GAG on CAC
Paradisefound
Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
Please hit search .... for the past CAC threads rather than creating another "Inquire want know CAC" survey type of trolling and I bet you would find everything you wished to know about this popular subject.
Let's alleviate un-necessary arguments amongst us 
20
Comments
I gag with you and vomit on occasion!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Rainbow Toned vomit
Not just look at previous threads.....BUT.... read the replies in those threads. Your questions will most likely be answered as said above.
If you are looking at one of the several CAC threads posted previously.... PLEASE .... read at least most of the posts before you make a new one that asks the same question asked, sometimes, in a post one or two above your new post.
This does not just apply to CAC threads but all threads.
End of Public Service Message.
CAC,Quack,Crack! Not a whole lotta difference IMHO!
Don't let any sticker ruins your friendship
Dang! I haven't even had a chance to start my own CAC thread. You don't want me to do one now?
But some of the best ones have been poofed already!
And to think I was thinking of starting another poll... Is the CAC gold sticker inconsistent and should would go to an all green policy?
It took me 30 years, after PCGS began, for me to warm up to plastic tombs. If it takes me 30 years to warm up to CAC I'll be in my 100's and just won't give a damn any longer....
bob
Lets make this the official CAC thread!
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
I'll start us off. If a CAC rejected coin is dreck and a particular coin is submitted to CAC failing the first time, but succeeding on the second attempt, is the coin:
a) dreck
b) half dreck
c) a knock-out coin and every "CAC-only" collector's dream
Extra Credit: At what point in the process did the coin change?
These are the things that keep me up at night!
INYNWHWeTrust-TexasNationals,ajaan,blu62vette
coinJP, Outhaul ,illini420,MICHAELDIXON, Fade to Black,epcjimi1,19Lyds,SNMAN,JerseyJoe, bigjpst, DMWJR , lordmarcovan, Weiss,Mfriday4962,UtahCoin,Downtown1974,pitboss,RichieURich,Bullsitter,JDsCoins,toyz4geo,jshaulis, mustanggt, SNMAN, MWallace, ms71, lordmarcovan
CAC keeps a secret data base of rejected coins so they don't accidentally approve it if it's resubmitted. I guess they don't trust themselves to be consistent with their evaluations.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I don't normally talk about CAC. However, I would say the company has an advantage because the coins have been graded and slabbed and given a tracking number so the only thing CAC does is agree or disagree and log it in the system. If the same coin shows up again in the same slab they will obviously know it. Whether they change their opinion or not, I have no idea. I don't knock the company, its well respected by a lot of numismatist.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Yup. A low overhead operation---a computer and a few rolls of stickers. They don't even have any liability if they sticker a coin that's over graded or even counterfeit. If such a situation arises they'll just send it back to PCGS or NGC and let them fix it at their expense.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
This is a general problem. People do NOT read the threads, they just throw redundant or sometimes erroneous posts up.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
This is simplistic.
With resubmissions, they wouldn't know if it was the same coin or not.
The need to agree/disagree requires an independent assessment even if they have a starting point for that assessment.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
What you say is true only if the coin has been re-slabbed with a new serial number otherwise CAC has a data base of coins that they've seen and they check to be sure that it hasn't already been examined.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I like your CAC discussion; thanks.
I feel the same way (gag) about threads that talk about toned coins.
They seem to be usually very busy with one week or so turn arounds. They have already "seen" so many coins that they keep seeing, too bad there is no way to save on postage and submission costs. And would like to see a box you could check for offers and problems JA sees.
Amen, sis'.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I know. But my point is that while CAC's job is marginally easier than PCGS, it isn't much easier. Graders at PCGS spend how many seconds per coin?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Thank you for the CAC gag order!
CAC is not only a market maker, but also the source of never ending controversy....since it launched about ten years ago, there have been condemnations, laudatory praise, inquisitory discussions and commentary regarding the process, the people and the founder. It seems to be a focus for the forum and certainly an important part of the coin business. Cheers, RickO
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
Coins on Television
No comment. (I've learned better!)
And if it doesn't have a bean, it goes right to shipping.
Graders have become dependent on CAC for re-con.
Basically...Don't submit for re-con unless it has a bean, your chances are about squat.
To a lesser extent, straight crossovers are the same.
My Saint Set
Database or not, it is a proven fact that the grades assigned to coins CHANGE! Sometimes it happens in a short time and sometimes it happens over decades. Therefore, each coin is evaluated when it is seen based on several things including the prevailing COMMERCIAL GRADING STANDARDS. If a coin's serial number indicated it was rejected in five years ago, it only matters a little. If it rates the bean NOW, it should get one.
I've got 3 Cameo Proof Franklins that were graded in 1987 in my teaching set. They look IDENTICAL. They have three different grades and one is not graded as a Cameo. They are in my set to help demonstrate gradeflation!
Today, each of those proofs would easily go up TWO or THREE GRADES if cracked out and sent to the same TPGS service raw. Definite "Gold" bean coins. With the label covered, it is important for the student to get the correct "Modern Grade."
To me this is a VERY BIG problem with the grading of coins. But who cares what I think!
Hey...Cool!!
Another CAC thread!!
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
It's not about grading coins, it's about COMMERCIAL or MARKET GRADING of coins. As long as market price adjust with market grades, it really makes little difference other than forcing you to resubmit every decade.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Let's see how long this one lasts.
Paging Bill Jones. Bill Jones to the CAC thread...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Insider2 said: "Database or not, it is a proven fact that the grades assigned to coins CHANGE! Sometimes it happens in a short time and sometimes it happens over decades. Therefore, each coin is evaluated when it is seen based on several things including the prevailing COMMERCIAL GRADING STANDARDS. If a coin's serial number indicated it was rejected in five years ago, it only matters a little. If it rates the bean NOW, it should get one.
I've got 3 Cameo Proof Franklins that were graded in 1987 in my teaching set. They look IDENTICAL. They have three different grades and one is not graded as a Cameo. They are in my set to help demonstrate gradeflation!
Today, each of those proofs would easily go up TWO or THREE GRADES if cracked out and sent to the same TPGS service raw. Definite "Gold" bean coins..."
@DIMEMAN said: "To me this is a VERY BIG problem with the grading of coins. But who cares what I think!"
A little history lesson. At one time collectors and dealers graded & authenticated their own coins. It is jokingly referred to as the Wild West. I'm from the Attila-the-Hun School of Real Life: Wolves eat sheep! However, I don't like the carnage.
in late 1968 or the early 1970's, others did not like the carnage! So our National organization got the idea that it would be nice if folks could have the coins they purchased authenticated by a third-party and this service was provided. Authentication only. The little secret was the service kept a record of the coins they authenticated. This was done for several reasons I don't have time to get into. You will be pleased to know that MY brilliant idea to put a microscopic scratch on the edge of each coin in a specific spot for each coin type was soundly rejected by the Director! What the...? LOL.
As one way to ID the coins, each was graded, The grades were kept on fie with the weights and photographs of both sides. The grades we assigned were proprietary. This is where the "Technical Grading System" was born. It was different than what went on in the coin market because IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH VALUE OR EYE-APPEAL! I take 98% of the credit for devising the system and I was the principal person to assign the grades. My system was based on the adjectival description found in "Penny Whimsy." In order to work, the system needed to be strict and the coins were graded using a stereo microscope. The entire grade was based on the condition of preservation of the coin from its as struck condition. A flatly struck (AS MADE) MS coin was graded exactly the same as a fully struck coin if it was in original condition with the same number of contact marks. The difference was one was recorded as "Choice Unc" (MS-65 at that time) and the other was graded "Choice Unc," Flat Strike. These grades were recorded in the internal records of the service.
The beauty of this system was it was very precise. All the attributes of a coin were kept separate from the condition of it's surface and remaining design details. It is sort of like what is being done with Ancients. The grading was in accordance with the standard of the time. MS = NO TRACE OF FRICTION WEAR. Technical grading was "archival." In theory and from what we observed in practice, a coin was graded (for our internal records of identification) exactly the same when seen two weeks later or two years later. It did not matter if the coin's retail price went up or down. Its assigned grade DID NOT CHANGE as long as the coin remained in the same condition. Joe Blow's coin was treated exactly the same as King Collector and we knew who owned the coins.
When the Certification Service was moved to CO, and the **SECOND third-party grading service came on line with a grading guidebook, they used a bastardized, "so-called" technical system that had little in common with "true" technical grading. Although they could grade coins, they had no clue as to how my original system worked. On top of that, the parent organization (IMO) screwed up the grading system for circulated coins by combining the marks on a coin with the amount of wear (typical & choice).
In the meantime, commercial dealers were at work to commercialize coin grading as no one was satisfied with the way things were being done by folks who had absolutely no connection to the coin market or what coins they authenticated and graded were worth. The fact that strike and eye appeal were very important was not being considered by the guys in the "Ivory Tower." Most of us have lived the rest of the story...
BTW, "true" technical grading was continued at INSAB in D.C. until about 1988. That company went out of business so today ANACS can truly claim to be "the OLDEST TPGS." They must be doing something right.
I see that this thread has diverted from its intent to reduce the constant and repeated debate re CAC of late while also attempting to reduce the gag reflex among many readers!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
G- got
A- all
G- green (stickers)
ON my first submission to
CAC
Two did not sticker out of many, gah!
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
Too bad this system of grading is still not the norm...…..as I will not be resubmitted every decade. Maybe by the time my collection hits the market...….they will all Gold CAC !
@Paradisefound calling Mango for relief!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
🍿🤤
.....just don't eat me @Catbert
Me Mango...