate strategy by large companies to reduce the costs associated with handling physical money. It also has certain well-known side effects including - a "skimming" percentage by banks and card issuers which reduces seller revenue; consumer debt increase which creates over-limit and delayed payment interest fees for users; consumer behavior and profile data for use in marketing/sales to consumers; simplified financial tracking and quarterly roll-up adjustment which aids companies in obtaining capital financing, and can be used by management to justify additional compensation.
State and Federal governments have little to gain from electronic transactions except faster and more accurate financial accountability for merchants, banks and account services. However, governments have a responsibility to the citizenry to ensure open and fair access to goods and services for all, regardless of so-called "credit worthiness" or economic status. A further governmental role is the attempt to diminish a "have and have-not" stratification where some are excluded from certain economic options by arbitrary corporate decisions.
Does any of this affect the coin collecting hobby? Probably not. Coins will continue to be made and used, just at lower volumes, but that will have very small effects on either present or new collectors.
I am a cash guy unless I'm online or doing a bigger purchase. Almost going bankrupt due to CC debt a couple decades ago, and paying it all off, has made me hate using plastic or having any debt period.
At Mercedes Benz stadium in Atlanta they have gone cashless for all transactions. Knowing some people that work there they have all said it stinks. Tips for the folks pouring drinks and serving food are now electronic, which gets pooled, divided up, added to their paychecks, and taxed as payroll instead of off the books cash in their pocket same day.
The one perk though of continuing to tip in cash there...maybe a $7 beer gets ringed up as a $2 coke. Take care of the people, they'll take care of the 'system'.
When you're done with liberty and privacy, it's time to go cashless.
In a free country, a business would be free to determine their own preferred policies.
Except your "cash" comes fron a Federal Reserve bank. That's my point
"Cashless" puts central banks and governments in full control of your gains (losses) on savings and your spending. With a negative interest rate on what sits in your digital account they can "encourage" you to spend. Your mattress will not be able to protect you from a negative interest rate.
They can't take what they can't get their hands on. Sorta like the new paypal user agreement where they can hit your bank account to cover a negative PP balance that was made negative by a PP decision on a transaction.
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
But once it leaves the banks the power of money transfers along with it. As it stands consumers have a choice. Guess what happens when the consumer no longer has a choice?
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Only a handful of local politicians are working to stop them. At the national and international levels banking lobbyists are convincing political leaders that banks should have full control and that consumers shouldn't have the freedom of cash. When the custodian of your money is able to dictate what you do with it (high interest rates, save - negative interest rates, spend) you no longer have control of it. In the good old days, in times of financial upheaval, one could run down to the bank, pull their money and protect it themselves. How ya gonna protect a bunch of digital ones and zeros?
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
Absolutely, but that does not negate the point. Plus, the push for cashless also involves a pish to not let you hoard cash(which is really just saving without a bank).
If a store CHOOSES to be cashless, it is their choice, just like you can choose not to shop there.
Airlines (in flight) are cashless, and the world has not collapsed.,
If a store says NO CASH due to security concerns (robbery) and is forced to accept cash by a government unit, and the place is robbed, I propose, with the same law that forced them to take cash, that the people who take cash will PERSONALLY, out of their own paychecks and retirement checks, pay the store $1,000,000 per event. Not out to state funds, not out of any government funds, out of their own funds.
Plus, they have to walk BY THEMSELVES, unarmed, with no police or other guards, at midnight for 10 miles, in the roughest part of the city, announcing they are carrying $10,000 in cash.
Maybe then, they will allow that there is some merit to the safety argument of no cash.
That is perhaps justifiably paranoid, but "cash" is no different. They control the printing press. They can manipulate the value of your "cash" even if your "cash" is physical PMs. Digital is easier to track, but only marginally easier to manipulate.
Cash transactions were not allowed at yesterday's Los Angeles Rams/Chargers NFL preseason game at the new SoFi Stadium. It is just a matter of time before the government will ask us to turn in our cash and coins.
I went to a football game in Los Angeles last night. Rams/Chargers. First game at the new SoFi Stadium. Cash was not accepted. Food, drinks, souviners, etc. First time I've ever encountered that. The crowd didn't seem to have any trouble getting pie-faced drunk and fighting brawls using debit cards to buy their beer. In fact I think it's way easier for folks to put an $18 can of brew on a credit card than to pay cash for it. Maybe that's all part of the plan. The results have gone viral all over the Internet. Oh, well.
Were you at the game?
One time, I was waiting in line at the convenience store when the clerk announced that their internet was down and they, "would only be accepting cash." Half the customers walked out. I carry a small zippered pouch with my money clip and assorted change. Paying the exact amount allows me to drop some wheat pennies into the wild, on a whim. I'm not alone in that way. There are others in my community doing this, I suspect. A couple of years ago, I found a Mercury Dime in my money pouch that I had received in change without notice. Imagine not noticing that! I know you've probably heard of Dave Ramsey, the Personal Finance guy. He's a big advocate of budgeting and paying with cash. One time, on his radio show he revealed that for more than thirty years, he has carried three extra $100 bills in his money clip! I've tried it. It feels good. One book I look forward to reading is, "The Death of Money", and not because I'm looking forward to it.
Matt Snebold
No I did not attend. It was on the morning news.
Imagine pulling out all those $20s to buy a few drinks for yourself and your friends?
A lot of things are getting more expensive. I think one of the downsides for coin collectors is that the US is stuck with the quarter as the greatest circulating denomination when other countries have the equivalent of $4 coins that actually circulate.
Plus you need an ID to get a bank card.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Easy fix
Cashless society is one of "their" goals. This has long been known and in motion.
They recently announced they were looking at digital currency again.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-22/federal-reserve-s-digital-dollar-momentum-worries-wall-street
Every expenditure will be recorded and available for surveillance by "the powers that be".
You'll get a limited period of time, maybe a year or two, surrender any cash you have and have it credited to your digital accounts. Once the deadline is reached, cash will lose its legal tender status. Merchants will be forbidden from accepting it under penalty of law. Think of it as part of "1984", just a few decades late.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
At my local Kroger, the U-Scan is no cash, "card only". Has been that way the last couple of months.
My dad doesn't have a debit card, so I pay for his purchase with my debit card, and he gives me cash to cover the purchase.
If you want to use cash there, you can stand in line for about a half hour with people coughing, sneezing and invading your private space. I'll pass on that one.
Cashless society will not effect coin collecting in my opinion. Most of the modern issue coins look like cheap arcade tokens anyway.
People will collect the good old pre 1965 coins. They will want to collect silver and gold money that actually had real purchasing power. Coin collecting has been around for thousands of years. There will always be coin collectors.
c19 has significantly reduced my actual physical cash/coin spending. i have enjoyed using some sba, ikes, kennedys etc despite this.
having a strictly digital cash society is something i TRULY do not want to see in my lifetime or for those that follow.
and then there is the numismatic angle, so obviously i am biased there.
How are beggars going to survive? Oh the humanity!
And one thing I always point out in the cashless or CBDC (Central Bank Digital Currency) discussions is that, and it applies to the members of this board also, people who are older are comfortable with cash and it is part of their economic interactions. Younger people, especially millennials, are very comfortable with not using cash at all, everything is done electronically. Paypal, Venmo, and a host of other payment portals are available and very familiar to them. I don't think my kids (17 and 20) have touched cash in the past couple of years and lead normal lives. In fact, the amount of cash I find in my daughters stuff cleaning up her room after she left for school makes me think she considers cash a nuisance!
K
PS...I am only posting this once!
I have a feeling the same kind of discussion took place when paper money was introduced.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
Definitely. Very controversial.
And don't forget that some people are STILL mad that we went off the gold standard.
Some people refuse to use credit cards, as well.