Fakes showing up on end rolls.........

AUandAG · January 16, 2019 9:32PM

The CC on this roll is a newly made Chinese Fake (tells discussed here before)
bob
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1895-END-CC-END-BRIGHT-WHITE-MORGAN-DOLLAR-ROLL-20-MM308/264143797909?

Paradisefound · January 16, 2019 9:38PM

Fakes to a New Low

TwoSides2aCoin · January 16, 2019 9:49PM

Another screwball on a venue that continues to get worse.

ChrisH821 · January 16, 2019 9:57PM

Reported.

Edthelorax · January 16, 2019 10:24PM

This problem and Ebay's disregard for the US laws, The Hobby protection Act in particular, is one of the primary factors that drove me to join multiple coin forums. I have heard every excuse trying to justify Ebay's inaction. The fact of the matter is that if Ebay has removed over 100 listings in a 20 month time period from a single seller, and that seller is allowed to continue creating listings, Ebay is undeniably in violation of the Hobby Protection Act. More specifically, The Collectible Coin Protection Act of 2016 which states: " It shall be a violation of the Act and the regulations promulgated thereunder for a person to provide substantial assistance or support to any manufacturer, importer, or seller of imitation numismatic items, or to any manufacturer or importer of imitation political items, if that person knows or should have known that the manufacturer, importer, or seller is engaged in any practice that violates the Act and the regulations promulgated thereunder."

AUandAG · January 16, 2019 11:13PM

They claim, unrightly so, that they have rules against fake purses, watches, clothing, shoes, coins, etc and that that is all they can do. They can only react to reports as they do not monitor listings when put up.
Cop out.

bob

Edthelorax · January 16, 2019 11:31PM

@ChrisH821 said:
Reported.

Was just that one roll reported? Did anyone check the other 15 rolls this seller has listed? I am not good enough at Morgans to be able to verify counterfeits. I assume when it is stated "reported" that is by means outside of the regular "report item" function on ebay, correct?

ChrisH821 · January 16, 2019 11:43PM

@Edthelorax said:

@ChrisH821 said:
Reported.

Was just that one roll reported? Did anyone check the other 15 rolls this seller has listed? I am not good enough at Morgans to be able to verify counterfeits. I assume when it is stated "reported" that is by means outside of the regular "report item" function on ebay, correct?

I just used "Report item" on that one roll, I didn't look at the seller's other items.

AUandAG · January 16, 2019 11:48PM

It is the only one out of the batch he has for sale. I think.

bob

OPA · January 17, 2019 4:58AM

eBay removed the item.

btw..who was the seller?

Edthelorax · January 17, 2019 8:23AM

How does one acquire 15 rolls of Morgans with a total of 17 BU Carson Cities on the ends?
I wish I knew them better but it seems odd to me that several appear to have the same die clash in the field to the right of the eagle.
https://www.ebay.com/usr/sterling*collectibles?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

AUandAG · January 17, 2019 9:23AM

@OPA said:
eBay removed the item.

btw..who was the seller?

sterling*collectibles was the seller. His rolls are up still minus the CC fake roll.

bob

DoubleEagle59 · January 17, 2019 9:27AM

@Edthelorax said:
How does one acquire 15 rolls of Morgans with a total of 17 BU Carson Cities on the ends?
I wish I knew them better but it seems odd to me that several appear to have the same die clash in the field to the right of the eagle.
https://www.ebay.com/usr/sterling*collectibles?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

I believe I know my Chinese fakes, but that CC dollar in this picture sure looks genuine to me.

AUandAG · January 17, 2019 10:56AM

@DoubleEagle59 Yes, that's a real CC dollar. Not the fake and the rest of his made up rolls all have real CC dollars. I'm quite certain these are not inherited coins and are just made rolls, probably last week. The odd of having these rolls with a CC on the end is a number so small it's not worth talking about. Not one roll with a CC on the end is legit in my mind. NOT ONE.

bob

ChrisH821 · January 17, 2019 12:28PM

@Edthelorax said:
How does one acquire 15 rolls of Morgans with a total of 17 BU Carson Cities on the ends?
I wish I knew them better but it seems odd to me that several appear to have the same die clash in the field to the right of the eagle.

One doesn't, one must "assemble" them. These are among the worst sellers on ebay as far as I'm concerned and I cannot understand how they are still allowed to operate.

That clash is very common on Morgans.

KeithMS70 · January 17, 2019 12:56PM

This guy has a ton of negative feedback yet eBay allows this person to keep on selling. Ebays never going to change their policy until their held liable.

COCollector · January 17, 2019 2:43PM

Seller has plenty of dollar rolls: https://www.ebay.com/str/Quintessential-Collections/Coins-Paper-Money/_i.html?_sacat=11116

Not surprisingly, it looks like their auctions are private listings -- the "bidders identities protected", so it's impossible to see shill bids.

RogerB · January 17, 2019 2:47PM

@Edthelorax said:
This problem and Ebay's disregard for the US laws, The Hobby protection Act in particular, is one of the primary factors that drove me to join multiple coin forums. I have heard every excuse trying to justify Ebay's inaction. The fact of the matter is that if Ebay has removed over 100 listings in a 20 month time period from a single seller, and that seller is allowed to continue creating listings, Ebay is undeniably in violation of the Hobby Protection Act. More specifically, The Collectible Coin Protection Act of 2016 which states: " It shall be a violation of the Act and the regulations promulgated thereunder for a person to provide substantial assistance or support to any manufacturer, importer, or seller of imitation numismatic items, or to any manufacturer or importer of imitation political items, if that person knows or should have known that the manufacturer, importer, or seller is engaged in any practice that violates the Act and the regulations promulgated thereunder."

Blane the "national collector's organization" -- ANA does nothing! Not one notice from ANA to a counterfeiter or seller of counterfeits to cease or face prosecution under HPA.
Ebay ought to be sued for being a party to the sale of all sorts of fake merchandise - including coins.

blitzdude · January 17, 2019 4:00PM

@Edthelorax said:
https://www.ebay.com/usr/sterling*collectibles?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

Looks like a legit CC to me.

TONEDDOLLARS · January 17, 2019 4:21PM

@Edthelorax said:
How does one acquire 15 rolls of Morgans with a total of 17 BU Carson Cities on the ends?
I wish I knew them better but it seems odd to me that several appear to have the same die clash in the field to the right of the eagle.
https://www.ebay.com/usr/sterling*collectibles?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

One buys up a boat load of doggy GSA dollars in holders and cracks them and then assembles rolls. Always putting the CC side out, which is usually the better side anyways. Then sells them for double the cost. JMO

AUandAG · January 17, 2019 4:28PM

@blitzdude said:

@Edthelorax said:
https://www.ebay.com/usr/sterling*collectibles?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

Looks like a legit CC to me.

This is a legit, the fake was removed by ebay.

bob

bronco2078 · January 17, 2019 5:50PM

@AUandAG said:
They claim, unrightly so, that they have rules against fake purses, watches, clothing, shoes, coins, etc and that that is all they can do. They can only react to reports as they do not monitor listings when put up.
Cop out.

bob

I used to stop at a coach purse outlet in NH and buy a bunch of bags with my girlfriend to resell on ebay. We did pretty well , with NH being a tax free state and the bags marked down more than 50% we could often double our money on a bag listing on ebay. Starting them at 99 cents and letting them fly we were very successful for about 6 months around 2007 into 2008

Ebay shut us down , we were selling real coach bags with paper work bought at a coach store and that was an issue somehow.

This happened to others as well , it was apparently coach complaining , they would just claim any bag they saw was fake and get it pulled .

giantsfan20 · January 17, 2019 6:14PM

Did they have crimped rolls back then or how were small quantities distributed to end user like today a paper roll?

AUandAG · January 17, 2019 6:49PM

There were not crimped rolls (mechanically rolled by machine) until the 1950's. So, no these could never have been done back then (date of coin).
Roll patent date for "window" rolls is 1921: http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=1379751&idkey=NONE&homeurl=http:%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fpatimg.htm

Machine to mechanically crimp the ends came much, much later. Perhaps well into the 1950s.

Rolls before 1921 would have been done by hand and sealed by hand (many using wax as a sealant. There could be cardboard "plugs" at one or both ends adding stabilization to the roll and an efficient way to fold or seal the roll. This would prevent the viewer from seeing the coins, however.

Mechanically wrapped rolls were not instituted by banks for their convenience but were a result of casino gaming and the use of wrapped rolls for the customer. Bags of coins were shipped to the casinos by the banks and then the hard count rooms of the casinos emptied the bags via wrapping the coins and having them ready for the floor as needed. (At least it was done this way in my Mother's casino in Carson City back in the early 1960's (first worked in the hard count perhaps in 1961 at age 16)).

Klopp crimpers used for crimping the ends was in use as early as 1952 or 1953. I have not been able to find a patent date for them, however.

Long story short: the rolls that are up on ebay are just BS rolls made up by some unscrupulous person. There's a sucker born everyday.

bob

Video of a roll with a CC end being opened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP87y8aOmcE

Fakes showing up on end rolls.........

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