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Nick Foles - did the Eagles make a mistake?

breakdownbreakdown Posts: 1,952 ✭✭✭✭✭

A couple plays go differently in the post-season and Philly might actually have had back to back SB titles or at least been in the Super Bowl back to back with St. Nick. I think the guy has some serious big-game stones and I think his teammates loved playing with him.
Carson Wentz has skills and a big upside but if I was Eagles management, I think I would have tried to do everything I could have to keep the one guy that has won a Super Bowl in Philadelphia (and over the Patriots, no less).
I will be very curious to see how Foles does in Jacksonville.

"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.

Comments

  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,580 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wish Nick Foles all the best and sincerely hope he does well. Except of course when he plays against the Eagles.

    But let's tell it like it is...there weren't exactly a lot of teams beating down the Eagles door to get him.

    To sum up Nick Foles, considering a full NFL season, I think he's a better reliever than a starter. I think him having to play full time towards 16 games will wear him down to the point of ineffectiveness.

    Foles will probably have some shinning moments, but I think overall he will wind up the 2019 season being rated as a below average NFL starting quarterback.

    We shall see. :)

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One can never predict the future. Wentz seems injury prone. I would have stuck with the guy that got you the ring.

  • JRR300JRR300 Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭✭

    can't imagine how he'll rate below average......look at the guys playing QB in the league. Lots of rookies who are learning and a handful of guys who are just not that good. If Jax "D" can get their act together, they could make life real easy for Nick. Have to get him some help in the receiving corps, but their running game could be very solid again. So Nick may not need to do a lot for the situation to turn around. After all, look who he's replacing.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,580 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JRR300 said:
    can't imagine how he'll rate below average......look at the guys playing QB in the league. Lots of rookies who are learning and a handful of guys who are just not that good. If Jax "D" can get their act together, they could make life real easy for Nick. Have to get him some help in the receiving corps, but their running game could be very solid again. So Nick may not need to do a lot for the situation to turn around. After all, look who he's replacing.

    Well the Jaguars certainly are seeing it the way you're seeing it.

    As I've previously mentioned in other posts. What differentiates QB's in the NFL, is not only their talent, but their ability to withstand punishment. The latter is more important given the fact that to get to the NFL, a QB must have a certain level of talent to begin with.

    Of course there are other factors as well such as intelligence and learning the game plan. Which is why a number of so-called "athletic" quarterbacks drafted who have the talent level to be a great NFL QB, don't succeed because they simply aren't smart enough.

    Then there are QB's drafted who have talent and brains, but not the intestinal fortitude necessary to rise to the highest level and stay there for a long career.

    Of course injuries play a part in all of it as well. However unless it's a debilitating injury such as an ACL tear, the great ones in the NFL continue to play at a high level even when they are nicked up a bit.

    Foles is an enigma. He's obviously got the talent, and he's obviously got the brains. And he's obviously got some intestinal fortitude as he helped the Eagles win a Super Bowl. The question is does Foles have enough intestinal fortitude at this point in his career to last through an entire season without developing "happy feet", and I think we all know what that means.

    Once a QB develops "happy feet" which is basically a sarcastic name for a QB who doesn't possess enough courage when 300 pound killers are charging at him, then it's basically over for a QB as a starter.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinstartled said:
    One can never predict the future. Wentz seems injury prone. I would have stuck with the guy that got you the ring.

    Agreed. If I were the Eagles I would have committed to Foles and taken another team to the wood shed with a lopsided trade for Wentz. Or at least tried

  • hammer1hammer1 Posts: 3,874 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Don't know why they didn't franchise tag Foles. It's a one year deal. In that year they could see if Wentz would hold up physically for 16 games.

    With Foles gone, I think Eagles should select a QB with their first, as insurance.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,393 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Seems pretty simple. They got rid of the guy who did it and kept the guy who they hope can do it. Probably the wrong decision.

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,580 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Let's revisit this thread shall we? And there were some other threads just like it on this topic.

    2019 stats:

    Games played:

    Wentz: 16
    Foles: 4

    Yards passing:
    Wentz: 4,039
    Foles: 736

    Touchdown passes:
    Wentz: 27
    Foles: 3

    Quarterback rating:

    Wentz: 93.1
    Foles: 84.6

    I see no need for further examples. This case is now officially closed.

    Now, all the Wentz bashers out there who stated that the Eagles should get rid of Carson Wentz and keep Nick Foles, they may formally submit here a sincere apology admitting to their grievous error in judgment.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Foles went to the hopeless Jacksonville franchise and got injured. Those stats don’t prove anything. Wentz did not get injured this year which was big for him. He was disappointing for a good part of this season. He has come up bigger late this year, but I still don’t think of him as among the best in the league.

    If the Eagles can find a deep threat, like Jackson, who is not injury prone, his Wentz’s prospects might look better, as of now I don’t see him as the guy who will take Eagles to another SB.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,099 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wasn't this the 3rd straight season that Philly's season ended with a Carson Wentz injury leading to another QB having to take over the offense? Congrats,he finally started a playoff game,maybe next year he can make it to halftime. ;)

  • hammer1hammer1 Posts: 3,874 ✭✭✭✭✭

    stevek - I'm not superstitious at all. But maybe you should've waited until after the SB to post this.

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    Seems pretty simple. They got rid of the guy who did it and kept the guy who they hope can do it. Probably the wrong decision.

    Foles reminds me of Kurt Warner. Often pedestrian with seasons of brilliance. He will get another ring. Two is all you need, legacy wise. > @stevek said:

    Let's revisit this thread shall we? And there were some other threads just like it on this topic.

    2019 stats:

    Games played:

    Wentz: 16
    Foles: 4

    Yards passing:
    Wentz: 4,039
    Foles: 736

    Touchdown passes:
    Wentz: 27
    Foles: 3

    Quarterback rating:

    Wentz: 93.1
    Foles: 84.6

    I see no need for further examples. This case is now officially closed.

    Now, all the Wentz bashers out there who stated that the Eagles should get rid of Carson Wentz and keep Nick Foles, they may formally submit here a sincere apology admitting to their grievous error in judgment.

    Eagles season is officially closed as well.

    :*

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Did steve really reopen a thread to highlight the worst bandwagon he ever jumped on?

    RIP steve runover by a bandwagon and dragged 2 years down the road by it :'(

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:
    Wasn't this the 3rd straight season that Philly's season ended with a Carson Wentz injury leading to another QB having to take over the offense? Congrats,he finally started a playoff game,maybe next year he can make it to halftime. ;)

    Tough to blame him for getting knocked out by a dirty hit to the head.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 22,527 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Boy, I'll tell you what, 70 year old Josh Mccown played his heart out, but it just wasn't enough.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,099 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Tabe said:

    @erikthredd said:
    Wasn't this the 3rd straight season that Philly's season ended with a Carson Wentz injury leading to another QB having to take over the offense? Congrats,he finally started a playoff game,maybe next year he can make it to halftime. ;)

    Tough to blame him for getting knocked out by a dirty hit to the head.

    I don't blame Wentz for anything,I just thought it ironic that those two comments were made shortly before he got injured again.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Tabe said:

    @erikthredd said:
    Wasn't this the 3rd straight season that Philly's season ended with a Carson Wentz injury leading to another QB having to take over the offense? Congrats,he finally started a playoff game,maybe next year he can make it to halftime. ;)

    Tough to blame him for getting knocked out by a dirty hit to the head.

    Total cheap shot. In the head, leading with the helmet, when he was obviously going down, from behind.

    What a coward.

    I was in a debate about CLOWNey earlier this year and was told if I watched him play, I would see how great he was, so when the Vikings played the Seahawks, I watched Clownboy on almost every play. He looked pretty lazy anytime he was being blocked, but it looked like he really turned on the effort when he could put a huge hit on someone.

    I think he LIKES to hurt people.

    He certainly wouldn't be the first. See New Orleans Saints 2009-11.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2020 7:54PM

    @JoeBanzai said:

    Total cheap shot. In the head, leading with the helmet, when he was obviously going down, from behind.

    What a coward.

    I was in a debate about CLOWNey earlier this year and was told if I watched him play, I would see how great he was, so when the Vikings played the Seahawks, I watched Clownboy on almost every play. He looked pretty lazy anytime he was being blocked, but it looked like he really turned on the effort when he could put a huge hit on someone.

    I think he LIKES to hurt people.

    He certainly wouldn't be the first. See New Orleans Saints 2009-11.

    Lord have mercy. most shocking post thus far in '20. never in a million years would i have suspected that you would say one word of this. :D

    you're right, Clowney dogged it all game long yesterday. that's why the Eagles resorted to putting a left tackle and TWO tight ends on him at one point. because that's what NFL teams do, especially in the playoffs -- they generally exhaust three of their blockers on a guy who is motorless and makes zero plays. didja happen to catch the play where he tracked down Greg Ward, Jr. -- a wide receiver, mind you -- like a tiger sucking up an antelope? of course you didn't you tool.

    as for the hit, yes it looks bad when you slow it down. as do 99.99% of H2H hits when you do the same. but last i checked, actual game speed is just slightly faster than what you and i see on instant replay. honestly, i don't know how the hell a defender keeps his sanity playing in the NFL; it's getting to the point where it's virtually impossible for you to do your job without being penalized for something that is out of your control more often than not. and speaking of penalties...

    i'd love to prance around without my pants on in your world of cynical speculation, but i typically like to deal in facts:

    first off, there was no damn flag on the play. the ref determined that it was incidental contact.

    second, Wentz eschewed his pampered rights as a QB when he went headfirst to the ground. newsflash: Clowney was allowed to drill him.

    third, if you look closely, which i doubt very seriously you did, Clowney slightly turned his head before he unloaded a shot on him, and in doing so his helmet contacted Wentz's while his shoulder simultaneously tagged him in the back. so since you are seemingly all-knowing, i'd love for you to explain to the masses how exactly you're supposed to hit an opposing player in that instance without illegal contact........when things are moving infinitely faster than what your two eyes witness on instant replay. and i swear, if you say something like he shouldn't have even attempted to hit him, i will never take anything you say serious again.

    fourth, go listen to Jason Peters, the left tackle of the Eagles who was in charge of blocking Clowney. in his postgame interview he states, "i respect him and he respects me." now tell me, why would a teammate of a starting quarterback who was put out to pasture after 8 plays in a postseason game say such things about a coward who delivered a cheap shot?

    you are such a simpleton Banzai

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    hot take-itis , its when you have already made up your mind and you have to fit new events to your pre existing conclusion

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Doesn't matter that Wentz was a standard ballcarrier on that play. Diving headfirst into a guy on the ground has been illegal since forever.

    Whatever else he might have said, Jason Peters called the hit dirty as did Mike Pereira.

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2020 11:49PM

    @Tabe said:

    Doesn't matter that Wentz was a standard ballcarrier on that play.

    clearly it does

    Diving headfirst into a guy on the ground has been illegal since forever.

    if he had dove into Wentz headfirst, his head would have contacted him first. watch the clip. at worst, shoulder hits back (legal) & helmet hits helmet (illegal) simultaneously. if we really want to get technical, his shoulder actually touches his back a nanosecond before there is H2H contact. pause @ :15 and you will see.

    https://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=28429266

    for those calling it a dirty play, that's your prerogative. my contention is that there were only two ways to avoid that happening, given the speed, angle and height that Wentz was (he was nut-high off the ground):

    1) Clowney gives up on the play and doesn't hit him. might as well fold up the sport if it comes to this.

    2) Clowney decapitates himself before he makes that hit. that way when his shoulder meets his back, his head won't be around to create an infraction, or a perceived one.

    if you take the play at face value, it looks dirty and some laundry should have been laying on the field. if you break it down and take multiple factors into consideration, it's not nearly as cut and dried. that's essentially what Shawn Smith was saying, and i'm on board.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No reason to argue with someone with zero knowledge of the rules.

    Illegal to lead/strike with your helmet on tackling any ballcarrier.

    Illegal to hit any ballcarrier in the head.

    Illegal (and then twice as bad) to then hit ballcarrier in head with your helmet.

    Illegal to hit defenseless ballcarrier. Worse yet, he hit him from behind! Wentz couldn't brace for the hit or try to avoid being smashed in the head.

    Wentz's knee had already hit the ground before CLOWNbag hit him, so add late hit to the list.

    I get a huge laugh at the "he didn't give himself up" crock of $heet, he was already tackled and was then crushed from behind. Doesn't matter that he was a QB, rules apply to every player with possession of the ball. You can't hit them in the head!

    Dirty play by gutless cowardly pig, trying to injure an opposing player.

    His arms were nicely tucked in so he could "spear" Wentz in the_ back of the head_. Possibly the most obvious attempt to injure an opponent ever. When attempting a legal tackle, you have your arms out reaching for the opponent to "wrap him up", this was not that at all. Or he could have been reaching in to try to cause a fumble, NO he was trying to inflict as much damage as he could given the opportunity that was presented.

    No excuse for officials missing the call, they blew it! "Incidental helmet to helmet" yeah sure. Ask Wentz how incidental it was.

    ANYONE who doesn't think SOME players try to intentionally hurt other players are idiots. Especially the star player on the other team and a QB that runs and then doesn't slide is top of that list. New Orleans actually paid players bonuses for injuring players, do you believe that was some kind of isolated example?

    No more needs to be said from me on the subject.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    wentz is a ginger so all is justified

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2020 11:45AM

    some mind-numbing stuff you posted up above, Banzai. undoubtedly, "Wentz's knee had already hit the ground before 'clownbag' hit him, so add late hit to the list" takes the cake. so let me get this straight, in addition to his requisite duties as a defensive end, Clowney also has to find a way to miss every fraction of a helmet while moving 15+ mph no matter the angle, position or potential future movement of the opposing player, AND be able to freeze his entire 270 pounds within a millimeter of said opposing player's body if a knee happens to kiss a blade of grass. now that's a herculean effort right there. what an imbecile you are, seriously.

    and as far as not having any reason to argue with someone with zero knowledge of the rules, i guess you won't be engaging in discourse with Shawn Smith anytime soon. try reading what he said again, and this time take note of the usage of "we"........multiple times. in other words, the entire officiating crew took a less myopic approach to that play and reached a consensus. you, on the other hand, would refuse to exercise your handful of brain cells and instead lazily lob your flag like a hand grenade any chance you got, thereby prostituting the sport to the Nth degree. oh what a joy it would be to play in the Banzai Pussy League............average total points scored in a game & the number of tide pods used to clean the flags after it would be 147

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2020 4:17PM

    galaxy27,

    If the officials are going to misidentify what Clowney did as "incidental" contact then, no, it doesn't matter if the guy is a ballcarrier or not. The officials were wrong and didn't go look at the video because they didn't want to be shown they were wrong.

    Clowney pull his arms back and dove headfirst into a guy on the ground. That was spearing in 1973, it's spearing today.

    Clowney intentionally contorted his body so as to lead with his head. He made contact with his helmet to Wentz's helmet first. At worst, it's simultaneous with the shoulder as you said.

    I don't expect Clowney to not make contact or to not hit Wentz. But I do expect him to, you know, use tackling form rather than spearing the guy.

  • JRR300JRR300 Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭✭

    No matter what you say here, a player is not allowed to hurl himself head first and attempt to contact the helmet of the other player! Doesn't matter if he's a wideout, running back, QB, etc. This isn't the Roman empire where we send our gladiators into the ring to kill or be killed. The game is to be played with player safety a priority. I hate to see these older players who we idolized as kids who can barely walk or speak in their later years because of the reckless hits they took when they played the game.

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    not only was no flag thrown, but the NFL reviewed the hit and Clowney wasn't even fined

    enjoy that crow, fellas

    :D

  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,580 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @hammer1 said:
    stevek - I'm not superstitious at all. But maybe you should've waited until after the SB to post this.

    You're exactly right.

    I definitely jinxed it and take full responsibility.

    The Eagles front office has informed me that they are contemplating appropriate punishment. It may include a stiff fine and not allowing me to watch the first four Eagles games next season. :/

  • jay0791jay0791 Posts: 3,508 ✭✭✭✭

    I am in the opinion it was not a dirty hit at all.
    Maybe we should turn the NFL into a flag FB league.

    Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets
    1948-76 Topps FB Sets
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  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jay0791 said:
    I am in the opinion it was not a dirty hit at all.
    Maybe we should turn the NFL into a flag FB league.

    jay you can lead old horses like banzai and tabe to water, but you cant make them drink

    🐴🐴

  • jay0791jay0791 Posts: 3,508 ✭✭✭✭

    I am merely giving an opinion and give others to the same courtesy.
    J C can be a game changer. Aaron Donald gets 2X teamed as well. If he doesn't he is a wrecking ball.
    Last week IMO the Viking receiver pushed off and Offensive pass interference should have been called.
    Result of a ref no call and changed the game.

    I go back to Deacon Jones and his famous head slap trying to ring the head bell on his opponent.
    The newer rules are great for safety but do manage to take away part of the traditional game.
    With the guys of today: bigger, stronger, faster there is a place for safety

    Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets
    1948-76 Topps FB Sets
    FB & BB HOF Player sets
    1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    it's very unfortunate what happened to Wentz, but honestly he has no one to blame but himself. simply put, he has to play smarter and do a better job of protecting himself, especially with his history of injuries. the moment Bradley McDougald came up to greet him it was time to hit the deck -- feet first. instead, he tried to juke him and gain extra yardage. memo to Carson: McDougald is a safety and feeds his family by making open-field tackles; unless your initials suddenly change from CW to LJ during that play, the probability of you leaving his jock strap on the ground is next to nil.

    next thing you know, that imprudent decision placed Wentz right smack dab in the danger zone because there was a 270-lb bear making a beeline to get him. then, football happened. no one in the universe would have ever talked about that specific play again had Wentz not suffered a concussion. but because he did, brilliant minds like banzai and tabe are up in arms, clamoring for a grand jury to be assembled.

    thankfully the league restored order by doing absolutely nothing

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:
    it's very unfortunate what happened to Wentz, but honestly he has no one to blame but himself. simply put, he has to play smarter and do a better job of protecting himself, especially with his history of injuries. the moment Bradley McDougald came up to greet him it was time to hit the deck -- feet first. instead, he tried to juke him and gain extra yardage. memo to Carson: McDougald is a safety and feeds his family by making open-field tackles; unless your initials suddenly change from CW to LJ during that play, the probability of you leaving his jock strap on the ground is next to nil.

    next thing you know, that imprudent decision placed Wentz right smack dab in the danger zone because there was a 270-lb bear making a beeline to get him. then, football happened. no one in the universe would have ever talked about that specific play again had Wentz not suffered a concussion. but because he did, brilliant minds like banzai and tabe are up in arms, clamoring for a grand jury to be assembled.

    thankfully the league restored order by doing absolutely nothing

    It was kinda like Jimmy G trying to get a 1st down last year and instead losing the rest of the season.

    QB is the most important player on the field he has to use his brain if he wants to play a full season

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27 said:
    . but because he did, brilliant minds like banzai and tabe are up in arms, clamoring for a grand jury to be assembled.

    thankfully the league restored order by doing absolutely nothing

    Mike Pereira agrees with me. Sometimes being right is solitary. I can live with that. It's not like the NFL has never gotten it wrong in the past - suspending Brady for nothing, giving Ray Rice only 2 games initially, continuing to honor & employ Ray Lewis, and so on.

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