PCGS Restoration

bosox · March 31, 2019 5:23PM

I have a $5K copper coin in a PCGS holder (older blue holder). I has started to develop a small PVC spot. Two questions:

Does PCGS restoration remove PVC from copper coins?

If they cannot remove it, or if they do remove it and the grade is lower, does the grade guarantee apply?

I have never submitted a coin to them for restoration, so thanks in advance for any information on what to expect.

thefinn · March 31, 2019 5:29PM

I have been able to remove PVC from copper without affecting the color using dichloromethane, but me doing it would require regrading.
The PVC would have been on the coin when it was slabbed, but changes in storage may have made it more visible. PCGS will have to answer your question. I would think that their guarantee would kick in, but companies like to defer liability when money is involved.

Hemispherical · March 31, 2019 5:47PM

@bosox

Definitely call before you do anything with a $5K coin.

——-

PCGS customer service department Monday - Friday 7:00am - 5:00pm Pacific Time.

In the United States call toll free at 800-447-8848. Outside the United States call 949-833-0600.

lkeigwin · March 31, 2019 7:23PM

@bosox said:
I have a $5K copper coin in a PCGS holder (older blue holder). I has started to develop a small PVC spot. Two questions:

Does PCGS restoration remove PVC from copper coins?

If they cannot remove it, or if they do remove it and the grade is lower, does the grade guarantee apply?

I have never submitted a coin to them for restoration, so thanks in advance for any information on what to expect.

Are you sure it's PVC and not verdigris?

Regardless, if PCGS thinks restoration can help they will try. The grade guarantee applies. So if it has to downgrade a payout will follow.
Lance.

winesteven · March 31, 2019 8:27PM

Actually, while the PCGS website in their Restoration section says “Coins are covered by the PCGS Guarantee of Grade and Authenticity”, if they accept a coin they will NOT downgrade it. Dig deeper in that section on their site, and you’ll see “Restoration Dos and Don'ts -
Submitting a coin for PCGS Restoration in no way guarantees the upgrade of your coin. If the coin is already in a PCGS holder, it is guaranteed not to downgrade, nothing more.”

As such @bosox, I suggest you call them to confirm what I posted, and assuming my understanding is confirmed to be correct, definitely submit it for Restoration. Worst case, if they don’t accept it, your cost is only $10 plus round trip shipping. If they do accept it, your coin will be “in better health” going forward, will look better, and might possibly be upgraded with no risk of a downgrade. If you do submit it, please follow up with a post of your result, along with before and after photos, if possible.

ricko · April 1, 2019 5:32AM

I would be very interested in seeing pictures of the area in question... Certainly contacting PCGS should be a priority. If restoration is done, a picture of the result would be very informative. Cheers, RickO

Broadstruck · April 1, 2019 5:34AM

It's growing verdigris not PVC.

lkeigwin · April 1, 2019 6:39AM

@winesteven said:
Actually, while the PCGS website in their Restoration section says “Coins are covered by the PCGS Guarantee of Grade and Authenticity”, if they accept a coin they will NOT downgrade it.

This is not quite right. As I said above, the guarantee applies. In the unlikely event that a coin must downgrade PCGS will make a guarantee-payout.

PCGS will downgrade a coin that doesn't deserve its current grade. This is true for all services. It is rare but it happens from time to time.
Lance.

winesteven · April 1, 2019 6:46AM

@Ikeigwin, you might be correct. However, the confusing part is on their site in the Restoration section they clearly say "If the coin is already in a PCGS holder, it is GUARANTEED NOT TO DOWNGRADE, nothing more.” (The caps are mine, not theirs).

Insider2 · April 1, 2019 7:50AM

@Broadstruck said:
It's growing verdigris not PVC.

Did you get to see the coin before you posted?

bosox · April 1, 2019 12:07PM

Thanks. I will call them.

lkeigwin · April 1, 2019 11:17PM

@lkeigwin said:

@winesteven said:
Actually, while the PCGS website in their Restoration section says “Coins are covered by the PCGS Guarantee of Grade and Authenticity”, if they accept a coin they will NOT downgrade it.

This is not quite right. As I said above, the guarantee applies. In the unlikely event that a coin must downgrade PCGS will make a guarantee-payout.

PCGS will downgrade a coin that doesn't deserve its current grade. This is true for all services. It is rare but it happens from time to time.
Lance.

I hear you. PCGS could have worded it better. DW addressed this in a post around the time PCGS used that language.

It's like any other guarantee. "We guarantee your vacuum cleaner will not fail!" When it fails you get compensated.

As I said, it's a rare problem. PCGS hates to make payouts.
Lance.

bosox · April 3, 2019 3:38PM

I have been rooting around in the PCGS guarantee page. Even though my coin has been stored in bank boxes in California and Nevada (both pretty arid places), I am guessing I will run into this language in their guarantee. Has anybody had any experience with the PCGS guarantee and copper coins developing problems in the slab?

"Coins that are environmentally damaged. The PCGS holder, while excellent for long term storage and protection, does not protect coins from harsh environmental conditions. Consequently, the PCGS Guarantee does not apply to coins which have been environmentally damaged. For example, if your coins are damaged in a flood or fire, the PCGS Guarantee would not apply to those coins. This also applies to copper coins stored in environmentally risky locations (high humidity, see next paragraph.)
Coins exhibiting environmental deterioration. The PCGS Guarantee does not apply to coins exhibiting environmental deterioration subsequent to PCGS grading and encapsulation. This deterioration may include, but is not limited to, spotting, hazing, PVC contamination, changes in color, and corrosion.
IMPORTANT: Because the color and surfaces of copper coins can change due to environmental factors, including weather and improper storage, PCGS does not guarantee against changes in the color of copper coins, or against copper spotting subsequent to grading and encapsulation by PCGS."

Broadstruck · April 3, 2019 4:02PM

Could you please post a link for the current PCGS guarantee as I can't find it.

BG · April 3, 2019 4:27PM

I thought PCGS stopped guaranteeing copper years ago?

There is probably a thread about it. Ill do a search.

A thread from 2009:

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/753650/pcgs-copper-guarantee-controversy-my-thoughts

bosox · April 3, 2019 7:04PM

In reading the older posts on the copper guarantee, it appears that if I have owned the coin since before the change in the guarantee went into effect, I may be covered, even though the guarantee policy does not say that. I bought the coin submitted the coin for grading in 2004 and have owned it continuously since then.

For some of you older hands here, is my understanding correct. If I owned the coin before 1/1/2010, does the guarantee still apply to my coin?

https://www.pcgs.com/guarantee

Hemispherical · April 3, 2019 7:32PM

@bosox

I’d call CS.

PCGS customer service department Monday - Friday 7:00am - 5:00pm Pacific Time.

In the United States call toll free at 800-447-8848. Outside the United States call 949-833-0600.

lkeigwin · April 3, 2019 8:30PM

@bosox said:
In reading the older posts on the copper guarantee, it appears that if I have owned the coin since before the change in the guarantee went into effect, I may be covered, even though the guarantee policy does not say that. I bought the coin submitted the coin for grading in 2004 and have owned it continuously since then.

For some of you older hands here, is my understanding correct. If I owned the coin before 1/1/2010, does the guarantee still apply to my coin?

https://www.pcgs.com/guarantee

Yes it does. I have recently benefited from it and received a payout.

Of course you need to be able to prove your ownership since prior to 1/1/10. Mine have been in my PCGS inventory since before then. Good enough.

PCGS doesn't talk about this, of course. But you are smart to be alert to the terms announced almost 10 years ago.
Lance.

PCGS Restoration

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