19-S Lincoln - new acquisition that would be impossible now

deefree49 · February 6, 2019 6:26AM

About a month ago, I was doing my usual seek and find mission on CoinFacts. This is not the current CoinFacts because if it was, this NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED.

Long Story Short; I found this pretty coin in the "old" CoinFacts image gallery. I looked up the cert number and found that it was in a current registry set. Luckily, the owner had email enabled so I contacted him. One day goes by and suddenly CoinFacts is completely different! No more image gallery and no more cert numbers. Had I waited a day longer to search, I wouldn't have ever seen this coin at all. It turns out the owner had only a partial set so his ranking was #88 in the Wheatbacks. I NEVER would have searched that long and hard through all those sets looking for a coin I liked...a coin that might not even exist.

So a couple of days go by and I get a return email! It turns out the owner, whose sets are under Srotag, would sell me the coin if he could find a suitable replacement. It turns out he prefers RD and RB coins while I like toned ones. So fast forward...after the FUN show, no dice. The only coin he liked went for 5 figures! Not going to happen. Then there was the recent Heritage auction and he found a nice 19-S 65RB. Well after a harrowing 3 week wait he won the auction! There were 2 other cut bidders so it was very dicey. He sent me an email saying "We Won!" Nice that he said "We".

So here are my conclusions.
1) I love the old CoinFacts. Please bring it back! It allows neat stories to happen, like this one.
2) Srotag was awesome to me. He was very accommodating and helpful in allowing me to buy this coin from him.
3) If I waited one more day and I wouldn't have this coin or even know of its existence. CoinFacts would be as it is now with only a couple of images, no cert numbers and zero chance of this type of thing even happening. I got in on the LAST DAY.
4) Thank you Srotag!! He likes Barbers and collects with his kids. How nice is that?

deefree49 · February 6, 2019 6:32AM

Here is the trueview - one is a png the other jpg and the colors are a bit different, so I put them both up.

o

1630Boston · February 6, 2019 6:57AM

Congrats

WildIdea · February 6, 2019 7:35AM

First off, I really like your new piece.

In the past, I too have looked at others registry sets and saw coins I felt would be perfect for me. I even had the idea of reaching out to them and asking if it could be bought, but I never got up the nerve. I always figured the registry more of a trophy room than a trading room and from my experience, trying to buy something not listed for sale puts one at a negotiating disadvantage. Never hurts to ask though and it sounds like you made a new contact, which is pretty cool.

I’m not sure about Coinfacts though, I never used it as hunting grounds, but it would seem to me it has less facts now.

Your sentiment of catching one final piece reminds me of the feeling I’ve gotten when Teletrade closed, my favorite B&M guy sold out and retired/closed and had the “big sale” he called it, or any supplier or collector dried up or ran out of something I’m into. It can be sad, but it’s nice when viewing a piece in the collection to be reminded of how cool it was while it lasted.

You sound resourceful, you’ll find a new way. Thanks for posting.

asheland · February 6, 2019 8:09AM

Nice coin and cool story!

Zoins · February 6, 2019 8:11AM

@deefree49 said:

Congrats on both of you getting the coin you wanted!

Love the half TrueView too!

ECHOES · February 6, 2019 8:23AM

That is a Beautiful Lincoln, first and foremost my favorite series to collect...

OldEastside · February 6, 2019 8:26AM

@asheland said:
Nice coin and cool story!

Super Cool Story

Steve

robec · February 6, 2019 10:15AM

Gorgeous 1919-S. I love the look and great strike. I could look and probably will, but what is the grade?

Yes, it's a shame the dealers now control the CoinFacts App. They took away a great tool for the collectors. Another way to dumb us up.

deefree49 · February 6, 2019 10:28AM

Hi Robec!
Grade is 65BN which IMHO seems about right.

deefree49 · February 6, 2019 11:07AM

Zoins - I'm glad you mentioned the image - that larger blowup> @WildIdea said:

First off, I really like your new piece.

In the past, I too have looked at others registry sets and saw coins I felt would be perfect for me. I even had the idea of reaching out to them and asking if it could be bought, but I never got up the nerve. I always figured the registry more of a trophy room than a trading room and from my experience, trying to buy something not listed for sale puts one at a negotiating disadvantage. Never hurts to ask though and it sounds like you made a new contact, which is pretty cool.

I’m not sure about Coinfacts though, I never used it as hunting grounds, but it would seem to me it has less facts now.

Your sentiment of catching one final piece reminds me of the feeling I’ve gotten when Teletrade closed, my favorite B&M guy sold out and retired/closed and had the “big sale” he called it, or any supplier or collector dried up or ran out of something I’m into. It can be sad, but it’s nice when viewing a piece in the collection to be reminded of how cool it was while it lasted.

You sound resourceful, you’ll find a new way. Thanks for posting.

Thank you for the kind words and encouragement! Actually contacting people through the old CoinFacts or even through their registries is something I've done only very rarely. I guess my words were a bit misleading in the O.P. where I said "...I was doing my usual seek and find on CoinFacts." More accurate would be if I said something like; "I was just perusing through CoinFacts, Collectors.com and everywhere else." What happened more specifically, while "window shopping" I chanced upon a 19-S that caught my eye in a very significant way. My adrenaline started flowing and the hunter-gatherer in my brain just kicked in. Everything else that followed was really a very long shot and unusual behavior for me.

The only other time I actually contacted anyone over a coin was back when I was obsessed with trying to find a VDB proof. THAT was CRAZY! Crazy hard too. Most of the time there aren't any for sale anywhere. So I went through the Matte Proof Registry and wrote to maybe 3 people? Could have been 4 but no more than that. I narrowed it down to anyone who had a 64 grade or lower. That was all I could even remotely consider as in my "budget". (and then, not really )

So in reality, I'm more like you as far as having the nerve to contact someone out of the blue. And, if they don't have email enabled on their registry site, game over. I won't take any more steps in that case.

So perhaps my story would be better if I had focused on how that coin caught my eye. After that, I was rather transformed into a different state of mind. in my initial email, I was apologetic about it, saying I hoped it wasn't an intrusion...In other words, that wasn't easy for me at all. Nevertheless, you see something that gets your engine going and perhaps that is when the unusual stories are born.

P.S. Teletrade! The first slabbed coins I ever owned was from their auctions. A fun memory. Do you remember hoping the phone would ring and that you wouldn't get a busy signal? Ah the old days!

deefree49 · February 6, 2019 11:12AM

Zoins - the image you liked was probably Phil Arnold's work at PCGS - but the blowup is courtesy of Winged Liberty 1957. He is quite the whiz with visual arts on the computer and he has an awesome set of toned Lincolns

toyz4geo · February 6, 2019 11:18AM

To me, one of my greatest obstacles is just asking. I'm getting better at it. "You never know until you ask!". Congrats on a nice looking coin.

ilikemonsters · February 6, 2019 12:31PM

Firstly, I’d like to say that I find it proper that this thread has been started nearly one month after the better CoinFacts interface was taken away from us, collectors.

Secondly, I’d like to comment that I love the look of your 1919-S Lincoln and that the strike is very strong for an S-Ming Lincoln from the teens. Very deserving for the grade.

One thing I liked about the old CoinFacts was that you could look thru the image gallery and locate owners of coins you were very interested in adding to your collection. Another great way to meet collectors and make friends. By doing this, I added these two esoteric rarities. Mint State Roosevelt Dimes are difficult to locate in PCGS Rattler Holders, let alone in MS67. According to PCGS’s Population Report from September 1987, MS66 was the highest grade for several dates in the series.
I was very happy to add these to my personal collection, and in the process I made a new friend.

deefree49 · February 6, 2019 12:53PM

Ilikemonsters said "One thing I liked about the old CoinFacts was that you could look thru the image gallery and locate owners of coins you were very interested in adding to your collection. Another great way to meet collectors and make friends. By doing this, I added these two esoteric rarities. Mint State Roosevelt Dimes are difficult to locate in PCGS Rattler Holders, let alone in MS67. According to PCGS’s Population Report from September 1987, MS66 was the highest grade for several dates in the series.
I was very happy to add these to my personal collection, and in the process I made a new friend."

I couldn't agree more! Finding the coin was the "topic" of my O.P. but "Finding a new coin friend" is the heart of it. The connection I made with the seller was quickly becoming a friendship and I say with all sincerity, that means more than the coin does now.

Nice MS67 coins in those cool old holders!

DIMEMAN · February 6, 2019 3:52PM

If I collected copper that is the look I like. That is a beautiful Lincoln!

ricko · February 6, 2019 5:40PM

Congratulations on acquiring such a nice coin... and what a story... It is great when a super story goes with a coin acquisition...Cheers, RickO

WildIdea · February 6, 2019 9:07PM

@deefree49 said:
Zoins - I'm glad you mentioned the image - that larger blowup> @WildIdea said:

First off, I really like your new piece.

In the past, I too have looked at others registry sets and saw coins I felt would be perfect for me. I even had the idea of reaching out to them and asking if it could be bought, but I never got up the nerve. I always figured the registry more of a trophy room than a trading room and from my experience, trying to buy something not listed for sale puts one at a negotiating disadvantage. Never hurts to ask though and it sounds like you made a new contact, which is pretty cool.

I’m not sure about Coinfacts though, I never used it as hunting grounds, but it would seem to me it has less facts now.

Your sentiment of catching one final piece reminds me of the feeling I’ve gotten when Teletrade closed, my favorite B&M guy sold out and retired/closed and had the “big sale” he called it, or any supplier or collector dried up or ran out of something I’m into. It can be sad, but it’s nice when viewing a piece in the collection to be reminded of how cool it was while it lasted.

You sound resourceful, you’ll find a new way. Thanks for posting.

Thank you for the kind words and encouragement! Actually contacting people through the old CoinFacts or even through their registries is something I've done only very rarely. I guess my words were a bit misleading in the O.P. where I said "...I was doing my usual seek and find on CoinFacts." More accurate would be if I said something like; "I was just perusing through CoinFacts, Collectors.com and everywhere else." What happened more specifically, while "window shopping" I chanced upon a 19-S that caught my eye in a very significant way. My adrenaline started flowing and the hunter-gatherer in my brain just kicked in. Everything else that followed was really a very long shot and unusual behavior for me.

The only other time I actually contacted anyone over a coin was back when I was obsessed with trying to find a VDB proof. THAT was CRAZY! Crazy hard too. Most of the time there aren't any for sale anywhere. So I went through the Matte Proof Registry and wrote to maybe 3 people? Could have been 4 but no more than that. I narrowed it down to anyone who had a 64 grade or lower. That was all I could even remotely consider as in my "budget". (and then, not really )

So in reality, I'm more like you as far as having the nerve to contact someone out of the blue. And, if they don't have email enabled on their registry site, game over. I won't take any more steps in that case.

So perhaps my story would be better if I had focused on how that coin caught my eye. After that, I was rather transformed into a different state of mind. in my initial email, I was apologetic about it, saying I hoped it wasn't an intrusion...In other words, that wasn't easy for me at all. Nevertheless, you see something that gets your engine going and perhaps that is when the unusual stories are born.

P.S. Teletrade! The first slabbed coins I ever owned was from their auctions. A fun memory. Do you remember hoping the phone would ring and that you wouldn't get a busy signal? Ah the old days!

I think this is all great stuff. I can get behind anyone willing to sniff around, think creatively and do the legwork needed to accomplish a goal. That or it’s a long boring wait by the phone.

Building a group Lincolns like your newp takes focused effort. Many of them are already in collections and it’s easy to miss them when they come up for public sale. Good luck out there, I hope you keep finding them.

TomB · February 6, 2019 9:32PM

I agree with you that the old CoinFacts was among the best things available on the net, but unfortunately it is never coming back as the money has spoken.

BG · February 7, 2019 5:55AM

That's a beauty!

johnny9434 · February 7, 2019 8:21AM

congrats on the nice score

bronco2078 · February 7, 2019 9:38AM

Whose stupid idea was it to ruin coinfacts?

robec · February 7, 2019 10:10AM

@bronco2078 said:
Whose stupid idea was it to ruin coinfacts?

Dealers

bronco2078 · February 7, 2019 10:36AM

@robec said:

@bronco2078 said:
Whose stupid idea was it to ruin coinfacts?

Dealers

I must have missed the threads where these dealers were outed so we could boycott them

Zoins · February 7, 2019 10:43AM

@bronco2078 said:

@robec said:

@bronco2078 said:
Whose stupid idea was it to ruin coinfacts?

Dealers

I must have missed the threads where these dealers were outed so we could boycott them

They weren’t outed by others. One dealer outed themselves because they were proud to do it in the interests of removing duplicate coin entries. She’s come back to say it’s a good thing and will likely say it here too if alerted.

Zoins · February 7, 2019 10:46AM

@TomB said:
I agree with you that the old CoinFacts was among the best things available on the net

Agree. Without the photos, a resource to celebrate the individuality of coins is lost.

bronco2078 · February 7, 2019 10:47AM

@Zoins said:

@bronco2078 said:

@robec said:

@bronco2078 said:
Whose stupid idea was it to ruin coinfacts?

Dealers

I must have missed the threads where these dealers were outed so we could boycott them

They weren’t outed by others. One dealer outed themselves because they were proud to do it in the interests of removing duplicate coin entries.

Outed themselves? Oh that sounds fun link me i'm having trouble finding this with search

robec · February 7, 2019 11:33AM

@bronco2078 said:

@Zoins said:

@bronco2078 said:

@robec said:

@bronco2078 said:
Whose stupid idea was it to ruin coinfacts?

Dealers

I must have missed the threads where these dealers were outed so we could boycott them

They weren’t outed by others. One dealer outed themselves because they were proud to do it in the interests of removing duplicate coin entries.

Outed themselves? Oh that sounds fun link me i'm having trouble finding this with search

The thread was poofed.

Here is one of the quotes from the outed dealer.

**_What no one sees here-coinfacts almost KILLED the coin biz. ABSOLUTELY.

Try getting new people involved telling them grading is consistent when they study up and see coins going from 63. 63+, 64, 65! or someone wanting to buy a coin-you can't imagine how many lost sales have happened because collectors would research a coin and see it was upgaded. Guess what-it happened and it happened MANY TIMES. You people live in a world of not knowing.

Had stuff like that never happened, coins might be worth more today. That affects every one. Bravo for PCGS to finally work on it.
_**

Ronyahski · February 7, 2019 12:04PM

Great coin! Tougher toner date.

BRING BACK COINFACTS !

MonsterCoinz · February 7, 2019 12:30PM

@robec said:
Here is one of the quotes from the outed dealer.

**_What no one sees here-coinfacts almost KILLED the coin biz. ABSOLUTELY.

Try getting new people involved telling them grading is consistent when they study up and see coins going from 63. 63+, 64, 65! or someone wanting to buy a coin-you can't imagine how many lost sales have happened because collectors would research a coin and see it was upgaded. Guess what-it happened and it happened MANY TIMES. You people live in a world of not knowing.

Had stuff like that never happened, coins might be worth more today. That affects every one. Bravo for PCGS to finally work on it.
_**

I feel dumber having read that. He literally justified keeping collectors in the dark because it's better for business. And criticized collectors for researching the coin. It's sad our new ownership kowtow to this anti-collector, pro-dealer model.

Great 19-S deefree!

robec · February 7, 2019 12:50PM

@mach1ne said:

I feel dumber having read that. He literally justified keeping collectors in the dark because it's better for business. And criticized collectors for researching the coin. It's sad our new ownership kowtow to their every whim.

It was a she, not he.

bronco2078 · February 7, 2019 1:30PM

everyone likes sausage , no one wants to see how its made

JimW · February 7, 2019 4:54PM

@toyz4geo said:
To me, one of my greatest obstacles is just asking. I'm getting better at it. "You never know until you ask!". Congrats on a nice looking coin.

Or as my old boss used to say...'you don't ask, you don't get!'

Soldi · February 7, 2019 4:59PM

@Zoins said:

@deefree49 said:

Congrats on both of you getting the coin you wanted!

Love the half TrueView too!

That coin, that coin! That's beautiful my man!

AuroraBorealis · February 7, 2019 5:59PM

@TomB said:
I agree with you that the old CoinFacts was among the best things available on the net, but unfortunately it is never coming back as the money has spoken.

Hi Tom I hope you have been keeping well!... That`s not what I heard from customer service a week ago... I was told that they will be bring the pics back but PCGS is currently figuring things out... AB

Zoins · February 7, 2019 6:44PM

@AuroraBorealis said:

@TomB said:
I agree with you that the old CoinFacts was among the best things available on the net, but unfortunately it is never coming back as the money has spoken.

Hi Tom I hope you have been keeping well!... That`s not what I heard from customer service a week ago... I was told that they will be bring the pics back but PCGS is currently figuring things out... AB

I do hope they bring the photos back. It was one of their biggest differentiators and I hope they realize it.

Namvet69 · February 7, 2019 7:02PM

That beautiful chocolate brown cent made me bake up a batch of brownies! Thanks. Peace Roy

bronco2078 · February 7, 2019 7:25PM

@Namvet69 said:
That beautiful chocolate brown cent made me bake up a batch of brownies! Thanks. Peace Roy

Colorado style?

TomB · February 7, 2019 8:20PM

@AuroraBorealis said:

@TomB said:
I agree with you that the old CoinFacts was among the best things available on the net, but unfortunately it is never coming back as the money has spoken.

Hi Tom I hope you have been keeping well!... That`s not what I heard from customer service a week ago... I was told that they will be bring the pics back but PCGS is currently figuring things out... AB

I hope you are well, too! I also hope you are right, but until it's back...it's gone.

deefree49 · February 7, 2019 9:37PM

First - Thanks to everyone being so nice and complimentary about my new coin! It definitely makes this old collector feel good.

Second - With regard to the dealer who didn't like people finding out through CoinFacts that a coin was graded lower before. To that, I say this: It doesn't matter if it was graded lower before IF that old grade was too low. If a coin gets a higher grade and that higher grade is proper, than that's all that is important and it is all good.

So what if someone was smart and saw that a coin could upgrade. More power to them. If you LIKE the coin and the new grade is proper, that is all that matters! Buy the coin and don't worry about its history. Remember, ALL coins were once raw! So the initial act of getting a grade raises a coin's value. The act of getting an upgrade, if proper, also raises a coin's value. It is all part of the same continuum. All the collector needs to worry about is liking the coin and being sure it is properly graded.

The real answer to dealing with this is to brush up on grading skills and go into the market place armed with knowledge. If you do that, you'll come out fine.

bronco2078 · February 8, 2019 10:22AM

@deefree49 said:

Second - With regard to the dealer who didn't like people finding out through CoinFacts that a coin was graded lower before. To that, I say this: It doesn't matter if it was graded lower before IF that old grade was too low. If a coin gets a higher grade and that higher grade is proper, than that's all that is important and it is all good.

What matters a lot is that the marks don't figure out that they don't need dealers anymore bury the evidence and keep the con running is the goal

deefree49 · February 8, 2019 11:42AM

In my own experience, discovering a coin was previously upgraded came from auction archives, not CoinFacts.

The first couple of times I found out about a previous upgrade on a coin buy, it did leave me with the feeling of being used, or a "mark" as bronco2078 said. I got over that pretty fast and thankfully so because otherwise, all that negativity would make it harder for me to buy coins. Eventually doing that research on a coin's history became an interesting adventure in detective work, kind of fun actually. Of course it is better to do that before you buy!

From my own experience and I'm not trying to project to anyone else - but - I honestly can't recall finding a previous lower grade on CoinFacts for a coin I've bought. It was always research of old auctions.

Now as far as the old version of CoinFacts hurting sales by revealing "secrets", while that probably happens sometimes, I think the business it stimulated would eventually come around and help dealers. Why? Well whenever someone did find a coin, like I did and they were able to find the owner and buy it...well then that seller is going to probably be looking either for a replacement or some other coin they've been thinking about. Game Theory! Any sale like that can start a chain reaction.

In my opinion, the old CoinFacts likely added to commerce in the final analysis. The few people who might get turned away from seeing their coin graded lower in the past? I would hope they would be outnumbered by the positive activity that resulted from the old CoinFacts. Collectors see those nice pictures and can use that to make comparisons which gives them confidence to make informed buys. They can follow cert numbers (as I did) and see if an owner wants to sell. Or maybe they simply make a new connection with another collector, strengthening the coin community with more contacts.

I think it is short sighted to think the old CoinFacts harmed dealers.

Also, how about this? Turn in your old labels and get rid of the old evidence! PCGS could remove the old cert # in a few seconds. When an upgrade is determined by PCGS, look at the old number, go in to the system and delete!

All these negative ideas about the old CoinFacts are unfounded or easily fixed IMHO.

deefree49 · February 25, 2019 10:59AM

I'm happy to report this would now have been "possible" again because of the very good compromise that was reached with CoinFacts, collectors and (I assume) dealers.

Yay! Now the image gallery is back and if only for enjoyable coin gawking, this is a happy development.

coinbuf · February 25, 2019 11:08AM

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19-S Lincoln - new acquisition that would be impossible now

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