What are the differences between “Professional Numismatists” and “Amateur Numismatists?”
RogerB
Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
In many occupations there are people with specialized training who derive their livelihoods from their work. These are often called “professional wwwwwww.” There are also people with a keen interest in a subject but limited training and who do not receive income for what they do. These are often called “amateur wwwwww.”
In some fields, such as astronomy, the professionals occasionally collaborate with amateurs to improve or expand data collection and research. In others, such as medicine, amateurs are rejected out of hand.
How do members see this kind of relationship in numismatics?
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Comments
Ego?😈 Really to me experience of what's market acceptable in your era. Did I hear old school collectors thought varnish was accepted in the past. Moving to the era of coin cabinets and albums where some would say friction rub vs wear, you mean there's a difference.
You researching know better than I, I'm jack of all trades an expert of none (ADHD)😺 My many hobbies teach me of history, screw boring books though I have many for reference and use boards like this to keep me up to speed.
Anyway good question, it will be interesting the responses 🤐
The color and age of their mustard stains.
I think the difference is simplicity itself....Income. If you make money doing it, you are professional. If you don't, you are amateur.
Being "professional" implies no expertise, really. There are professionals who don't know much, and amateurs who are experts!
The real question should be: What qualifies one to be a Numismatist?! I spend a lot of time with coins, coin books, and related items, but I don't think I've earned the title. I'm just a collector....
A professional makes money in his or her field.
In the seventh and eighteen centuries in England, the term "amateur" was treated with more dignity. The amateur was a lover, admirer, or devotee of some subject. Today we might say "a very big fan" of something.
I am with @TommyType I went to my first coin show in late 1967 or early 1968 and old coins have been the big, non-stop object of my life ever since - but I am still an amateur. If there was a written test to get your numismatist's license, I hope I could pass!
Or some Professionals lose enough money to go to work for somebody else I think.
...about five bank accounts, three ounces and two vehicles?
Professionals cost amateurs more than retail, in the market. In the hobby they're both geeks.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
If you would sell your very favorite coin, you are likely a pro. It is just a business for you. But I am a collector so what do I know? At some point I may sell my favorite coin, but that will not make me a pro unless I start making a business of it, and that ship sailed long ago.
And an amateur doesn't feel the need to.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Don't forget museum curators and archeological numismatists....
Richard Doty was a great numismatist and Robert Hoge is a great numismatist. Robert Hoge talked about getting started out much like any kid coin collector. IIRC, Mr. Hoge had the great Dan Brown as a mentor. Professional Museum people with deep numismatic backgrounds.
all this talk of "Amateur and Professional" seems to be ego driven. there are probably "Amateur" Numismatists who dwarf their "Professional" counterparts right here at the forum. oh yeah, I don't think money has anything to do with it.
The origin of the word "amateur" is from Latin "amare", which means "to love." The pejorative "amateurish" has damaged the meaning of "amateur."
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I profess being an amateur.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I like definition #1 best in the context of coins.
@keets said: "all this talk of "Amateur and Professional" seems to be ego driven. there are probably "Amateur" Numismatists who dwarf their "Professional" counterparts right here at the forum. oh yeah, I don't think money has anything to do with it.
Then they are not "amateurs."
PS what folks THINK is less important that WHAT IS. Money is the accepted difference until more "wordflation" takes place.
A professional numismatist is one who tries to earn a living selling coins. An amateur numismatic is a collector who buys overgrazed crapolla off of the TV coins Shows.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Someone who knows the correct spelling of a 5 cent coin nickle or nickel
HAPPY COLLECTING
I think there's more to it. Like, is it your primary income stream, or a major component of your livelihood? For many it's a profitable hobby or a side hustle, but it's not the "day job."
Getting closer ... though in just about any profession we know that some are more professional than others. Main source of livelihood, coupled with a significant body of domain-specific knowledge and expertise?
My eyes have been opened to see how well professional numismatists interact and collaborate with amateurs (collectors).
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
As Bill Dugan pointed out, some people earn a living in coins without buying and selling them. In my ten years working for Coin World and for ANACS I was a Professional Numismatist.
That said, it seems unfair to call Eliasberg an "amateur."
Profit or income motivation.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
They live in Israel.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Interesting responses so far -- no quite what was expected, either.
According to the dictionary a professional is someone who is following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain. The original question, rather than looking for a classic definition, is more attuned to an individuals expertise. Therefore, the classic answers are not really appropriate. If one discusses the level of knowledge an individual possesses, regarding a specific subject (in this case numismatics), then the line is drawn between 'skilled' and 'inexperienced'. Either could pursue a livelihood in numismatics... and certainly there are examples of both. There are also many examples of both who are not pursuing the business side of numismatics. Cheers, RickO
a "Professional" is someone like Insider2 who thinks he's smarter than everyone else.
an "Amateur" is someone like me who knows that he's not.
@keets said: "a "Professional" is someone like Insider2 who thinks he's smarter than everyone else. An "Amateur" is someone like me who knows that he's not."
Aside from the vitriol in your comment you have unknowingly stumbled into an often seen attribute of many professional numismatists and many ignorant "wanna-be-professional" coin shop clerks. Most of them I encounter are unaware of this character defect.
Note, I don't consider you to be one of the latter as you have posted your bona fides.
Good discussion which once again illustrates that phenomena and categorization often occur along a range or continuum, rather than a strict either/or condition. Very few interesting descriptions of anything is absolutely binary these days..
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
In an attempt to live up to a falsely applied
characterization of myself, I'll write this answer to the OP's question:
In this age of specialization, most of us are amateurs in some categories of numismatics while seeking to be professionals in others.
I am a pro... NOT
Is there a set of analogies between things like Astronomy, where "professional" and "amateur" are fairly well defined, and numismatics where the terms seem to float about depending on user/perceptive intent?
Aside from the vitriol in your comment
see, you infer vitriol where non is present. the solution is simple, if you don't want people like me to think you're a "know it all" then the solution is to stop acting that way.
well said, and I agree. I know nothing about a lot of things .....
Professional - has online store and or b&m shop, sales tax permit, sets up at shows; in the business. May be auctioneer like at major auction house, grader, officer of TPG.
I can't define 'Amateur Numismatist' but I know one when I see one, like while I'm shaving.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
@keets said:
Aside from the vitriol in your comment see, you infer vitriol where non is present. the solution is simple, if you don't want people like me to think you're a "know it all" then the solution is to stop acting that way.
Hummm, very interesting. When I quoted what you posted above to respond, apparently -some DELETED (?) stuff you originally wrote popped up too. Must be a glitch in the CU system.
Actually, I was trying to hide the truth about my real feelings about myself (a true numismatic genius in every possible sense); but you were very astute to figure this out. The fact that you have exposed me as a complete fraud is very embarrassing.
Eventually, it had to happen. You see, when I was a babe in nursery school, I felt - unjustly I might add - that the adult teacher was a "know-it-all!" As a matter of fact, due to a severe character deficiency, I still imagine everyone more knowledgeable than I is a "know-it-all." I hope I've made this very clear.
PS I love you man
so PLEASE stop the personal CRAP as it does not belong on CU. You can have the last Off-Topic "prick." 
What are the differences between ....
Beginner Numismatist
Advanced Numismatist
Specialist Numismatist
Insider Numismatist
Expert Numismatist
Old School Numismatist
Hack Numismatist
ErrorsOnCoins --
Nice list but you forgot one: "can spell 'numismatist.' "
The distinction, as has been mentioned, is straightforward. A professional is someone whose livelihood revolves around numismatics (dealer, grader, curator, cataloger, researcher, etc).
Using golf for comparison, a professional golfer is someone who competes in tournaments for money, or teaches professionally at a club. An amateur golfer may be nearly or as good as a professional, but they derive no income from playing or teaching. Similarly, the most advanced collectors often know far more about their field than professionals, who are often generalists. Nevertheless, if you aren't employed in the field of numismatics, you aren't a professional.
The difference in golf is that professional are usually accredited by the PGA, CPA, R&A, etc. As far as I know the only comparable organization in numismatics is the PNG, and its member requirement are onerous, excluding those who would otherwise qualify as professionals.
Dealing in Canadian and American coins and historical medals.
aside to Insider2 --- i have done what i can to avoid you, but you tend to make an attempt to criticize my resplies whenever you can. this thread is a good example of that. you entered into it and ignored every other reply but mine and just had to comment on it. that has become a habit with you. it's OK, i guess, but if you don't like how i respond back to you, just ignore my posts.
I don't claim to be clever, but i actually set a trap for you with my reply by using the word "he's" the way i did. you inferred it to be referring to Insider2 when it was actually meaning me, that i consider myself an amateur because i know I'm not smarter than everyone else. maybe you get it now.
let's make a deal, let's avoid each other. if you choose to be critical of me, though, the kitchen might get hot.
have a nice day.
Cut out the back and forth you two. Definitely not professional
Dealing in Canadian and American coins and historical medals.
Agreed!
It seems to me that amateur and professional infers a difference in profit taking.
How about expert vs. amateur?
Then, you can eliminate the profit taking variable, in which instance, I would attribute the difference to knowledge, experience and success.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
LOL, just paranoid (?) amateurs bantering back and forth.
I am an expert at being a novice professional amateur.
I would think a professional numismatist is anyone who works in the industry, writers and researchers included.
Collector, occasional seller
I consider myself a professional in that I derive my living from numismatics, but I consider myself an amateur in the areas of the hobby in which I do not specialize, particularly insofar as some worldwide issues are concerned. In such cases I consult with knowledgeable professionals in those areas for input. On boards like these you will normally find a mix of pro/am, but you will also occasionally find "pros" with less actual knowledge than some amateurs, and several amateurs who think they know more than pros (but don't).
RIP Mom- 1932-2012