COMMEMS PEOPLE---COMMEMS !!!!

topstuf · May 7, 2019 8:43AM

Here we are every day lamenting the erosion of the coin market and still not going gaga over COMMEMS !!
The one series that has the potential to interest someone who is NOT familiar with coins.

And.... since they're newer and were issued ...to... coin collectors in the first place, they're far less likely to be messed with other than a dip or two.

So, what's holding you up?

Cougar1978 · May 7, 2019 9:05AM

On fire with them. My primary area specialization.

MFeld · May 7, 2019 9:28AM

@topstuf said:
Here we are every day lamenting the erosion of the coin market and still not going gaga over COMMEMS !!
The one series that has the potential to interest someone who is NOT familiar with coins.

And.... since they're newer and were issued ...to... coin collectors in the first place, they're far less likely to be messed with other than a dip or two.

So, what's holding you up?

If it's potentially sufficiently profitable, a coin doctor will be just as likely to mess with a commem, as he would any other type of coin.

topstuf · May 7, 2019 9:58AM

@MFeld said:

@topstuf said:
Here we are every day lamenting the erosion of the coin market and still not going gaga over COMMEMS !!
The one series that has the potential to interest someone who is NOT familiar with coins.

And.... since they're newer and were issued ...to... coin collectors in the first place, they're far less likely to be messed with other than a dip or two.

So, what's holding you up?

If it's potentially sufficiently profitable, a coin doctor will be just as likely to mess with a commem, as he would any other type of coin.

Yep that's true. But I'd bet the incidence is far less with commems than older circulation coins.

Smudge · May 7, 2019 10:15AM

Modern or classic?

topstuf · May 7, 2019 10:46AM

@Smudge said:
Modern or classic?

Franklin Mint.

ColonelJessup · May 7, 2019 11:06AM

Separating conservation (taking stuff off) from doctoring (putting stuff on", "commems" is simplistic to the tune of 48 different types struck at various mints in various years.

A Calif. will always have more blast than any date/mm Ark, Accordingly, the surfaces take on more vivid colorations. Any doctor, no matter how competent and skillful, is facing the challenge of all varieties of surface textures. The richer the frost, the intensity of reflectivity, the richer the toning will be.

If you wanted to tone or dip every Barber 10c in proof, you'd know that every year 92-98 would have the ideal look and surface qualities to "dazzle". Now consider every 25c of the same years, and then every 50c. Look at the texture of a 1904 10c and see subtle and not so subtle differences that indicate different chemicals or techniques must be used. Certainly the loss of contrast creates a different dynamic for the first interaction with the human eye and the data storage it's connected to. Perhaps a bit far afield, but some observers will get my point. A subset of that has a different generalization on cameo, cameo texture, mirror striations, etc. for the 25c and 50c, with '05 and '06 likewise. And so on, most consistently, year by year throughout the Barber years. Easy-peasy Extremely high quality of manufacture that works for '05 and '06from one mint of one design. There's no way to generalize like that in the commem "series".

Without too much explication, I hope I've given you practical clues on how doctors and all pros analyze surfaces.

My experience over 40 years, particularly early on, informs me that, especially based on technical considerations, the various commem issues are the least likely of all to be AT'ed.

I'd add to that observation that overall, the most vivid toning has come from 5-coin cards and other original issue packaging. Do the Antietam Cards have the same sulfur and other content as the York cards?

@MFeld and I both contributed a lot of dialogue to the PNG Coin Doctoring Definition task force a few years ago. I'm always happy to see his thoughts, complimentary, complementary and contrary, based on his experience

Smudge · May 7, 2019 11:10AM

@topstuf said:

@Smudge said:
Modern or classic?

Franklin Mint.

Pass.

topstuf · May 7, 2019 11:22AM

@ColonelJessup said:

..... Do the Antietam Cards have the same sulfur and other content as the York cards?

================================================

I think the Antietam and Stone Mountains were issued with yellow Jello inside.
The Grants seemed to tend more toward cocoa puffs.

Depression years so the folks got something to eat with their coins.

Broadstruck · May 7, 2019 11:59AM

I've actually felt that someone is AT'g them again and getting better since last winter. Making it into one or the other grading services in 67-68 grades, one so far seen beaned, and moving into major auctions hammering stupid money now instead of just on eBay.

Smudge · May 7, 2019 12:14PM

Some may fear a repeat of the financial beating they took years ago. Although at current prices they do seem attractive.

LindeDad · May 7, 2019 12:20PM

Color seems to really bring out the bids.

topstuf · May 7, 2019 2:01PM

@LindeDad said:
Color seems to really bring out the bids.

BRIGHT gets my attention.

BryceM · May 7, 2019 2:07PM

I think what the colonel is saying is that a knowledgeable expert can take a quick look and say “that’s how they come” or “nah, they aren’t supposed to look like that”. Furthermore, a really savvy doc will try to do work that mimics the real deal already out there.

How’d I do?

291fifth · May 7, 2019 2:14PM

@LindeDad said:
Color seems to really bring out the bids.

It seems to be the only thing that brings out the bids.

ColonelJessup · May 7, 2019 2:36PM

@BryceM said:
I think what the colonel is saying is that a knowledgeable expert can take a quick look and say “that’s how they come” or “nah, they aren’t supposed to look like that”. Furthermore, a really savvy doc will try to do work that mimics the real deal already out there.

How’d I do?

A+

The same red/blue/etc crescent/rainbow progression that can make a Barber 25c look "Wayte Raymond" or "Meyhrig" is very very wrong when a blast-white 1917 Type I 25c has an almost perfectly symmetrical 3-shade rainbow radiating inward a very considerable 10%-12% from the rims.

BryceM · May 7, 2019 2:38PM

Holy cow! I just understood one of the Col’s posts!

ColonelJessup · May 7, 2019 2:47PM

@BryceM said:
Holy cow! I just understood one of the Col’s posts!

Now that you've explained it, so do I

MFeld · May 7, 2019 3:25PM

@BryceM said:
Holy cow! I just understood one of the Col’s posts!

I’m deeply worried for you!😄

DisneyFan · May 7, 2019 4:40PM

Perhaps encouraging the formation of fifty five piece Classic U.S. Silver Commemorative sets would bring new enthusiasm to the commemorative coin collecting.

I'm sure there are many potential commemorative coin collectors who are put off by going all out and accumulating 94 duplicate inexpensive (for the most part) coins in order to complete a 144 coin set collection. For that reason, Classic U.S. Silver Commemorative short sets have been suggested such as the 50 Piece Type Set as well as the smaller PDS (Arkansas, Boone, etc.) and topical (art deco eagles, Civil War, etc.) subsets. However, the 50 coin type set ignores five significant coins - Grant with star, Alabama 2x2 and Missouri 2 star 4 as well as single date and double date Boone and Pilgrim type coins. The additional five coins that would make up an advanced 55 coin type set would add another 20% to the cost of completing the collection in MS64 or MS65 and would represent money well spent.

Cougar1978 · May 7, 2019 4:48PM

In last 2 days sold 3 Classic Commems from online store 2 of which had only a week like this PCGS 65 San Diego. It is a brilliant, white coin, PQ with super cartwheel luster, a real blazer.

Due to its fascinating history an area have decided concentrate in.

DisneyFan · May 7, 2019 7:03PM

@Cougar1978 said:

In last 2 days sold 3 Classic Commems from online store 2 of which had only a week like this PCGS 65 San Diego. It is a brilliant, white coin, PQ with super cartwheel luster, a real blazer.

Due to its fascinating history an area have decided concentrate in.

Beautiful coin. PCGS price guide puts 1936D San Diego at $135. What was your price?

You would think coin dealers would promote coins of their state and stock an inventory of state commemoratives to encourage a "first" coin for a nice collection or to compliment a state quarter collection.

Kkathyl · May 7, 2019 7:13PM

It seems that we have had 2 major changes that make a Good a bad. New technology and efforts to reduce waste like milk spots & laser design make it near impossible to find odd ball gems. Trends in marketing effect the way Doctor visits happen. Toning on Morgan’s lead to chemical pealing and tissue furnace coins. Does not help the mint rather be bureaucratic then serving customer.

I do like the Comm not afraid to say it.

Hallco · May 7, 2019 7:21PM

I have several (Classics) added to my current want list at the moment!

cameonut2011 · May 8, 2019 12:23AM

@topstuf said:
Here we are every day lamenting the erosion of the coin market and still not going gaga over COMMEMS !!
The one series that has the potential to interest someone who is NOT familiar with coins.

And.... since they're newer and were issued ...to... coin collectors in the first place, they're far less likely to be messed with other than a dip or two.

So, what's holding you up?

It's almost like you enjoy watching people lose money...

topstuf · May 8, 2019 5:59AM

If there's any more to lose, these will start showing up in Coinstars.

cameonut2011 · May 8, 2019 12:36PM

@topstuf said:
If there's any more to lose, these will start showing up in Coinstars.

I'm surprised most of the more common issues haven't ended up in a smelter yet. It really is sad. There is a lot of artistry and underlying history to many of the designs.

ricko · May 8, 2019 1:30PM

I like commemoratives... I did a set with one from each state I have lived in.... nine... well, one did not have a commemorative, so I substituted a state token..... Worked for me... I do like the Texas, Oregon and California coins.... Cheers, RickO

winesteven · May 8, 2019 9:20PM

In the current issue (April 2019) of Mark Ferguson's “Rare Coin Strategies”, Kathleen Duncan of Pinnacle Rarities had an interesting article on how pricing has come down dramatically on classic silver commems, and gave some interesting ideas about different types of short sets. I’ve never owned a commem, and after doing some research, I decided over this past weekend to start a 50 coin Type Set, which will consist mainly of 66’s and 67’s. I called Brooklyn Gallery and ordered a Lighthouse Grande G 6 page slab album, and bought my first coin, a Maryland PCGS 66+ w/CAC. Only 49 more to go. Yes, prices can still go lower, but with the drop we’ve had, the downside risk is somewhat minimized, but more importantly, this will give me pleasure as the “hunt” continues.

MrMonkeySwag96 · May 9, 2019 12:18AM

A lot of Early Commems were messed with. Early Commems tend to develop dark, dull, ugly toning. In addition, some Early Commems have strange toning patterns due to their packaging. Some called this "tab toning" and find it unattractive. Thus many Commems were dipped. Original, undipped Commems with even, rainbow toning tend to command high premiums. Many issues such as Layfayette dollars and Hawaii halves have signs of cleaning.

DisneyFan · May 9, 2019 2:57AM

@MrMonkeySwag96 said:
A lot of Early Commems were messed with. Early Commems tend to develop dark, dull, ugly toning. In addition, some Early Commems have strange toning patterns due to their packaging. Some called this "tab toning" and find it unattractive. Thus many Commems were dipped. Original, undipped Commems with even, rainbow toning tend to command high premiums. Many issues such as Layfayette dollars and Hawaii halves have signs of cleaning.

Check out "A Guide Book of United States Commemorative Coins, 2nd Edition" (The Official Red Book) Paperback – November 29, 2016 by Q. David Bowers. He mentions Hawaiians often have a yellowish tint; many think the yellow was the result of overdipping or a bad bath.

Hemispherical · May 9, 2019 3:00AM

@winesteven

Sounds like a lot of fun!

Care to share why those specific years? If not that’s ok, too.

The Grande G is huge! Since your going to be putting in slabbed PM’s it’s going to be heavier than your average slabbed coin. Double check to make sure the slab album pages are snapped shut and threaded through the binder’s four rings before transport. I know there is a sleeve but it’s when it’s not in the sleeve. Hate seeing slabs fall...

winesteven · May 9, 2019 3:41AM

I> @Hemispherical said:

@winesteven

Sounds like a lot of fun!

Care to share why those specific years? If not that’s ok, too.

If you’re asking about “a 50 coin Type Set”, I’m not referring to the year 1950, but the typical Type Set for the Classic Silver Commemorative series consists of 50 coins, starting in 1892 or 1893. BTW, thanks for the tip on the weights.😁

MrMonkeySwag96 · May 9, 2019 3:51AM

@topstuf said:
Here we are every day lamenting the erosion of the coin market and still not going gaga over COMMEMS !!
The one series that has the potential to interest someone who is NOT familiar with coins.

And.... since they're newer and were issued ...to... coin collectors in the first place, they're far less likely to be messed with other than a dip or two.

So, what's holding you up?

Early Commems were issued to both collectors and the non-collecting public. Keep in mind, this was during a time when cleaning was encouraged. Old timers loved "shiny coins." Collectors cleaned their coins. Banks cleaned their coins. The public cleaned their coins. Hence all of the molested Commems in the market. It wasn't until recently that the hobby appreciated toning and originality.

winesteven · May 9, 2019 3:58AM

@DisneyFan said:

Check out "A Guide Book of United States Commemorative Coins, 2nd Edition" (The Official Red Book) Paperback – November 29, 2016 by Q. David Bowers.

Great tip. I just placed my order for it on Amazon for $14.59 plus tax (free Prime shipping), and I’ll have it tomorrow. Thanks.

Pickwickjr · May 9, 2019 3:59AM

I think they are a good buy if you can find the right coin. I love the designs of them and think they are some of the most beautiful coins. I will buy them if I can find a nice toner at a reasonable price. Here’s a nice original Oregon ms66 cac and my favorite Lafayette Dollar

MrMonkeySwag96 · May 9, 2019 4:01AM

@Pickwickjr said:
I think they are a good buy if you can find the right coin. I love the designs of them and think they are some of the most beautiful coins. I will buy them if I can find a nice toner at a reasonable price. Here’s a nice original Oregon ms66 cac and my favorite Lafayette Dollar

That Lafayette dollar is gorgeous. I'm thinking of getting one someday. An AU example is within my budget.

MFeld · May 9, 2019 4:13AM

@MrMonkeySwag96 said:

@topstuf said:
Here we are every day lamenting the erosion of the coin market and still not going gaga over COMMEMS !!
The one series that has the potential to interest someone who is NOT familiar with coins.

And.... since they're newer and were issued ...to... coin collectors in the first place, they're far less likely to be messed with other than a dip or two.

So, what's holding you up?

Early Commems were issued to both collectors and the non-collecting public. Keep in mind, this was during a time when cleaning was encouraged. Old timers loved "shiny coins." Collectors cleaned their coins. Banks cleaned their coins. The public cleaned their coins. Hence all of the molested Commems in the market. It wasn't until recently that the hobby appreciated toning and originality.

I’m not sure how you define “recently”, but it’s been decades that (at least a good sized portion of) the hobby has appreciated toning and originality.

Pickwickjr · May 9, 2019 4:15AM

Thanks for the compliment
I have always liked the design of the Lafayette dollar. I collect mostly dollars (not Morgan’s) so it’s a good addition. It also reminds me of my grandfather, so it’s a win win for me.
I would say hold out for the right one, they are available.

MrMonkeySwag96 · May 9, 2019 4:45AM

@MFeld said:

@MrMonkeySwag96 said:

@topstuf said:
Here we are every day lamenting the erosion of the coin market and still not going gaga over COMMEMS !!
The one series that has the potential to interest someone who is NOT familiar with coins.

And.... since they're newer and were issued ...to... coin collectors in the first place, they're far less likely to be messed with other than a dip or two.

So, what's holding you up?

Early Commems were issued to both collectors and the non-collecting public. Keep in mind, this was during a time when cleaning was encouraged. Old timers loved "shiny coins." Collectors cleaned their coins. Banks cleaned their coins. The public cleaned their coins. Hence all of the molested Commems in the market. It wasn't until recently that the hobby appreciated toning and originality.

I’m not sure how you define “recently”, but it’s been decades that (at least a good sized portion of) the hobby has appreciated toning and originality.

I'm talking about collectors from the late 1800s-1950s

Cougar1978 · May 9, 2019 6:32AM

The 36-D MS65 San Diego went for $165 free shipx. Another classic commem sold this morning.

This market has been heating up especially for brilliant pieces PQ brilliant with super luster. Toned pieces moving too a monster toned Texas went quickly. Many savy new players want PQ coins like the piece above. However others like myself include nice toners and there are buyers. It is a matter of taste.

I think many classic commems a real bargain under $300 so go for the piece you like.

I would love to complete an Oregon Trail set.

COMMEMS PEOPLE---COMMEMS !!!!

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