@Broadstruck said:
All depends on the coin as I have 1 bought in 2007 just glancing at PCGS values is at 6X purchase price.
Agree it totally depends on the coin.
Certainly "if you stretch for a coin you'll be fine if you hold onto it" isn't a generic recommendation and even Laura who espouses this indicates you need to buy the right coin.
@Wahoo554 said:
I like Doug Winter’s opinions on coins with multiple levels of demand. For example, an 1861-D $5 appeals to Dahlonega collectors, civil war collectors, last year of issue collectors, etc. Very broad spectrum of demand that helps insulate it from various shifts in demand.
I never knew there were last year of issue collectors, but I did know about first item collectors. Learn something new everyday!
Not to run the risk of inaccurately paraphrasing a DWN article I read sometime ago, I’m not sure he said there are last year of issue collectors, but my general understanding is that there’s a level of added demand for coins that represent first and last years of issue. But I would be willing to wager there’s at least somebody out there who’s a last year of issue collector!
@Broadstruck said:
All depends on the coin as I have 1 bought in 2007 just glancing at PCGS values is at 6X purchase price.
Agree it totally depends on the coin.
Certainly "if you stretch for a coin you'll be fine if you hold onto it" isn't a generic recommendation and even Laura who espouses this indicates you need to buy the right coin.
I sold a few from my core collection that weren't performing well I had received a fair offer on. The offer was greater than I would have done at auction in a hot market. Profit was kinda like never having spent the funds and just collected yearly interest on it. I don't miss them as I just pretend they are still in my safety deposit box. Kinda like when your kids go off to college
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
Collecting coins is a hobby, not an investment, in my humble opinion.
With the coins I’ve sold recently (last 2-5 years), I’ve noticed that the widgets are being absolutely slaughtered. Not so for the semi-key and key dates. Strong demand remains, especially for nice original material. I’ve received strong money for them. My sample size is small, but that’s what I’ve noticed. Selling once in awhile is an eye opening experience, to say the least.
Of course, I could have made much more money had I been putting all my money in an S&P 500 Index Fund for the last 35 years, but how much fun would that have been?
Collect what you love. Have fun!
Dave
Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
@Dave99B said:
Collecting coins is a hobby, not an investment, in my humble opinion.
With the coins I’ve sold recently (last 2-5 years), I’ve noticed that the widgets are being absolutely slaughtered. Not so for the semi-key and key dates. Strong demand remains, especially for nice original material. I’ve received strong money for them. My sample size is small, but that’s what I’ve noticed. Selling once in awhile is an eye opening experience, to say the least.
Of course, I could have made much more money had I been putting all my money in an S&P 500 Index Fund for the last 35 years, but how much fun would that have been?
Depends on the level of investment, how much future value are you paying for and what is the market size for the coin. Using the Two Tier theology the answer moved closer to Yes or No based on the Tier and the Length. Is it a business investment or a personal accomplishment. Does the metal content drive price?
It's always good when buying anything you find yourself enamored with to think about how a future buyer would see it? This has worked well for me as I can state that my losses on everything bought and sold in this hobby as an adult has been far less than gambling via lottery tickets (idiot tax) and casinos. My pre adult purchases sold at a loss served as a crude instant education on what to never buy again.
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
@jmlanzaf said:
And, I'll say it, take offense if you want: there is maybe one person on this board who can consistently and accurately differentiate an MS66 from an MS66+
And there are at least 30 guys on this board who are certain that you are referring to them.
@Walkerguy21D said: if you stretch for a coin you'll be fine if you hold onto it?
Or in the same vein, 'buy the best you can afford'.....I've long thought this adage was bs.
The better advice has been 'buy the best you can understand'.
Buying the best you can afford when the price variance is (very) wide and the quality difference is marginal makes no financial sense. If the slightly lower quality coin is much cheaper, it should also usually be a better financial value.
At the very least, it has less room to fall...
And, I'll say it, take offense if you want: there is maybe one person on this board who can consistently and accurately differentiate an MS66 from an MS66+
Thanks we try. But with no way to measure eye appeal how do you conclude, if your excluding yourself how can you verify? If your talking about yourself, bold statement perhaps true how can we know. Like the fly circus 🎪. 😎
@Broadstruck said:
It's always good when buying anything you find yourself enamored with to think about how a future buyer would see it?
This!
Adding a bit more you need to factor in all detracting surface condition things like spots, stains, fingerprints, etc. It's easy to make compromises on such things as you are ogling a tentative newp that would instantly irritate the next buyer. With coins it's all about eye appeal being considered attractive by the masses not kinda decent looking with a great personality.
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
The only advantage a collector had over a dealer is that a dealer had to back out a profit margin when bidding on a coin, while a collector wanted it for his / her collection. That said, a well placed dealer always has first shot to hard to find coins that by the time you or I see them, has changed hands a few times and has been marked up accordingly.
After the crash in 1989-1990, attractive, in demand gem and supergrade Seated Quarters, Halves, and Large Cents, went up in value for about fifteen years. With gradeflation, most everything minted from the late 19th century forward has taken a hit in the last ten years, partly due to increased pops and partly due to a wider range of quality this caused in a particular grade continuum for a specific coin. The 12 S Nickel in MS 66 is a good example of this.
I will stretch 30% for a coin which is all there that I know I won't see again for five years or longer. I can count on one hand the number of coins I've seen in the last forty years that fall into this category.
Otherwise, no vale la pena.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
@Walkerguy21D said: if you stretch for a coin you'll be fine if you hold onto it?
Or in the same vein, 'buy the best you can afford'.....I've long thought this adage was bs.
The better advice has been 'buy the best you can understand'.
Buying the best you can afford when the price variance is (very) wide and the quality difference is marginal makes no financial sense. If the slightly lower quality coin is much cheaper, it should also usually be a better financial value.
At the very least, it has less room to fall...
And, I'll say it, take offense if you want: there is maybe one person on this board who can consistently and accurately differentiate an MS66 from an MS66+
Thanks we try. But with no way to measure eye appeal how do you conclude, if your excluding yourself how can you verify? If your talking about yourself, bold statement perhaps true how can we know. Like the fly circus 🎪. 😎
It's easy to test. Cover the label on the slabs
People pay an idiot tax for a point on a label that they can't even see because the registry demands it and sometimes that tax is 2000%
There must be an awfully large number of collectors who have gotten themselves in a little too deep. Otherwise, I don't think we'd see such a steady diet of fainting spells, hand-wringing, pearl-clutching, and descriptions of impending doom concerning the state of the hobby.
Perhaps spending the retirement money or junior's college fund on coins is rationalized away as "investing" or some-such nonsense. Seems like a perfect way to make a hobby not fun.
I find it interesting that there is almost no belief that a bull market in coins will ever happen again. Maybe it won't, and we're actually on a slow slide to bullion value. On the other hand, maybe it will happen when least expected and we'll be off and roaring again. At that point we'll be kicking ourselves for not buying more when it was cheap. For a person using disposable income to collect for the pure love and joy of collecting it won't really matter.
After reading so many of the posts here, the advice I was thinking of for the "What is that one piece of advice you would give a new collector?" thread is that new collectors should avoid reading the PCGS message board, lest they be scared off from collecting before they even got started.
@jmlanzaf said:
Honestly, if you COLLECT as a hobby and buy it because you WANT it, it's never a stretch and you never have to "be fine".
Actually I take quite a bit of pride in the way I've collected. Thrifty, discretionary, painfully slow, enjoyably....
It took me about 7 years to complete the most middle of the road looking 7070 you ever saw.
It's one of my proudest accomplishments and will never be sold.
It'll probably take me twice that long to finish my silver Washington quarter set.
A "stretch" for me does not mean putting me or my family in financial jeopardy. In my case it means paying $75 for a nicely toned, normally $50 coin.
I'm sure I took it the wrong way but I felt the need to speak up and didn't want to be tagged as trying to hit the lottery or spending the kids college fund.
The comments about different ways to approach potential purchases have been very informative. On how to best hedge against shooting yourself in the foot.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
@jmlanzaf said:
Honestly, if you COLLECT as a hobby and buy it because you WANT it, it's never a stretch and you never have to "be fine".
Actually I take quite a bit of pride in the way I've collected. Thrifty, discretionary, painfully slow, enjoyably....
It took me about 7 years to complete the most middle of the road looking 7070 you ever saw.
It's one of my proudest accomplishments and will never be sold.
It'll probably take me twice that long to finish my silver Washington quarter set.
A "stretch" for me does not mean putting me or my family in financial jeopardy. In my case it means paying $75 for a nicely toned, normally $50 coin.
I'm sure I took it the wrong way but I felt the need to speak up and didn't want to be tagged as trying to hit the lottery or spending the kids college fund.
The comments about different ways to approach potential purchases have been very informative. On how to best hedge against shooting yourself in the foot.
I think $75 for a $50 coin might be a "stretch". But if you are talking toning premium, it might be a $75 coin.
"Stretch" simply means paying more than market value. Which is OK if you are not trying to turn a profit or "be fine" 20 years later.
My point was that it doesn't matter if you spend $500 for a $50 coin because you love it that much. If you are doing it as a hobby, you don't have to worry about price beyond your ability and willingness to pay.
My mindset is that once you purchase a coin that is really nice for the grade, then you always have it and don't have to revisit it. I am in it for the very long haul, so I'm sure a lot of my coins will 'catch up', but if not it's better than spending it on cigarettes, booze, golf, gambling and other things that I'm not interested in. I will still be able to recoup a large percentage of my investment.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
The hold a long time has merit say 1972 to 1980 or 89 before the crash. But it’s essentially hogwash after that except for the period before gold / silver run up in 2011. The post 88 crash period one would have done well with large size currency and bullion coins horrible with many numismatics.
I used to think hold it a long time dealer line bc I would be shocked how little their buy back was or how high their markup was.
Beyond above nobody can really predict future or be certain of life expectancy. Consequently hold a coin a long time a line I would not use in selling a coin.
Comments
All depends on the coin as I have 1 bought in 2007 just glancing at PCGS values is at 6X purchase price.
Agree it totally depends on the coin.
Certainly "if you stretch for a coin you'll be fine if you hold onto it" isn't a generic recommendation and even Laura who espouses this indicates you need to buy the right coin.
Not to run the risk of inaccurately paraphrasing a DWN article I read sometime ago, I’m not sure he said there are last year of issue collectors, but my general understanding is that there’s a level of added demand for coins that represent first and last years of issue. But I would be willing to wager there’s at least somebody out there who’s a last year of issue collector!
I sold a few from my core collection that weren't performing well I had received a fair offer on. The offer was greater than I would have done at auction in a hot market. Profit was kinda like never having spent the funds and just collected yearly interest on it. I don't miss them as I just pretend they are still in my safety deposit box. Kinda like when your kids go off to college
Collecting coins is a hobby, not an investment, in my humble opinion.
With the coins I’ve sold recently (last 2-5 years), I’ve noticed that the widgets are being absolutely slaughtered. Not so for the semi-key and key dates. Strong demand remains, especially for nice original material. I’ve received strong money for them. My sample size is small, but that’s what I’ve noticed. Selling once in awhile is an eye opening experience, to say the least.
Of course, I could have made much more money had I been putting all my money in an S&P 500 Index Fund for the last 35 years, but how much fun would that have been?
Collect what you love. Have fun!
Dave
THIS!
and kudos for considering opportunity costs.
Yes
Depends on the level of investment, how much future value are you paying for and what is the market size for the coin. Using the Two Tier theology the answer moved closer to Yes or No based on the Tier and the Length. Is it a business investment or a personal accomplishment. Does the metal content drive price?
No clue
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
It's always good when buying anything you find yourself enamored with to think about how a future buyer would see it? This has worked well for me as I can state that my losses on everything bought and sold in this hobby as an adult has been far less than gambling via lottery tickets (idiot tax) and casinos. My pre adult purchases sold at a loss served as a crude instant education on what to never buy again.
And there are at least 30 guys on this board who are certain that you are referring to them.
Thanks we try. But with no way to measure eye appeal how do you conclude, if your excluding yourself how can you verify? If your talking about yourself, bold statement perhaps true how can we know. Like the fly circus 🎪. 😎
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
This!
Adding a bit more you need to factor in all detracting surface condition things like spots, stains, fingerprints, etc. It's easy to make compromises on such things as you are ogling a tentative newp that would instantly irritate the next buyer. With coins it's all about eye appeal being considered attractive by the masses not kinda decent looking with a great personality.
The only advantage a collector had over a dealer is that a dealer had to back out a profit margin when bidding on a coin, while a collector wanted it for his / her collection. That said, a well placed dealer always has first shot to hard to find coins that by the time you or I see them, has changed hands a few times and has been marked up accordingly.
After the crash in 1989-1990, attractive, in demand gem and supergrade Seated Quarters, Halves, and Large Cents, went up in value for about fifteen years. With gradeflation, most everything minted from the late 19th century forward has taken a hit in the last ten years, partly due to increased pops and partly due to a wider range of quality this caused in a particular grade continuum for a specific coin. The 12 S Nickel in MS 66 is a good example of this.
I will stretch 30% for a coin which is all there that I know I won't see again for five years or longer. I can count on one hand the number of coins I've seen in the last forty years that fall into this category.
Otherwise, no vale la pena.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
It's easy to test. Cover the label on the slabs
People pay an idiot tax for a point on a label that they can't even see because the registry demands it and sometimes that tax is 2000%
Honestly, if you COLLECT as a hobby and buy it because you WANT it, it's never a stretch and you never have to "be fine".
There must be an awfully large number of collectors who have gotten themselves in a little too deep. Otherwise, I don't think we'd see such a steady diet of fainting spells, hand-wringing, pearl-clutching, and descriptions of impending doom concerning the state of the hobby.
Perhaps spending the retirement money or junior's college fund on coins is rationalized away as "investing" or some-such nonsense. Seems like a perfect way to make a hobby not fun.
I find it interesting that there is almost no belief that a bull market in coins will ever happen again. Maybe it won't, and we're actually on a slow slide to bullion value. On the other hand, maybe it will happen when least expected and we'll be off and roaring again. At that point we'll be kicking ourselves for not buying more when it was cheap. For a person using disposable income to collect for the pure love and joy of collecting it won't really matter.
What BryceM said.
After reading so many of the posts here, the advice I was thinking of for the "What is that one piece of advice you would give a new collector?" thread is that new collectors should avoid reading the PCGS message board, lest they be scared off from collecting before they even got started.
Actually I take quite a bit of pride in the way I've collected. Thrifty, discretionary, painfully slow, enjoyably....
It took me about 7 years to complete the most middle of the road looking 7070 you ever saw.
It's one of my proudest accomplishments and will never be sold.
It'll probably take me twice that long to finish my silver Washington quarter set.
A "stretch" for me does not mean putting me or my family in financial jeopardy. In my case it means paying $75 for a nicely toned, normally $50 coin.
I'm sure I took it the wrong way but I felt the need to speak up and didn't want to be tagged as trying to hit the lottery or spending the kids college fund.
The comments about different ways to approach potential purchases have been very informative. On how to best hedge against shooting yourself in the foot.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
I think $75 for a $50 coin might be a "stretch". But if you are talking toning premium, it might be a $75 coin.
"Stretch" simply means paying more than market value. Which is OK if you are not trying to turn a profit or "be fine" 20 years later.
My point was that it doesn't matter if you spend $500 for a $50 coin because you love it that much. If you are doing it as a hobby, you don't have to worry about price beyond your ability and willingness to pay.
In this case, perhaps the answer to the OP question:
is YES, it's time to retire
My mindset is that once you purchase a coin that is really nice for the grade, then you always have it and don't have to revisit it. I am in it for the very long haul, so I'm sure a lot of my coins will 'catch up', but if not it's better than spending it on cigarettes, booze, golf, gambling and other things that I'm not interested in. I will still be able to recoup a large percentage of my investment.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Yes
The hold a long time has merit say 1972 to 1980 or 89 before the crash. But it’s essentially hogwash after that except for the period before gold / silver run up in 2011. The post 88 crash period one would have done well with large size currency and bullion coins horrible with many numismatics.
I used to think hold it a long time dealer line bc I would be shocked how little their buy back was or how high their markup was.
Beyond above nobody can really predict future or be certain of life expectancy. Consequently hold a coin a long time a line I would not use in selling a coin.
Collect but don’t deviate from budget.