BE CAREFUL BUYING BULLION ON EBAY

joebb21 · January 5, 2019 5:42PM

Bought a 1 oz bar of gold from ebay seller coastalcaliber on december 6th.

The seller never provided a tracking number and both ebay and paypal do not dispute this fact.

However paypal declined my "item not received" claim because they said bullion is no longer covered.

I had to call my credit card company to file a dispute.

Just be careful whom you buy such items from

hchcoin · January 5, 2019 5:44PM

What did eBay say?

Lakesammman · January 5, 2019 5:45PM

Bullion is no longer covered?? WTF.....

joebb21 · January 5, 2019 5:52PM

@hchcoin said:
What did eBay say?

Ebay said talk to paypal.

Paypal said sorry but too bad (even after It was clearly shown no messages to the seller were returned, or a tracking number was never provided)

visa said- you will see a credit post in 3 days

Coinstartled · January 5, 2019 5:56PM

Thanks for the tip and a reminder that credit card funding is the way to go with paypal.

Wonder how a gold $20 near spot would fare?

dennis1219 · January 5, 2019 6:01PM

I post tracking on a $10 item. A 1 Oz gold bar should have been shipped with insurance and signature confirmation.

logger7 · January 5, 2019 6:02PM

Definitely a "buyer beware" caveat emptor type of environment on ebay.

Like this 1851-O $20 that sold way under market recently: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1851-O-20-Liberty-Double-Eagle-NGC-AU-58-/372545571229?hash=item56bd72499d:g:dEIAAOSw91JcH-7-&nma=true&si=JKwPTTGET4ufjMsw5yZuFJ01A2I%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Little in the way of feedback, just not credible.

VanHalen · January 5, 2019 6:07PM

@joebb21 said:
Bought a 1 oz bar of gold from ebay seller coastalcaliber on december 6th.

The seller never provided a tracking number and both ebay and paypal do not dispute this fact.

However paypal declined my "item not received" claim because they said bullion is no longer covered.

I had to call my credit card company to file a dispute.

Just be careful whom you buy such items from

So ebay bullion purchases are now completely unsecured? The seller gets the money and ships if they feel like it?

Gluggo · January 5, 2019 6:08PM

@joebb21 said:

@hchcoin said:
What did eBay say?

Ebay said talk to paypal.

Paypal said sorry but too bad (even after It was clearly shown no messages to the seller were returned, or a tracking number was never provided)

visa said- you will see a credit post in 3 days

I will have to remember that lately I put it on Pay Pal Credit but if they are taking the position that bullion is basically not covered. Well I will have to make a call Monday to a PayPal Credit department for expanded legal definitions of their terms. Sorry about your hassle and thank you for sharing the sellers name. He has had 5 Negative reporting in the past 12 months. That seems a bit high. Might clarify that with Ebay providing so have the time to wait on the phone.

BillDugan1959 · January 5, 2019 6:17PM

@joebb21 @Gluggo Both of the variations you posted might apply to some of my buying and funding habits, so please keep us updated and many thanks for the information.

I took a chance on bullion from two small companies (for AGEs) recently, but it sounds like I might have to go back to the three or four very reliable big companies that I have dealt with in recent years.

Akbeez · January 5, 2019 6:19PM

That's disturbing. Does eBay have a new policy that exempts bullion from Buyer Protection? Seem like this would be handled like any other "not received" case and refund the buyer. Any item over ($300? - don't recall) requires shipping signature confirmation applied. Surely the gold oz would require protection?

Also - another reason to avoid selling legal tender coins under "bullion" category.

davewesen · January 5, 2019 7:17PM

Did you go through eBays 'item not received' process, or just start calling?

Paradisefound · January 5, 2019 7:33PM

I am glad you have it resolved @joebb21 ........ I am sorry you had to go through this very unpleasant experience

Sonnys88 · January 5, 2019 7:37PM

According to eBay, bullion is still covered under their buyer protection - https://pages.ebay.com/rcp/bullion-education-center/faqs.html

OPA · January 5, 2019 7:41PM

@Akbeez said:
That's disturbing. Does eBay have a new policy that exempts bullion from Buyer Protection? Seem like this would be handled like any other "not received" case and refund the buyer. Any item over ($300? - don't recall) requires shipping signature confirmation applied. Surely the gold oz would require protection?

Also - another reason to avoid selling legal tender coins under "bullion" category.

Signature confirmation not required on items under $750. Delivery confirmation required on all items.
Bullion does not qualify for USPO insurance unless it is mailed via registered mail. You can always list your bullion items in a non bullion category & be covered by PayPal, if that's their policy. Which, btw, I'm not aware off. You should also be covered by eBay's buyers protection and a claim must be filed through eBay & not PayPal.

steelielee · January 5, 2019 7:42PM

The times, they are a changin. I just went thru a return process that was bizarre...ebay is putting a lot of distance between them and paypal. Be careful out there folks.

YQQ · January 5, 2019 7:53PM

WHY WOULD THE MOTHER (Feebay) distance itself from (not support) its child (paypal)?
maybe tax reasons?? or??? liability??

Akbeez · January 5, 2019 7:54PM

Yes, eBay didn't blink at refunding me for a couple FAKE silver eagles from China I reported last month. Didn't even require me to return them to the sender. Thought that was a noble statement!

OPA · January 5, 2019 7:57PM

Something does not compute: I do not see where bullion is excluded from Paypal's buyers protection, unless they consider bullion a financial product:

Ineligible items and transactions under PayPal’s Purchase Protection program
Payments for the following are not eligible for reimbursement under PayPal Purchase Protection:

Real estate, including residential property.
Financial products or investments of any kind.
Businesses (when you buy or invest in a business).
Vehicles, including, but not limited to, motor vehicles, motorcycles, recreational vehicles, aircraft and boats.
Significantly Not as Described claims for wholly or partly custom-made items.
Donations including payments on crowdfunding platforms.
Items prohibited by the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy.
For Item Not Received claims, items which you collect in person or arrange to be collected on your behalf, including items bought in a seller’s store location.
Industrial machinery used in manufacturing.
Anything purchased from, or an amount paid to, a government agency.
Stored value items such as gift cards and pre-paid cards.
Gambling, gaming and/or any other activity with an entry fee and a prize.
Payments sent using PayPal’s friends and family functionality.
Payments sent using PayPal to any bill payment service.
Payments made using PayPal Payouts and Mass Pay or guest checkout transactions (i.e. not sent using your PayPal account).

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full

lkenefic · January 5, 2019 8:02PM

Wow... welcome to deregulation. I think it will just be a matter of time before credit card companies either deny the claim, or charge hefty fees for a charge back.

Buyers Beware...

derryb · January 5, 2019 8:09PM

I suspect the OP got some bum dope from the lower level person he talked to at PP.
Any time you do not agree with an answer from paypal always request to speak to a supervisor, or in the case of a gold ounce, their high value fraud department.

amwldcoin · January 5, 2019 8:35PM

They have launched their new payment processing division. I found out when I bought my quarterly shipping supplies they give store subscribers a coupon for. They do not accept paypal now. I think this is going to turn into a hassle for sellers. I'm not on board with ebay processing my payments. In the interem sellers might have to accept paypal and eBay's processing. This is eBay's next step trying to mimic amazon. If ebay gets to be like amazon it will run off all the small sellers.

@YQQ said:
WHY WOULD THE MOTHER (Feebay) distance itself from (not support) its child (paypal)?
maybe tax reasons?? or??? liability??

BlindedByEgo · January 5, 2019 9:06PM

@YQQ said:
WHY WOULD THE MOTHER (Feebay) distance itself from (not support) its child (paypal)?
maybe tax reasons?? or??? liability??

They are now entirely separate businesses.

joebb21 · January 5, 2019 9:30PM

@derryb said:
I suspect the OP got some bum dope from the lower level person he talked to at PP.
Any time you do not agree with an answer from paypal always request to speak to a supervisor, or in the case of a gold ounce, their high value fraud department.

I will say I was not impressed with the person I spoke with. However, he did keep stating over and again that bullion is not covered under the "item not received" which of course was quite a shock (hence this thread) but i was on hold for quite a while and felt confident that if paypal said no I just go to my CC.

Honestly it was pretty laughable with the logic to rule in the seller favor.
Item was not marked as"shipped" until 14 days after purchase, and then no number was provided. I opened a case after 3 weeks and with 0 EVIDENCE that something was shipped (and the seller already having some neg's from not shipping to others) they STILL ruled in his favor.

Akbeez · January 5, 2019 9:43PM

WHAT ?

Press on Brother! Keep us posted.

YQQ · January 5, 2019 9:54PM

"They are now entirely separate businesses." you must believe in Santa... now changed his visits to your house to Dec 31.(tax year end??)
yes, and my Great Grand Mother was the queen of China.
Both with HQ in Luxembourg and and or Switzerland and probably the only shareholders in Barbados and or Bahamas or Isle of Man of their respective holding Co's based in...right here: the good old USA... making NO profit but a ton of legal expenses... mostly for tax lawyers. (and a serving address US HQ ) in Nevada or whatever state.
where do your Feebay fees go? Who exchanges your EB fees into SFR's and where do you get your PP invoices from?
oh, did you ever get a PP invoice?
or vice versa?

mustangmanbob · January 5, 2019 10:16PM

@1peter1223 said:

A while ago i messaged an ebay seller ( about a listing he had on ebay that i was interested in ) with my contact info . We contacted each other through email and phone .We agreed on price and he closed ebay listing and i bought it off ebay with PayPal .

Um, isn't that defrauding ebay? Does this put you in the "I am a thief" group?

Akbeez · January 5, 2019 10:23PM

OOPS

ArizonaRareCoins · January 5, 2019 10:39PM

@1peter1223 said:

A while ago i messaged an ebay seller ( about a listing he had on ebay that i was interested in ) with my contact info . We contacted each other through email and phone .We agreed on price and he closed ebay listing and i bought it off ebay with PayPal .

It is against eBay policy to send any contact information through the eBay message system. If you do so and end the listing, eBay will now charge you the FVF's as if you actually sold the item on eBay and they may NARU your account:
https://reddit.com/r/Ebay/comments/715w9y/ebay_to_charge_final_value_fees_for_items_they/

BlindedByEgo · January 5, 2019 11:00PM

@YQQ said:
"They are now entirely separate businesses." you must believe in Santa... now changed his visits to your house to Dec 31.(tax year end??)
yes, and my Great Grand Mother was the queen of China.
Both with HQ in Luxembourg and and or Switzerland and probably the only shareholders in Barbados and or Bahamas or Isle of Man of their respective holding Co's based in...right here: the good old USA... making NO profit but a ton of legal expenses... mostly for tax lawyers. (and a serving address US HQ ) in Nevada or whatever state.
where do your Feebay fees go? Who exchanges your EB fees into SFR's and where do you get your PP invoices from?
oh, did you ever get a PP invoice?
or vice versa?

As much as I appreciate your cogent writing style and would love to have the talent and biting wit necessary to emulate it, I'll keep it simple instead. EBay and PayPal undoubtedly share information and maintain service agreements, and perhaps (at a tinfoil-hat level only really understood by the special few) there's some collusion in some sort of offshore tax haven... I guess.

But the fact is that PayPal trades separately from eBay on the market. EBay has already disclosed its plans to move to a new payment platform. Public stockholder information available for both PayPal and eBay (sorry, I'm not privy to any insider information, nor pretend to be "in the know" about backroom, tax haven Illuminati/ Bilderberg shenanigans) does not indicate ANY substantial cross-ownership of equity.

My Grandmother WAS, however, on "Queen for a Day" back in the early 50's

Gluggo · January 5, 2019 11:14PM

@1peter1223 said:

Ebay sent The seller and me a warning about doing transaction off ebay . They just gave warning but stated if it happened again they would issue a temporary suspension or prohibit the account from sending and receiving messages for a while .

Apparently The red flag or trip was the communication with contact info followed by the seller closing the item and i sending that seller a PayPal payment .

They share info between each other .

Step away from the computer! Your confession has been documented and processed with the US Marshalls. Do NOT attempt to delete any emails or records. You belong to the Department of Corrections now. 3 hots and a cot!

SurfinxHI · January 5, 2019 11:27PM

@1peter1223 said:

@mustangmanbob said:

Um, isn't that defrauding ebay? Does this put you in the "I am a thief" group?

No more a thief than SOME sellers here and other chat boards asking payment for items to be as PP FF or gift .
That is defrauding PP while lying about transaction .

I bet you are guilty of that too.

Doesn’t that just depend on how you define “friend”?

PayPal is offering two services, one has protection, the other doesnt.

Coinstartled · January 5, 2019 11:37PM

@SurfinxHI said:

@1peter1223 said:

@mustangmanbob said:

Um, isn't that defrauding ebay? Does this put you in the "I am a thief" group?

No more a thief than SOME sellers here and other chat boards asking payment for items to be as PP FF or gift .
That is defrauding PP while lying about transaction .

I bet you are guilty of that too.

Doesn’t that just depend on how you define “friend”?

Family is easier. I am 1/1024832th related to Elizabeth Warren.

cameonut2011 · January 6, 2019 1:51AM

However paypal declined my "item not received" claim because they said bullion is no longer covered.

What did eBay say?

Ebay said talk to paypal.

Paypal said sorry but too bad (even after It was clearly shown no messages to the seller were returned, or a tracking number was never provided)

visa said- you will see a credit post in 3 days

@ErrorsOnCoins I want to hear your defense of eBay on this one.

@Coinstartled

cameonut2011 · January 6, 2019 1:52AM

Thanks for the helpful PSA!

morgansforever · January 6, 2019 4:57AM

Purchase items on Ebay with PP using your CC and buy from trusted sellers. If it's to good to be true stay away and go with your gut. I buy bullion from JM Bullion using a paper check, never had issues ever, jmo.

1Mike1 · January 6, 2019 6:35AM

Buying gold from eBay doesn't sound like a good idea to begin with.

jafo50 · January 6, 2019 6:53AM

How do you buy with a credit card on PP when you have funds in your PP account?

gtstang · January 6, 2019 6:59AM

That paypal rep sounds clueless.

davewesen · January 6, 2019 7:31AM

@jafo50 said:
How do you buy with a credit card on PP when you have funds in your PP account?

When on eBay, at checkout it asks for source of funds on the left of screen (which is already on PP acct when you have funds).

amwldcoin · January 6, 2019 7:33AM

You can now select your credit card as your default payment method. In the past I was always able to use my CC but paypal balance was always the default setting. I would wake up in the morning before my 1st cup o coffee and go to pay for auctions I had won. A second after I hit confirm it would be O Sh*t I forgot to change it to my credit card. I'm so glad the finally changed it!

@jafo50 said:
How do you buy with a credit card on PP when you have funds in your PP account?

TwoSides2aCoin · January 6, 2019 10:48AM

Reads like you and me ought to be dealing with one another privately. The whole state of commiefornia is in ruins.

ChrisRx · January 6, 2019 12:06PM

So... what Ebay is saying is that fraud is a-ok

BAJJERFAN · January 6, 2019 12:36PM

I thought that there was a discussion here a few months back about eBay modifying their policy and not covering bullion. Smoeone craftier than me want to search for and find it?

eBay: quit bullyin us about bullion.

BE CAREFUL BUYING BULLION ON EBAY

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WHAT ?

OOPS

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