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How dies were made in 1977. A letter from Bill Fivaz to the US Mint

RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited April 21, 2019 11:17AM in U.S. Coin Forum

Here are a letter from Bill Fivaz and a response relating to US Mint process for making dies in 1977. Since all of this has changed, members might be interested in "what was" before it is forgotten. [I redacted Mr. Fivaz' address - that seems to be a popular thing to do these days... :) ]


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    thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Those experimental coins sound interesting. Any images?

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    kbbpllkbbpll Posts: 542 ✭✭✭✭

    "six or eight impressions" for the hubs and masters, each with an anneal in between, caught my attention. I always thought it was maybe three.

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    ECHOESECHOES Posts: 2,974 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very informative, thanks.

    ~HABE FIDUCIAM IN DOMINO III V VI / III XVI~
    POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
    Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,942 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thisistheshow said:
    Those experimental coins sound interesting. Any images?

    Nope. Same for the experimental 5-cent coins and 2-1/2 cent coins. So far as I am aware, no examples were saved or donated to the Smithsonian -- sad.

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    koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting.

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    thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2019 12:37PM

    @RogerB said:

    @thisistheshow said:
    Those experimental coins sound interesting. Any images?

    Nope. Same for the experimental 5-cent coins and 2-1/2 cent coins. So far as I am aware, no examples were saved or donated to the Smithsonian -- sad.

    Thank you for letting us know.

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 34,303 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I vaguely recall seeing a cu-ni clad coin once with the remains of an indentation around the copper core, but dismissed it as just some sort of damage during the upsetting process. Might have been a Kennedy half.

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2019 4:19PM

    There are some Inco private pattern pieces - machined blanks - matching this description. They look like this:
    Face --

    Overlap edge of above --

    Normal machined blank edge --

    On the above, the blank edge was machined to more clearly show the face cladding and copper core. The upsetting machine would have forced the overlapped faces over the core and hidden the copper. This would have required an additional step plus precise control of blanks for uniform results.

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    HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting! Thanks @RogerB!

    What was the enclosed fact sheet?

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,942 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Hemispherical said:
    Interesting! Thanks @RogerB!

    What was the enclosed fact sheet?

    I don't know. A copy was not with the letter.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,721 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great information @RogerB... Thanks for posting this...I often thought that the interior material could be hidden by using very slightly over sized cladding which would have been 'smeared' up/down in the minting process... reading the above made me realize that would not work... Cheers, RickO

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    StrikeOutXXXStrikeOutXXX Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Would love to see edge pictures of this coin (Similar to the Inco pictures a few posts up)

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    "You Suck Award" - February, 2015

    Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
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    1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 14,157 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks again @RogerB :smile:
    Great history

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2019 9:17AM

    StrikeOutXXX -
    What does the visible part of the edge look like? Could this be an experiential planchet for the Ike test mentioned in McDonald's letter? (Hint - light from the back for best detail.)

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    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,895 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Making planchets like this, striking them, and reporting results seems a good experiment for Dan Carr.

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    StrikeOutXXXStrikeOutXXX Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    StrikeOutXXX -
    What does the visible part of the edge look like? Could this be an experiential planchet for the Ike test mentioned in McDonald's letter? (Hint - light from the back for best detail.)

    No clue - not mine.... @Byers Did you submit these? - any chance you took pictures of the edge before they got entombed?

    https://mikebyers.com/2041215-012.html
    It sold for $275 a month or so ago on eBay by @SullivanNumismatics

    This and others from the hoard were featured in a Mint Error News as well
    https://minterrornews.com/discoveries-11-20-16-previously-unknown-experimental-blanks-and-planchets.html

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    "You Suck Award" - February, 2015

    Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,942 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ike dollars were made on new Schuler dual presses. All Carr has is a rebuilt toggle press. The two machines are not analogous.

    The easiest "test" would be to take some Ike dollars, use a lathe to cut a couple millimeters out of the center edge, then stick 'em in a rivet press.

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    StrikeOutXXXStrikeOutXXX Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The inco piece and the description in the letter from McDonald sort of put the picture in my head of some world coins and their "Security Edge" - granted there would be no beaded design in the middle, but my guess is they tried to duplicate something like this channel down the middle, then fold over the flaps hiding the copper.

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    "You Suck Award" - February, 2015

    Discoverer of 1919 Mercury Dime DDO - FS-101
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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,942 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Byers description is not detailed enough to help.

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