Spectacularly Toned 1795 Small Eagle PCGS-65 Bust Dollar - (Off-Center Bust Variety)

Stuart · May 21, 2019 9:09AM

@TradeDollarNut This👇is one of the Prettiest Coins I’ve Ever Seen!! - WOW! 😁👍

Spectacularly Toned 1795 Small Eagle PCGS-65 Bust Dollar - (Off-Center Bust Variety)

tradedollarnut · May 21, 2019 9:15AM

Ex Knoxville. Sadly, not mine any more - I bought the Eliasberg coin and sold this example

Justacommeman · May 21, 2019 9:17AM

I thought he sold it?

Oops nevermind

m

Dave99B · May 21, 2019 9:24AM

OMGGGGGG! Wow!

Dave

TwoKopeiki · May 21, 2019 9:29AM

Beautiful coin with some attractive secondary toning. It's usually a great indicator when both TV and SP images are nice.

ColonelJessup · May 21, 2019 9:36AM

Virtually nonpareil.
I'd imagine you could be coaxed back in again at the right number. Wouldn't be the first time
No one parts with a jewel like this without "seller's remorse", even when ever-so-minutely technically or esthetically trading up. It has nothing to do with leaving money on the table.

Insider2 · May 21, 2019 9:41AM

Someone may wish to post why ("Off-Center") is in the OP's title.

Not what I expected. Sure fooled me at first when I saw all the rim intact.

johnny9434 · May 21, 2019 9:43AM

nice coin & color, I like

WinLoseWin · May 21, 2019 10:18AM

@Insider2 said:
Someone may wish to post why ("Off-Center") is in the OP's title.

Not what I expected. Sure fooled me at first when I saw all the rim intact.

It is an old though sometimes confusing term referring to Liberty's profile being farther to the left side compared to other 1795 varieties where it is more centered between the stars.

See how PCGS CoinFacts list by this category also:

https://pcgs.com/coinfacts/category/dollars/draped-bust-dollar/type-1-small-eagle-1795-1798/737

.
.

ColonelJessup · May 21, 2019 10:53AM

@Insider2 said:
Someone may wish to post why ("Off-Center") is in the OP's title.

Not what I expected. Sure fooled me at first when I saw all the rim intact.

He may look like the 73-year-old virgin, but he's not that innocent

BryceM · May 21, 2019 2:07PM

A real jewel. Gorgeous. Amazing to think it survived so long in such good condition.

Now, can we debate original vs. secondary toning?

TwoKopeiki · May 21, 2019 2:27PM

@BryceM said:

Now, can we debate original vs. secondary toning?

That toning pattern indicates greater concentration of sulfur at the rims. Something you would see from being stored in an album and that blue color points to a lack of toning prior to being placed in said album. Envelope and cabinet toning patterns are very different (see @WinLoseWin off-center example above).

BLUEJAYWAY · May 21, 2019 2:43PM

That piece is of stellar galactic properties. Striking. Like it very much.

topstuf · May 21, 2019 3:05PM

Well, if ..I.. sold that, I hope I'd be whipped severely.

Unknown · May 21, 2019 3:09PM

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CRH4LIFE · May 21, 2019 3:10PM

Wow that is a stunner

Stuart · May 21, 2019 3:19PM

I revised the thread Title as👇follows for a clearer and less ambiguous description:

Spectacularly Toned 1795 Small Eagle PCGS-65 Bust Dollar - (Off-Center Bust Variety)

oldabeintx · May 21, 2019 4:26PM

I think we need something beyond the "Like" button for something like this.

Stuart · May 21, 2019 4:28PM

@OldAbeinTX I agree with your following quoted post.

We need HOF “Hall of Fame” or MF (You Figure it out) Button Option for Super Coins like this!! 👍

@oldabeintx said:
I think we need something beyond the "Like" button for something like this.

RogerB · May 21, 2019 4:37PM

Nice! ...and not a spec of rust !

ChrisH821 · May 21, 2019 4:59PM

@WinLoseWin said:

@Insider2 said:
Someone may wish to post why ("Off-Center") is in the OP's title.

Not what I expected. Sure fooled me at first when I saw all the rim intact.

It is an old though sometimes confusing term referring to Liberty's profile being farther to the left side compared to other 1795 varieties where it is more centered between the stars.

See how PCGS CoinFacts list by this category also:

https://pcgs.com/coinfacts/category/dollars/draped-bust-dollar/type-1-small-eagle-1795-1798/737

.
.

I would argue that the "off-center" bust is actually more centered than the "centered" bust..

ColonelJessup · May 21, 2019 5:23PM

@ChrisH821 said:

@WinLoseWin said:

@Insider2 said:
Someone may wish to post why ("Off-Center") is in the OP's title.

Not what I expected. Sure fooled me at first when I saw all the rim intact.

It is an old though sometimes confusing term referring to Liberty's profile being farther to the left side compared to other 1795 varieties where it is more centered between the stars.

See how PCGS CoinFacts list by this category also:

https://pcgs.com/coinfacts/category/dollars/draped-bust-dollar/type-1-small-eagle-1795-1798/737

.
.

I would argue that the "off-center" bust is actually more centered than the "centered" bust

Don't give up your day job

ChrisH821 · May 21, 2019 6:05PM

@ColonelJessup said:

@ChrisH821 said:

@WinLoseWin said:

@Insider2 said:
Someone may wish to post why ("Off-Center") is in the OP's title.

Not what I expected. Sure fooled me at first when I saw all the rim intact.

It is an old though sometimes confusing term referring to Liberty's profile being farther to the left side compared to other 1795 varieties where it is more centered between the stars.

See how PCGS CoinFacts list by this category also:

https://pcgs.com/coinfacts/category/dollars/draped-bust-dollar/type-1-small-eagle-1795-1798/737

.
.

I would argue that the "off-center" bust is actually more centered than the "centered" bust

Don't give up your day job

Minute or two in MS paint, which one looks more centered to you? To me the centered bust is absolutely not in the center, it's to the right of center. Maybe I'm just crazy.

Unknown · May 21, 2019 6:07PM

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Stuart · May 21, 2019 6:14PM

What’s with All this Double-Talk? 🤣😂 LOL

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O5YUvrH9xtk

@ChrisH821 said:
Minute or two in MS paint, which one looks more centered to you? To me the centered bust is absolutely not in the center, it's to the right of center. Maybe I'm just crazy.

ColonelJessup · May 21, 2019 7:45PM

The Killer B's are gonna getcha. Was it that wild and crazy Al Bolender? Ken Bressett? Dave Bowers? Mark Borchardt?

Can they stand up to Pythagoras? Do they care?????

I would like to belatedly applaud the OP for renaming this thread so that it cannot be misunderstood by even a 73-year-old virgin. Even a very determined one

BryceM · May 21, 2019 8:25PM

What exactly are we calling the bust?

From Webster:

art : a sculptured representation of the upper part of the human figure including the head and neck and usually part of the shoulders and breast
ex "has a bust of Abraham Lincoln in his office"
2 : the upper part of the human torso between neck and waist
especially : the breasts of a woman
ex "her bust size"

Well, ummm, I suppose if you are using the second definition and are only paying attention to the, ummmm, bust, it, um, well, I suppose, it's actually right of center. @ChrisH821 is not entirely wrong......

Unknown · May 21, 2019 8:43PM

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Unknown · May 21, 2019 8:44PM

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RogerB · May 21, 2019 9:20PM

So which is "real?"

tradedollarnut · May 21, 2019 9:36PM

One should be wary about calling a coin image juiced if you’ve never held it in hand.

tradedollarnut · May 21, 2019 9:37PM

@Realone said:

@TwoKopeiki said:
Beautiful coin with some attractive secondary toning. It's usually a great indicator when both TV and SP images are nice.

No makeup i.e. Unjuiced and probably more realistic than the two at a straight on angle even though I am sure it has much more color with the best lighting and at the right angle.

This scan is crap. Coin looks nothing like it

Unknown · May 21, 2019 9:40PM

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Unknown · May 21, 2019 9:41PM

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tradedollarnut · May 21, 2019 9:44PM

@Realone said:

@tradedollarnut said:
One should be wary about calling a coin image juiced if you’ve never held it in hand.

So now glamour shots don't exist here?

A glamour shot is not a juiced picture

tradedollarnut · May 21, 2019 9:45PM

Unknown · May 21, 2019 9:49PM

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tradedollarnut · May 21, 2019 9:50PM

Yah, other than it’s not completely washed out and lifeless. But whatever

Unknown · May 21, 2019 9:50PM

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tradedollarnut · May 21, 2019 9:54PM

How is pcgs juicing images? They aren’t ...by any definition of the word. Are they getting the light angle perfect? Yes indeed.

Perfect angles, the colors jump. Imperfect angle, they look like the auction image. Certainly not like the scan

But your pronouncements of fact for a coin you’ve never seen certainly are amusing...do keep on

kbbpll · May 21, 2019 10:04PM

Wow, it's like a supernova.

Unknown · May 21, 2019 10:06PM

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tradedollarnut · May 21, 2019 10:07PM

@Realone said:
It appears that I have my own definition of juiced and you have your own. All I know is glamour shots are not real.
imo

That’s silly. Of course they are real if no color changes are done to them.

Unknown · May 21, 2019 10:13PM

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ColonelJessup · May 21, 2019 10:22PM

It's fascinating to watch two people troll each other.
Neither of them is very good at it, but both of them are so easy that they manage to get the worst out of each other with a minimum of effort

Unknown · May 21, 2019 10:54PM

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ColonelJessup · May 21, 2019 11:09PM

See how easy it is!

I feel like Lucy with her sign that says "Psychiatrist - 5c"
And fondling a football

scubafuel · May 22, 2019 7:44AM

I’m with @realone on this one.
For me, a juiced image Is any that does not show the coin as it appears to my eyes (or any eyes) in hand, straight on, in good light. It does not have to be edited in post processing to be “juiced”, just sufficiently far away from “yeah, that’s the same coin”.

Many of the true view glamour shots are such that they give me no sense of what the coin looks like in hand. If you buy a coin based on a shot taken in this style, you’ll be disappointed most of the time. However once you OWN the coin, I can see how this type of shot becomes very desirable.

TwoKopeiki · May 22, 2019 7:56AM

A few years back @wingedliberty posted a nice write-up on TV photos of toners and introduced the concept of "optimal viewing angle" that maximizes the color. I also agree that when it comes to toners, a single image will not be enough to give you a good representation of the coin.

@WingedLiberty1957 said:
I have been a collector of colorfully toned coins for a bit over 1.5 years and have learned a lot about this interesting sub-field of numismatics in that time. During this time, my primary coin photographer has been Phil at PCGS TrueView. Over the past few weeks, I have been amazed to read (on various posts by a few people on a few different coin forums), how some collectors think that PCGS TrueVeiw photos are "juiced" "oversaturated", "unrealistic", or "enhanced".

I have to say that I have probably had over 200 TrueView photos taken for me over the past 18 months and I have never had any photos taken that did not capture the look of the coin -- most typically seen at the optimal viewing angle -- defining "optimal" as the viewing angle that "max's out" the coins color. All of the PCGS TrueView photos I have received, were totally accurate and completely captured the look of the coin at the optimal viewing angle.

One fact that perhaps some collectors might overlook is that a single photo does not (and can not) capture the full spectrum of looks that a colorfully toned coin might show. For that you would need perhaps 5 to 10 photos of a coin (or perhaps a video would be better showing a nearly infinite spread of viewing and lighting angles). So when I see people post that they do NOT find TrueView photos "representative" of a coin, my jaw drops.

Yesterday, it began to dawn on me that perhaps many of the people that think that PCGS TrueViews are not "realistic" don't realize how DIFFERENT colorfully toned coins can look at various view angles. As you tip and tilt a toned coin under the light, the colors and look CHANGES, sometimes drastically. So when a photographer is hired to produce single photo (as is the case for PCGS TrueView), the photographer has to CHOOSE which of the coins various looks to capture in the image.

Most of us "color" lovers typically WANT the photographer to max out the color (even if a coin only shows that color at one special viewing and lighting angle). So this kind of photographing philosophy (maxing the color) might be just assumed by most photographers (as sort of a default) as to what the owner of a colorfully toned coin wants. I have to say, if you don't want that, say something!

Finally, I wanted to add that if you ever SELL a colorfully toned coin, you should always provide a number of photographs showing the various "looks" of the coin from different angles. This is not only good from the point of disclosure, but also helps mitigate returns from disappointed buyers who bought based on a single photo.

If you ever BUY a colorfully toned coin, based on a single photo, realize that the photo shown probably is a maximum color view of the coin and the coin could look more muted from other view angles (esp from straight on). So in this case, an air-tight return policy is in order so you can examine the hundreds of "looks" of the coin in-hand before you decide to keep it.

asheland · May 22, 2019 8:29AM

@ChrisH821 said:

@ColonelJessup said:

@ChrisH821 said:

@WinLoseWin said:

@Insider2 said:
Someone may wish to post why ("Off-Center") is in the OP's title.

Not what I expected. Sure fooled me at first when I saw all the rim intact.

It is an old though sometimes confusing term referring to Liberty's profile being farther to the left side compared to other 1795 varieties where it is more centered between the stars.

See how PCGS CoinFacts list by this category also:

https://pcgs.com/coinfacts/category/dollars/draped-bust-dollar/type-1-small-eagle-1795-1798/737

.
.

I would argue that the "off-center" bust is actually more centered than the "centered" bust

Don't give up your day job

Minute or two in MS paint, which one looks more centered to you? To me the centered bust is absolutely not in the center, it's to the right of center. Maybe I'm just crazy.

I wouldn't kick either of them out of bed...

MFeld · May 22, 2019 8:44AM

@scubafuel said:
I’m with @realone on this one.
For me, a juiced image Is any that does not show the coin as it appears to my eyes (or any eyes) in hand, straight on, in good light. It does not have to be edited in post processing to be “juiced”, just sufficiently far away from “yeah, that’s the same coin”.

Many of the true view glamour shots are such that they give me no sense of what the coin looks like in hand. If you buy a coin based on a shot taken in this style, you’ll be disappointed most of the time. However once you OWN the coin, I can see how this type of shot becomes very desirable.

@scubafuel said:
I’m with @realone on this one.
For me, a juiced image Is any that does not show the coin as it appears to my eyes (or any eyes) in hand, straight on, in good light. It does not have to be edited in post processing to be “juiced”, just sufficiently far away from “yeah, that’s the same coin”.

Many of the true view glamour shots are such that they give me no sense of what the coin looks like in hand. If you buy a coin based on a shot taken in this style, you’ll be disappointed most of the time. However once you OWN the coin, I can see how this type of shot becomes very desirable.

I'm with TDN on this one. To me, a "glamour shot" is not synonymous with a "juiced" image. I think of the latter as one which has had the color and/or luster manipulated/enhanced, and not just by tilting the coin and/or using optimal lighting conditions.

Spectacularly Toned 1795 Small Eagle PCGS-65 Bust Dollar - (Off-Center Bust Variety)

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