Are you (and your collection) ready to for a disaster?
ShadyDave
Posts: 2,217 ✭✭✭✭✭
Over the last year, many of us have followed the various natural disasters that have affected parts of the United States in 2018. Wildfires, hurricanes, flooding, tornadoes etc. have devastated Americans and fellow collectors and will continue to do so. There are also other types of disasters that could affect each of us: theft, environmental damage, bankruptcy, divorce, an unexpected death etc. Having seen these events unfold regularly on this forum has motivated me to re-evaluate how I am protected, prepared and what my plan would be if a local or personal disaster occurred to me. I suggest you do the same!
These are some details I took thought about:
1: Would I be able to easily assemble and pack up my collection if I have to evacuate or leave quickly?
2: Do I have an accurate and up-to-date inventory of my collection?
3: Would I be able to identify coins in my collection if they were stolen or lost in the mail?
4: Is my collection safe from water, fire, theft etc.?
5: Is there anything I could do to improve the security around my collection?
6: Do I know the current value of my collection and cost basis?
7: What kind of insurance coverage do I have? Would an umbrella policy, homeowners policy, USPS shipping insurance or a rider actually cover coin/bullion losses?
These are the steps I took:
1: I "cleaned" up my collection by putting raw coin in 2x2's and boxes to make it more organized. I also sold off the piles junk that I accumulated over the years that I don't care about and/or don't collect anymore. This made my wife happy to declutter and this exercise helped me figure out what the heck I actually have in my possession. Over time stuffs spreads out, so keeping it isolated to one room helps keep my collection corralled. This also helps with items going "missing" if you have kids or frequently host parties/gatherings at your home.
2: I bit the bullet and audited and inventoried my slabbed coin collection for posterity (I have too many raw coins to do this). I created an excel spreadsheet and added the slab information, purchase price, purchase date and estimated value. I had to go back through ebay, HA, GC and other buying venues to find purchase prices and purchase dates for many of my other coins and I couldn't find all of them. I included instructions in the excel spreadsheet for my wife/heirs on how to determine value and what/where to sell coins and who to solicit advise from. This spreadsheet was uploaded to my external hard-drive and my email.
3: I gathered ALL of my slabs, took a quick clear picture of each side of each slab and copied them to my external hard-drive. I also like PCGS's TruViews, so I spend the extra $5 on "gold shield" when I get a coin graded and add those to my files as well. This would assist me identify my coins in the future if I ever needed to or to file an insurance claim.
4: This section incorporates both #4 and #5. I don't want to share too many details on this one for my own security, however, I validated that any safety deposit boxes, safes, P.O. Boxes and other layers of protection I use are in place and working properly. Checking SDB's and safes at least quarterly to make sure moisture isn't an issue is a good practice. Technology is our friend and should be leveraged by all collectors as well. Security cameras are very affordable and easy to self-install. Many have phone apps and alerts that you can manage/monitor while away from your home. Dogs, outdoor flood lights, firearms, alarms (or you can purchase a few ADT signs off ebay to stick in your front and backyard), good locks (that actually get locked) are all great deterrents as well. Thiefs want easy marks and little resistance, so if you lock your doors, have a barking dog and some ADT signs in your yard, they will probably choose your neighbors house instead of yours. Also remember, "Loose Lips Sink Ships". Don't be an easy mark by bragging about you million dollar coin collection to strangers. You never know anyones intention or who else they might talk about you to.
5: See above.
6: By having an accurate inventory, I am able to ESTIMATE the value of my slabbed collection for my financial/insurance purposes. Again, I have too many raw coins to do this exercise by assigning a value/grade on. Having an estimated value of my slabbed collection gives my wife an estimate of its worth in case something happens to me. This would help her have the general knowledge of what a realistic price would be and as noted above, I included instructions on how to validate current values, and who to contact for advise and where to sell. This would give her a starting point and a fighting change of not getting completely burned.
7: Insurance is complicated by design and understanding insurance policies you have are paramount. Insurance on your coin collection is necessary if losing it would mean a catastrophic financial loss to you. Insurance is peace of mind, however, if you have a good security system in place, or can self-insure, it may not be necessary...everyone's situation and risk tolerance is different. Most standard homeowner insurance policies cover minimal amounts of cash, bullion and currency, usually up to $500. Specific additional riders for "collections" or "bullion", just like jewelry may be necessary to have in order to have coverage. If you are unsure whether your collection is covered, odds are it isn't...Talk with your Insurance company or agent! The ANA offers very affordable coin collection insurance through Hugh Woods. It is the cheapest insurance I have been able to find for my particular circumstances and it has very minimal documentation requirements. Understanding USPS/FEDEX/UPS insurance coverage is important for those of us who frequently buy/sell. **For the most part **USPS insurance WON'T cover numismatic/collectible losses unless the package is shipped via registered mail. I am not familiar with FEDEX/UPS, so I will defer there. UPIC insurance is a good alternative for shipping insurance, however, you should do your own research and figure out what the best is for you.
Thanks for taking the time to read this. These are all of my PERSONAL ideas/feelings and experience. I have luckily not had a disaster occur(knock on wood), however, after taking the steps noted above, I feel confident that I am prepared as best as I can. Each of us has different circumstances, so your miles may vary. Please share your own advice, critique and question what I posted. I would like people to share personal stories of their insurance claims, police reports or stories of avoiding a potential disaster as well. We can all learn from each-others mistakes and near misses!
Comments
I think you got it covered! Thanks for sharing. I have a small collection so it’s easier to grab and run if needed.
1) I would say leave something in your estate for your loved one on how to sell the collection so they are not taken advantage of.
2) I’m not a fan of safety deposit box, I like having a safe I can get to anytime nights weekends you get the idea.
3) insurance and photos very important to show the evidence for you insurance company, keep you invoices have evidence of value.
3) keep cash on hand in your safe in a go bag always be prepared.
4) have a plan make sure everyone knows where to meet if something happens, wife at work kids at school and practice it!
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
It's safer in a safety deposit box, but I'll tell you this; The environment of the safe at the bank is never stable. Your coins can tone an environmental damage.
I prefer my safe and your coins are not insured in either place the bank or the safe, unless you purchase a very expensive insurance policy. The ANA used to offer coin insurance. I am not a member anymore so, I am not sure if it's still offered.
I do appreciate that run down Shadydave very informative.
For your graded PCGS coins you can keep track of them with the "my inventory" part of the set registry. Nothing else needed.
I see you're a fellow prepper
. Keeping a variety of cash at home from big bills to small is very important. Back in 2011 I was stuck in the middle of the "Halloween Nor'Easter" and my area (highly populated) was without power for almost 10 days... and this is what started me down the "prepping" road. Not being able to use a credit card or able to get cash out of an ATM to buy gas, food, fuel was a wake-up call and will never happen again.
The ANA still has a partnership with Hugh Woods for discount "group" insurance. Here's a good thread on the benefits they offer. I posted screenshots of the services they offer and the application from a few years ago (that I'm sure are outdated now).
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/11673893#Comment_11673893
Good information, but not all disasters affect real and personal property.
Gotta look out for health and welfare of self and loved ones more so than even one would do for things which can be replaced.
The only disaster I worry about is being broken into while I'm at home. Home invasions are scary as hell. I am locked and loaded. When I'm with my coins is what worries me. Fires, floods, etc I'll just put in for the insurance. I've done a video of my coins and then put it on my computer and daughter's computer (miles away). Insurance company should like to view it.
bob
Insurance policies are still available through ANA/Robert Wood and they are not expensive for most collectors. If you've got $500K in coins for example I don't know what kind of premiums that would require.
i think you have some really good advice here. nice work!
your post made me think of a story i read about a wwII era jacket that had double eagles sewn into it. i want that for my 'go' jacket!
Yes
A lot of good advice here.
While not on purpose, the shape of our yard and deck is such that we can easily step into the boat right from the deck. Ha ha ha
I agree 100%, that's why many people use safety deposit boxes.
Excellent post, and something we should all consider...not just for our coin collection. Disasters happen and will always happen... so preparation - as well as one can prepare for the unexpected - is critical. Cheers, RickO
Makes you think about having a closet full of unopened mint boxes. At some point they peak and even start to lose value, so why keep them? Same with boxes and boxes of low value proof and mint sets. Personally I’d sell all the bulk for one or two good coins that are easy to move around.
After watching @crazyhounddog house burn so completely it has me reevaluating many things.
Mostly the wisdom of building a home on my getaway property. We have always gotten firer here as well, but I don’t know if I can stomach the heartbreak after really looking at it logically. Up until now, the master plan has been to build a nice sized primary living home here in the Hills in about 10 years when the kids are more less out of the picture.
As beautiful living here would be, I’m starting to think that building a modern structure and filling it with all my precious things and then basically stacking lumber all around it may not be very wise. One forest service guy said picture a winter blizzard then imagine every snowflake a spark. Wind can blow it literally miles. All it would take is a few bad dry years and lightning and this place will be scorched to dirt.
We’re now thinking maybe a modest tiny house for camping and or just continue to camp out of the bus and tents and call it a day.
That’s a nice piece of land you have there👍🏻
Yes I plan on putting up some do and don’ts here pretty quick. I will share my experience with you all.
CHD
You can start out with a metal roof. Can’t say enough good things about a metal roof. Clear your property of fuel at least 30’ away from your home if in wildfire turf/land. I will for sure elaborate on this subject very soon.
ShadyDave - Excellent suggestions for all collectors (not just of coins) to be prepared for unexpected events.
Those who want to dig deeper into this can look for professional articles on the subjects of "Risk Assessment," "Risk Mitigation," 'Personal Asset Disaster Recovery," and practical documentation of home and personal assets.
If society goes to hell-in-a-handbasket, having cash around (the paper type) probably won't help much................ you'll need silver & gold (and guns!)
My collection IS a disaster.
A SHTF scenario is the least of my worries these days.
BAJJERFAN: Hopefully mine as well, but it's sobering to think that much of what we have is an "electronic trail" that could either be wiped out or severely interfered with in a disaster or hack attack........ And suddenly the "haves" would find themselves as "have-nots", and seriously unprepared - - even in the best of season/weather..................
This is such a Great Thread! Thanks OP. I was thinking as I read this in the event of a worst case scenario and you had to evacuate how would you go about taking let’s say 250 ozs of gold bullion with you if they were all in 1oz coins? How would you conceal it? Ect
Sometimes, the simple stuff is the stuff that can be done. I am NOT a prepper person, but believe in basic caution and preparation. I was an Army Ranger, and we had to make do in the cesspools of the world.
For example, I am on a volunteer chain saw team. We go into areas right a disaster (mostly hurricane) and clear trees off homes, driveways, etc. I always carry a good chunk of cash, small bills, and quarters, as in many places, there are no working banks, ATM's, and credit cards don't work.
I carry several power adapter cords, in case someone needs to charge a different type of phone or their cord gives out.
Although I am not a medical professional, I carry a VERY nice first aid kit, including some high end medial gear for stitching and wound closure. While working in Honduras on a water project, we had another American drop a piece of roofing steel, razor sharp, on his calf, and it sliced deep, about 2 1/2" wide, through skin, fat, muscle, almost to the bone. The kit earned its worth that day.
I carry combination tools, rope, plastic bags, a compass, mirror, whistle, etc. in a waterproof bag when we are out in the boon sticks.
We did the house walk through video, basic inventory of the $$ stuff, and there are copies with the insurance, safe deposit box, and with one adult child in their safe deposit box in another state.
On the humorous side, after the walk through, my wife and I discussed how much of the "stuff" we have, should the house and all contents magically "poof" tomorrow, and maybe 10% we would actually replace. The 50+ years of coin collection wound up in the "not replaced" side of the line.
What use are bits of metal without a monetary system to back up their value? Ammo, fuel, food, and medicine are the currency of the SHTF situation.
Excellent thread.
In some disasters you may need to shelter in place. Non perishable food, water, medicine, medical supplies, sanitary products, blankets, heaters, etc are essential (depending on climate of course). These are all things that must be purchased in advance.
As to bullion etc, if things really got so bad as to be in a barter system firearms, ammunition and the skills to use them would be far more important than bullion.
Re SDBs for coins, I make it a point to get ones as high up as possible. Flooding from fire hoses is one of the most damaging things after a fire - be it at home or a bank.
I was listening to the coverage of the Lee County Alabama tornado and I thought of this thread.
The tornado was an f-4. In some areas it was a mile wide with winds up to 170 miles per hour. They said for most people the time from the warning to the impact was 4 minutes or less. Among the over 20 dead were three children ages 6, 9 and 10.
Then I think of the fires out West last year that left large swaths of area looking like it was hit by a nuclear bomb and many of those people had very very little notice.
I absolutely cannot imagine how horrific it must be to have everything in your life, your community your neighborhood everything just gone in an instant out of absolutely nowhere.
Then you look at the actor that just died of a massive stroke at 52 today.
It's pretty sobering stuff. You realize that you can't take any day for granted much less any hour because you just don't know what the future brings.
When you look at these people in the path of the tornado and you listen to them it's just heartbreaking.
Obviously some of the stuff you can never prepare for in terms of physically saving your collection.
Of course these types of things bring home what's really important which is your health and your family and your loved ones.
ummm, my collection is already a disaster. does that count somewhat?
I feel like most of my collection is pretty secure from disasters where I have it. I have guns and lots of ammo, which would be more important than cash/gold if something REALLY bad really happened. I also have several family members with farms/land, which is a plus.
Well thought out thought provoking post, thanks for posting.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
It's big mistake to count on rural land for safety.
Maybe when things are...."normal".... it has less traffic and outsiders are very conspicuous.
Let things go to heck and the smart folks will be organizing in cities and becoming brutal.
Wherever the ...ultimate.... safe house is located, it should be no problem to torch it if needed.
Yep.
Gimme a loyal cadre of vicious people who are all READY for bad stuff. Also learn to loot early.
Fun? Nope, but I'll take a big building that I can see a long way from.
A ....siege.. is where rural fails.
Dirty stuff but real.
Who has a good recipe for rat?
Many of us own cellphones with cameras or camcorders or other recording devices. It is a good idea to photograph or record video of your collections if you haven't already. Just as important is to perform the same task with your home and ALL the belongings inside your home. Walk through your home with your cell phone or camera recording and go through each room/closet/drawer one at a time to record video of what you own. It can save you a ton of hassles and can help remind you of what you own(ed) and can act as documentation to get fair value in case a disaster suddenly strikes.
Below is a "famous" comment that was posted on Reddit by an insurance adjuster explaining the importance of documentation and how to get the most out of a homeowners insurance claim. It is an anecdote, but the overall message is to document your belonging as best as possible.
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