@drei3ree said:
This smells a lot like spam...Greater fool?
I may be spamming it a little.... I am using the forum to determine where the possible value will be in the future. I am considering all the input. I am not rich and have a limited budget annually to invest with, I gamble a little and it has paid off for me.
98% of melt. In the long run, hhow many of these medallic issues eith high intrinsic value have any collectible value?
What will melt value be in 30 years?
I know that I am partially blind and have my own agenda but this is what I see.
There's a slim chance we'll be a socialist country in 30 years. Might have to wait another 30 for the next generation to wise up, get educated and actually earn a living.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
Irrelevant to your point here - if you are speculating on the value of bullion, there are more cost effective ways to do it.
1.How many will want a 5 ounce counterfeit $100 Union Issued by the Smithsonian?
It seems like there is a real intrinsic and collector value present here. If they continue to destroy them the market will only need to support a handful of collectors as thats all that will remain.
History says: not enough to give it collector value
2.What would need to change to make this desirable to the collectors market?
If you need the market to change, it is as likely to change against you as for you.
3.Perhaps a forced buyback?
\
Also irrelevant to your point. A smaller supply against zero demand is still too much.
4.Destruction of all 2005 issue as they where deemed unauthorized by the treasury?
Irrelevant. See #3. It is still NOT A U.S. COIN. You could melt them all and virtually no one might care.
5.Will there be a dozen people in the collectors market with pockets deep enough to pay the fair market value?
There will always be a dozen people who could pay $1 million for it. Also irrelevant since that doesn't mean they will.
You already know what you want to do. Just do it. Trying to get us to justify your speculative purchase is a waste of everyone's time.
You want to spend some time, find me a 5 oz gold medal issued by a private mint that has any collector demand now. All such issues are incredibly rare to begin with, yet no one cares. I could literally issue one next week from a local mint in town with a mintage of 1. I could tie it to the Apollo landing or some other seminal event. The world would shrug.
You already know what you want to do. Just do it. Trying to get us to justify your speculative purchase is a waste of everyone's time.
Please ignore my thread and speculation.... I dont need you to be wasting your time. But one question...
Why are there hundreds of tokens or fantasy issue that are now selling for 100x their original sale price? I dont need to name any we all know examples of it.
To think that a vast amount of forum posters believe this is not going to be a performer someday has me perplexed. Everything points to a dramatic increase in price except that its not a US mint issue...... And I know thats a big one for most.
To me, the 5oz gold $100 Union is one of the top fantasy coins. It's one piece that I think about picking up a lot but hasn't made it to the top of the list yet. It has a lot going for it.
Original US Mint Engraver, George Morgan, design
Largest US denomination: 100 Dollars
Approximate intended metal and weight (gold & 5 oz)
No more are being made
Similar to a coin / pattern
Hard to be mistaken for an actual coin
Limited downside due to high intrinsic value
Some things that hold it back:
5 oz of gold is a high price entry point
Unknown engraver
No collector following for NY Mint struck pieces
Given that 300 were struck, the number of available pieces is small.
So it has things going for it but some detractions as well. If fantasy coin collectors ever get into that dollar range, things could look interesting.
What's is the downside risk on this fantasy coin? It's a very small percent since it can always be sold to a refinery at close to melt if no one else wants to buy it. What's the downside risk of most coins in this price range?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
What's is the downside risk on this fantasy coin? It's a very small percent since it can always be sold to a refinery at close to melt if no one else wants to buy it. What's the downside risk of most coins in this price range?
Agree the low premium over melt limits the downside a lot make makes it attractive from an intrinsic value perspective.
If buying on the basis of melt value, there are lots of ways to do that and add the numismatic value. 4 or more common date higher circulated grade, maybe slabbed, Saint Gaudens would be a safer bet, to me. A series that is very popular and unlikely to diminish in the future. They will undoubtedly hold their value and appreciate accordingly.
If the rarity and 5 oz's of gold grabs you the go for it. You seem to be determined to justify buying this nice, but limited, medal via reinforcement from the forum. You can see the opinions vary quite a lot. You didn't really expect anything different did you?
If you need permission, you have it. Buy it today and enjoy it for the 30 years you have mentioned several times. Have no regrets or buyers remorse. You wanted it and bought it. Good luck to you.
@Kudbegud said:
If buying on the basis of melt value, there are lots of ways to do that and add the numismatic value. 4 or more common date higher circulated grade, maybe slabbed, Saint Gaudens would be a safer bet, to me. A series that is very popular and unlikely to diminish in the future. They will undoubtedly hold their value and appreciate accordingly.
I don't think the goal here is to strictly buy bullion.
And if it was, I'm not too crazy about common date, circulated, old coins due to the odd sizes and metal content. I don't think the prognosis for these coins going into the future is great. I'd be happier stacking modern AGEs.
If the rarity and 5 oz's of gold grabs you the go for it. You seem to be determined to justify buying this nice, but limited, medal via reinforcement from the forum. You can see the opinions vary quite a lot. You didn't really expect anything different did you?
If you need permission, you have it. Buy it today and enjoy it for the 30 years you have mentioned several times. Have no regrets or buyers remorse. You wanted it and bought it. Good luck to you.
Agree he should just do what he likes but the opinions are interesting to hear.
You already know what you want to do. Just do it. Trying to get us to justify your speculative purchase is a waste of everyone's time.
Please ignore my thread and speculation.... I dont need you to be wasting your time. But one question...
Why are there hundreds of tokens or fantasy issue that are now selling for 100x their original sale price? I dont need to name any we all know examples of it.
To think that a vast amount of forum posters believe this is not going to be a performer someday has me perplexed. Everything points to a dramatic increase in price except that its not a US mint issue...... And I know thats a big one for most.
Name one eith an intrinsic value that high. They're aren't any top my knowledge. 1 oz silver, yes. 5 oz gold, no. Aren't even many 1oz gold
@burlguy said:
To think that a vast amount of forum posters believe this is not going to be a performer someday has me perplexed.
I'm a big fan of this piece but, even for me, to think of it as a performer is a bit of a stretch unless collecting behavior changes. Fantasy coin collectors generally do not pay that much in absolute terms for their fantasy coins. Lower priced coins like silver ones perform much better than high dollar gold ones.
There was a thread worth reading: "Why does it seem DC gold coins do not sell as good on secondary market ?"
You can get a good price for DC gold coins but the market is thin, like patterns, so you have to list with a high price and wait. With DC gold coins, the mintages are generally much smaller than we have here and he as a collector following.
It's a great piece and I would love to have one, but I'd get one because I like it and then sell with a reasonable BIN hoping someone will come along. That's what is done for all traded items like patterns.
I’m posting my following purchase made earlier this year for discussion purposes because of its relevance to the subject matter of this thread, since it combines a High Intrinsic Precious Metal Value (3 Troy Oz Platinum) with a Very Limited Mintage of only 125.
I thought it was an opportune time to make this purchase to take advantage, while the Platinum price was still Significantly Lower than that of Gold.
2008 Great Britain £5 Platinum (3 Troy Oz) Queen Elizabeth I 450 Year Commemorative Piefort Crown (S-4563 Pt)
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
A good upcoming test of the high end fantasy coin market is Dan Carr's St. Gaudens $100 Gold Union. If sales go well for this piece, things could bode will for this Morgan piece as well. If anything, it would be interesting to have 2 gold unions, a Morgan piece and a St. Gaudens piece.
Given that the largest US coins are $50 half union gold slugs, it is interesting to think about a pair of $100 gold unions.
@Stuart said:
I’m posting my following purchase made earlier this year for discussion purposes because of its relevance to the subject matter of this thread, since it combines a High Intrinsic Precious Metal Value (3 Troy Oz Platinum) with a Very Limited Mintage of only 125.
I thought it was an opportune time to make this purchase to take advantage, while the Platinum price was still Significantly Lower than that of Gold.
2008 Great Britain £5 Platinum (3 Troy Oz) Queen Elizabeth I 450 Year Commemorative Piefort Crown (S-4563 Pt)
Sorry for the Shouting which follows:
THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT YOUR BRITISH PLATINUM PIECE HAS GOING FOR IT IS THAT IT IS ALREADY LISTED IN THE SPINK (former Seaby) GUIDEBOOK.
THIS IS SO INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!
That private issue gold medal thingie is unlikely to be listed in any book, anywhere.
@CaptHenway said:
I think he is saying that he has one, and the private mint that made it has offered to buy it back because of the problem the private mint had with the U.S. Treasury.
Meanwhile, here is one on eBay so you can see what he is talking about.
To OP: If my guess is correct, a question: How much is the private mint offering you relative to spot gold? What about the shipping? Something like this needs to go Registered Mail, and it is going to cost you around $45 to ship.
TD
No fair. Why is this company targeted and Carr is allowed to proceed with impunity?
Note that it is likely not be violation of counterfeit laws as it does not include "In God We Trust."
Not true necessarily. The large size, bullion value, etc. might save it though. The standard is whether an ordinary trader without specialized knowledge could be fooled into accepting it as an official government issue. That is a factual question for a jury or judge sitting as a fact finder. Look at what they did to Von Nothaus - none of those look remotely close IMHO but he is now a convicted felon. Actual circulation need not be proven. Mere production is sufficient.
If you would like to see something beautiful worth collecting in a larger gold content, ask Mark to post some of his Libertas.
Sure they have a premium, but one of those stunners would produce less regret.
@MilesWaits said:
If you would like to see something beautiful worth collecting in a larger gold content, ask Mark to post some of his Libertas.
Sure they have a premium, but one of those stunners would produce less regret.
Libertas Americana is something that goes back to Benjamin Franklin (Thomas Jefferson was involved with the delivery too, IIRC) and the French Mint is an institution that has existed and endured for multiple centuries. The Libertas medal was produced in reasonably large quantities at its birth/ inception.
A lot different situation than something that existed only in George Morgan's 'sketchbook'. A lot different situation than an ephemeral business cranking out a modern private issue medal.
Modern Slabbed Libertas gold medals are pricey, though, IMHO stiffly priced.
Thanks @MilesWaits & @BillDugan1959 for tickling my memory. Paradise Found first brought these to my attention a while ago. I did an Ebay search just to see what was being offered. I was surprised by this one being PCGS PF70DCAM, population 10, population higher 0.
Well I failed to pull the trigger and now its up $600 more than it was. I went after silver and smaller gold denominations. I guess one will have to be enough, there is a second 2005 on the bay. I would love to buy both of them but my business expenses are holding me back.
It is (and was) a significant investment.... If you have business expenses (most of us do), then parking such a sum of money for a long term may not be a good idea....as many above have advised. That being said, gold is currently enjoying a significant rise in melt value.... so in hindsight, you could have profited... Decisions, decisions... Cheers, RickO
Comments
There's a slim chance we'll be a socialist country in 30 years. Might have to wait another 30 for the next generation to wise up, get educated and actually earn a living.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Irrelevant to your point here - if you are speculating on the value of bullion, there are more cost effective ways to do it.
History says: not enough to give it collector value
If you need the market to change, it is as likely to change against you as for you.
\
Also irrelevant to your point. A smaller supply against zero demand is still too much.
Irrelevant. See #3. It is still NOT A U.S. COIN. You could melt them all and virtually no one might care.
There will always be a dozen people who could pay $1 million for it. Also irrelevant since that doesn't mean they will.
You already know what you want to do. Just do it. Trying to get us to justify your speculative purchase is a waste of everyone's time.
You want to spend some time, find me a 5 oz gold medal issued by a private mint that has any collector demand now. All such issues are incredibly rare to begin with, yet no one cares. I could literally issue one next week from a local mint in town with a mintage of 1. I could tie it to the Apollo landing or some other seminal event. The world would shrug.
Please ignore my thread and speculation.... I dont need you to be wasting your time. But one question...
Why are there hundreds of tokens or fantasy issue that are now selling for 100x their original sale price? I dont need to name any we all know examples of it.
To think that a vast amount of forum posters believe this is not going to be a performer someday has me perplexed. Everything points to a dramatic increase in price except that its not a US mint issue...... And I know thats a big one for most.
I really like your silver one Timmy Tim
To me, the 5oz gold $100 Union is one of the top fantasy coins. It's one piece that I think about picking up a lot but hasn't made it to the top of the list yet. It has a lot going for it.
Some things that hold it back:
Given that 300 were struck, the number of available pieces is small.
So it has things going for it but some detractions as well. If fantasy coin collectors ever get into that dollar range, things could look interesting.
What's is the downside risk on this fantasy coin? It's a very small percent since it can always be sold to a refinery at close to melt if no one else wants to buy it. What's the downside risk of most coins in this price range?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Agree the low premium over melt limits the downside a lot make makes it attractive from an intrinsic value perspective.
If buying on the basis of melt value, there are lots of ways to do that and add the numismatic value. 4 or more common date higher circulated grade, maybe slabbed, Saint Gaudens would be a safer bet, to me. A series that is very popular and unlikely to diminish in the future. They will undoubtedly hold their value and appreciate accordingly.
If the rarity and 5 oz's of gold grabs you the go for it. You seem to be determined to justify buying this nice, but limited, medal via reinforcement from the forum. You can see the opinions vary quite a lot. You didn't really expect anything different did you?
If you need permission, you have it. Buy it today and enjoy it for the 30 years you have mentioned several times. Have no regrets or buyers remorse. You wanted it and bought it. Good luck to you.
I don't think the goal here is to strictly buy bullion.
And if it was, I'm not too crazy about common date, circulated, old coins due to the odd sizes and metal content. I don't think the prognosis for these coins going into the future is great. I'd be happier stacking modern AGEs.
Agree he should just do what he likes but the opinions are interesting to hear.
Name one eith an intrinsic value that high. They're aren't any top my knowledge. 1 oz silver, yes. 5 oz gold, no. Aren't even many 1oz gold
I'm a big fan of this piece but, even for me, to think of it as a performer is a bit of a stretch unless collecting behavior changes. Fantasy coin collectors generally do not pay that much in absolute terms for their fantasy coins. Lower priced coins like silver ones perform much better than high dollar gold ones.
There was a thread worth reading: "Why does it seem DC gold coins do not sell as good on secondary market ?"
You can get a good price for DC gold coins but the market is thin, like patterns, so you have to list with a high price and wait. With DC gold coins, the mintages are generally much smaller than we have here and he as a collector following.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/971228/d/p1
It's a great piece and I would love to have one, but I'd get one because I like it and then sell with a reasonable BIN hoping someone will come along. That's what is done for all traded items like patterns.
Me thinks that medal is t r o u b l e. Trade it in for some righteous precious metal. IMO. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
I’m posting my following purchase made earlier this year for discussion purposes because of its relevance to the subject matter of this thread, since it combines a High Intrinsic Precious Metal Value (3 Troy Oz Platinum) with a Very Limited Mintage of only 125.
I thought it was an opportune time to make this purchase to take advantage, while the Platinum price was still Significantly Lower than that of Gold.
2008 Great Britain £5 Platinum (3 Troy Oz) Queen Elizabeth I 450 Year Commemorative Piefort Crown (S-4563 Pt)
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
A good upcoming test of the high end fantasy coin market is Dan Carr's St. Gaudens $100 Gold Union. If sales go well for this piece, things could bode will for this Morgan piece as well. If anything, it would be interesting to have 2 gold unions, a Morgan piece and a St. Gaudens piece.
Given that the largest US coins are $50 half union gold slugs, it is interesting to think about a pair of $100 gold unions.
Think of the following in gold:
I will seriously consider it if Dan actually make them.
Sorry for the Shouting which follows:
THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT YOUR BRITISH PLATINUM PIECE HAS GOING FOR IT IS THAT IT IS ALREADY LISTED IN THE SPINK (former Seaby) GUIDEBOOK.
THIS IS SO INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!
That private issue gold medal thingie is unlikely to be listed in any book, anywhere.
Hey...how about a PL Brass for us poor folks......looks like gold....
You might be surprised
Once I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken!
No fair. Why is this company targeted and Carr is allowed to proceed with impunity?
Not true necessarily. The large size, bullion value, etc. might save it though. The standard is whether an ordinary trader without specialized knowledge could be fooled into accepting it as an official government issue. That is a factual question for a jury or judge sitting as a fact finder. Look at what they did to Von Nothaus - none of those look remotely close IMHO but he is now a convicted felon. Actual circulation need not be proven. Mere production is sufficient.
@DerryB
Perhaps a large Gold Private Mint Coin should include the Motto “In GOLD We Trust”!😁 LOL
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
If you would like to see something beautiful worth collecting in a larger gold content, ask Mark to post some of his Libertas.
Sure they have a premium, but one of those stunners would produce less regret.
Libertas Americana is something that goes back to Benjamin Franklin (Thomas Jefferson was involved with the delivery too, IIRC) and the French Mint is an institution that has existed and endured for multiple centuries. The Libertas medal was produced in reasonably large quantities at its birth/ inception.
A lot different situation than something that existed only in George Morgan's 'sketchbook'. A lot different situation than an ephemeral business cranking out a modern private issue medal.
Modern Slabbed Libertas gold medals are pricey, though, IMHO stiffly priced.
Thanks @MilesWaits & @BillDugan1959 for tickling my memory. Paradise Found first brought these to my attention a while ago. I did an Ebay search just to see what was being offered. I was surprised by this one being PCGS PF70DCAM, population 10, population higher 0.
Did I ? Of course I did.
OMG!! Baby....
Well I failed to pull the trigger and now its up $600 more than it was. I went after silver and smaller gold denominations. I guess one will have to be enough, there is a second 2005 on the bay. I would love to buy both of them but my business expenses are holding me back.
It is (and was) a significant investment.... If you have business expenses (most of us do), then parking such a sum of money for a long term may not be a good idea....as many above have advised. That being said, gold is currently enjoying a significant rise in melt value.... so in hindsight, you could have profited... Decisions, decisions...
Cheers, RickO