@savitale said:
Personally I don't think this will have much affect on the rare coin market. For example, we don't read illuminated manuscripts in Latin any more but I can assure you that market is quite strong.
I agree. All cars today are made with computers---antique cars still go for record prices. Gold coins have not been in circulation for almost a hundred years---didn't hurt their popularity to be collected. Probably more likely that it may cause a renewed interest in rare coins. Certain people in a cashless society will want something tangible--could see precious metals benefiting.
@oldabeintx said:
I find the cashless idea troublesome in a vague way. Perhaps the notion that all my transactions can be tracked by marketeers bothers me, or maybe because it's a privacy thing in general, Helps Big Brother for sure.
I am not the biggest techie by a long shot, but even I noticed an issue with a friend's smartphone. She kept getting messages asking her to rate or review every retail establishment she had visited. It was based on a location tracker rather than spending, and when I turned off some setting the barrage stopped.
If/when it is all integrated - payment, communications, location - there will be no end to the intrusions. There are a few sci-fi movies and books from past decades that will have come true.
Every time I use my card I feel I’m exposing myself to theft. The more I use it the more it’s exposing me to fraud. We use it plenty out of necessity but I try to limit its use. It seems every other month there is something on the statement I didn’t buy and needs follow up to have credited. Things like a CVS purchase in another state or one time we had a run of gas station purchases at a station that didn’t exist. Usually small amounts but because of the risk I keep some relatively low limits.
If get a sketchy feeling about a situation or it’s employees I pay with cash. Still, numbers get stolen, sold and used.
@oldabeintx said:
I find the cashless idea troublesome in a vague way. Perhaps the notion that all my transactions can be tracked by marketeers bothers me, or maybe because it's a privacy thing in general, Helps Big Brother for sure.
I am not the biggest techie by a long shot, but even I noticed an issue with a friend's smartphone. She kept getting messages asking her to rate or review every retail establishment she had visited. It was based on a location tracker rather than spending, and when I turned off some setting the barrage stopped.
If/when it is all integrated - payment, communications, location - there will be no end to the intrusions. There are a few sci-fi movies and books from past decades that will have come true.
For my business, I get reports based on info generated by an online search someone did and if the person actually came in the business after that, based on their location tracker.
It’s obvious to me that people are more free with their money when they’re swiping their card. Helps sales. If they had to peel off a bunch of Benjamins, they would naturally think harder about the purchase. Just part of the game.
The elimination of cash will IMO eliminate the casual collector. Don't see how it could play out otherwise. Might be a spurt of interest among the general public for a short time, after which the field will be left to those with a deeper interest in numismatics or collecting.
@oldabeintx said:
The elimination of cash will IMO eliminate the casual collector. Don't see how it could play out otherwise. Might be a spurt of interest among the general public for a short time, after which the field will be left to those with a deeper interest in numismatics or collecting.
Probably true. Out of sight, out of mind. Coins will become more like antiques or other collectables - you will need to have a pre-existing interest in order to want to seek them out.
I owned a small restaurant in Boca Raton,Fl (sold it 6 years ago).In the last few years of my ownership I was approached, more than once, by credit card companies offering a financial incentive if I would agree to go cashless....I always declined.The offer was substantial btw.It has been the plan/idea of these companies all along and they have been patiently working on it for many years.
Collector of numeral seals.That's the 1928 and 1928A series of FRNs with a number rather than a letter in the district seal. Owner/operator of Bottom Line Currency
By using my card instead of cash I get 2% cash back (beats 0% with cash). Never an issue with spam, etc. I have one card just for online purchases so in case it gets stolen or hacked, I can kill it and get another number without killing my day to day in person purchases. If you are concerned about credit hacks, etc, freeze your credit at the three credit bureaus.
@numbersman said:
I owned a small restaurant in Boca Raton,Fl (sold it 6 years ago).In the last few years of my ownership I was approached, more than once, by credit card companies offering a financial incentive if I would agree to go cashless....I always declined.The offer was substantial btw.It has been the plan/idea of these companies all along and they have been patiently working on it for many years.
Aren't the "other" payment forms going to take the CC companies goldmine? Apple Pay, Google Pay, Paypal….heck, even Samsung wants me to use "Samsung Pay" on my phone!...
I know the fees are now probably boiled into the price of everything now already.....But it irks me that we may have no choice but to pay some private company to use our own money.
I LIKE cash. The CC comes out only for large purchases, and even then only as a convenience.
And yet I don't see the credit card processing companies telling us they'll wave the fee's they charge us if we tell customers we only take card here at the camera store. No one goes to a pub and has a $1.35 bill. People do come into the camera store for one mount board or one sleeve for a roll of film. If they pay with a card and I don't charge the customer and extra $.45 for the card I'd lose money. I'm not losing money on the sale because you don't want to carry some paper in your pocket.
Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.
Ask the people of Puerto Rico what they thought of their banking industry, electronic payment, credit cards etc after Hurricane Maria. Without power all transactions revert back to the most basic and simplified form of payment - cash. And of course you couldn't get it out of the bank - you were then better off having it stuffed in your mattress or in a safe place.
I foresee in the near future we will have more and more electrical failures caused by unnatural human caused disasters like hacking by state sponsored actors from N. Korea, Russia and China. It has happened on a small scale already in N. America, but Russian hackers have brought down the power grids in Latvia, Ukraine over the past few years. It is not a question of whether, but when and how big.
See how you feel about electronic payment then.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
I know I spend a lot less when using cash vs, debit cards because you can actually see the money leaving your possession and you get that sinking feeling and also your somewhat limited to how much you brought. But, with plastic I can insert my chip and feel good about it...right after my silent prayer while staring at the machine praying to the Man to let there be enough in there. But, shouldn't our collections of coins increase in value once the mark on the forehand/head is the only way? Oh yea, I'm in south Texas and have never experienced that problem, yet. A bunch of happy robots cyber buying $20 coffees until Coin scratch walks in with a pocket full of pennies. Tragic
Certainly there is a growing use of credit cards... and some businesses not accepting cash. I do use CC's in some cases...but I always have around $300 in cash in my pocket... sometimes more. Certain transactions are always cash. At restaurants or bars, I always tip in cash - directly to the server. At my age, I will not see a totally cashless society.. which I doubt will exist anytime in the relatively near future (100 years for example). Meanwhile, I will carry cash and cards and spend my merry way through this fantastic life. Cheers, RickO
I use Apple Pay everywhere I can because it's so quick and convenient. Indeed, were it possible I'd use it to buy a stamp but the stupid Post Office doesn't accept Apple Pay.
I have not run into any venues in Houston which don’t take cash. Cash is king at places like Ritz Houston, Taco Bell, or Covergirls.
I carry cash and use it a lot. For McDonald’s, BK, Jack n Box I pay with cash and use change from my change purse. They must think I am cheapo when I use pennies get it my exact. The digital new world of work allows them track u do micro mgt bad things. Every time tech outfits they change something it step backwards. It’s all stuff to tighten noose....rip u. Ol Rip (nickname) in coin club who defaulted on $50k cc debt he used to buy coins / addl investment his coin biz would be lost in the cashless places. He told me “after my first bankruptcy thought never again but then w job loss at 65 due to Oil Price Crash, they won’t hire us (ageism) now my second. So stick it to them take their usury rates rot in hades. The mark of tru success b broke when u kick.”
$15 - $20 for a salad there? - I would turnaround walk out door.
@mapleman said:
"Legal tender for all debts, public and private". Can't argue with that.
Read above, has no applicability, because there is no debt. Totally meaningless statement.
IMHO you get a haircut, you are obligated to pay ( debt) for it. The currency bill in hand reads "legal tender for all debts, public or private".
I know some one who was arrested for leaving a check for a meal bill. Police said not legal tender.
Please read again. If the business posts NO CASH, you cannot make a purchase, as there is NO DEBT. Read the US Courts and Federal Reserve guidance.
You walk into store, order a meal at the cashier, but have only cash. The cashier declines it, as they do not take cash. There is NO DEBT, meal is cancelled.
Fly on an airplane? The little carts coming down the aisle are NO CASH. If you only have cash, you cannot make a purchase.
I can decline to take cash any day any time, if you do not have a debt with me. That includes not making my stuff available to you.
Since you reference the Federal Reserve note, ask them:
Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment?
Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."
This statute means that all United States money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law which says otherwise.
@mapleman said:
"Legal tender for all debts, public and private". Can't argue with that.
Read above, has no applicability, because there is no debt. Totally meaningless statement.
IMHO you get a haircut, you are obligated to pay ( debt) for it. The currency bill in hand reads "legal tender for all debts, public or private".
I know some one who was arrested for leaving a check for a meal bill. Police said not legal tender.
Please read again. If the business posts NO CASH, you cannot make a purchase, as there is NO DEBT. Read the US Courts and Federal Reserve guidance.
You walk into store, order a meal at the cashier, but have only cash. The cashier declines it, as they do not take cash. There is NO DEBT, meal is cancelled.
Fly on an airplane? The little carts coming down the aisle are NO CASH. If you only have cash, you cannot make a purchase.
I can decline to take cash any day any time, if you do not have a debt with me. That includes not making my stuff available to you.
Since you reference the Federal Reserve note, ask them:
Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment?
Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."
This statute means that all United States money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law which says otherwise.
No disagreement from me on the right to refuse cash if posted as such. It's an individual right to do so. But...
To preform or accept the service or goods without advising no cash in advance is another issue. No one is compelled and I hope never is, to patronize a no cash establishment or policy. I would have a major problem if cashless became mandatory under law.
Best
@asheland said:
They should have fun with the cashless system when the power/lines go down...
Happened to me recently. The business did accept cash, but the size of the transactions and the paucity of customers who carry cash cost them the best part of a day's sales.
I find the cashless idea troublesome in a vague way. Perhaps the notion that all my transactions can be tracked by marketeers bothers me, or maybe because it's a privacy thing in general, Helps Big Brother for sure.
On several occasions, the McDonald's I frequent had a sign on the CC machine saying "cash only"
I always carry cards and cash so it's never a problem for me. My brother in law, however, usually only carries a card with him as do many people nowadays...
I was in China this last June and July - it is very possible to do practically any transaction with Apple Pay or other apps. It can be annoying if you don't trust the apps or the government monitoring them though. So I never got to rent a bike or buy goodies out of vending machines since a lot of them don't take cash now.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
It always amused me that kids in NYC pay for a one dollar purchase with a fob or phone.
I only use cash in restaurants in NYC after my credit card was twice "read" by waiters with scanners, who then tried to make purchases. I will just restrict my business to restaurants who still accept cash.
I wonder how many business go "cash only" because they can't solve the problem of cashiers who steal cash or can't count change.
@WildIdea said:
Every time I use my card I feel I’m exposing myself to theft. The more I use it the more it’s exposing me to fraud. We use it plenty out of necessity but I try to limit its use. It seems every other month there is something on the statement I didn’t buy and needs follow up to have credited. Things like a CVS purchase in another state or one time we had a run of gas station purchases at a station that didn’t exist. Usually small amounts but because of the risk I keep some relatively low limits.
If get a sketchy feeling about a situation or it’s employees I pay with cash. Still, numbers get stolen, sold and used.
The max you would ever be held liable for is $50 if your credit card gets stolen. I'm not sure what type of credit card you use if any, however, they do have their benefits...just like cash has its own benefits. Many credit card companies now offer 2% cash back, and that is what I have linked in my paypal account for when I purchase coins/bullion off ebay. CC companies also offer price match on certain items ( if the price of an item you purchased drops within 30 days of purchase, you get the difference credited to your account). CC's also offer extended warranties free of charge on certain purchases and others offer free insurance on car rentals. If you're worried about unauthorized charges, many CC's offer real-time text notifications. I get a text sent to my phone every time my card is charged, so I would know almost immediately if it was compromised.
@coinbuf said:
A cashless society will never work, how will all the panhandlers at every street corner beg for if there is no physical money.
I get harassed by junkies and bums all the time on my way to work. My go-to line is "sorry, don't have any cash on me" regardless of whether I do or not. I'm waiting for the day one of these people to say no worries and pulls out a square mobile pay for me to swipe my card.
Like others have said, a cashless society would be awful for the individual while great for corporations and Uncle Sam. Imagine every transaction you ever make gets taxed, tracked and logged. If that does happen, I could see a BOOM in coins/bullion as they would be one of the last methods of privacy and a way to settle a private transaction.
@mapleman said:
"Legal tender for all debts, public and private". Can't argue with that.
Read above, has no applicability, because there is no debt. Totally meaningless statement.
IMHO you get a haircut, you are obligated to pay ( debt) for it. The currency bill in hand reads "legal tender for all debts, public or private".
Gov can't require anyone to accept US dollars as payment for a private debt if they aren't will to accept US dollars.
Businesses that don't accept cash should at least post their policy in plain view.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
I was in China this last June and July - it is very possible to do practically any transaction with Apple Pay or other apps. It can be annoying if you don't trust the apps or the government monitoring them though. So I never got to rent a bike or buy goodies out of vending machines since a lot of them don't take cash now.
Times change fast. I’ve been working out of China since June. Most places including Starbucks don’t take Apple Pay anymore. Too archaic. Almost all transactions are done through WeChat which is also the same App texting, social media and teleconferencing. Anyone who works or lives in China uses this App.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Times change fast. I’ve been working out of China since June. Most places including Starbucks don’t take Apple Pay anymore. Too archaic. Almost all transactions are done through WeChat which is also the same App texting, social media and teleconferencing. Anyone who works or lives in China uses this App.
m
Oh WeChat, what a pain in the a$$, I could never get it to work even on an iPhone 6. That indeed what everyone was using and I wasn't. At least my daughter could get the app to work on her phone and still uses it to keep in touch with friends there.
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
Times change fast. I’ve been working out of China since June. Most places including Starbucks don’t take Apple Pay anymore. Too archaic. Almost all transactions are done through WeChat which is also the same App texting, social media and teleconferencing. Anyone who works or lives in China uses this App.
m
Oh WeChat, what a pain in the a$$, I could never get it to work even on an iPhone 6. That indeed what everyone was using and I wasn't. At least my daughter could get the app to work on her phone and still uses it to keep in touch with friends there.
I have a 6S and it works fine but I resisted for awhile. I tried living there without WeChat. Almost impossible
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Went to China on business for a week for the first time in Nov.
Used cash for my small purchases, they still take it but many were surprised. My colleagues there all used wechat, I'll still resist.. I'll use a debit card if i must but no way am i linking my phone to an account or credit card over there.
Here's small part of the article.
In the worldview of the Framers, informed by their struggle with England and their experience with the Articles of Confederation, the direction of economic policy centered on two powers: the regulation of commerce and the regulation of the money supply. (Taxation, on the other hand, was primarily for raising revenue.) The Constitution removed from the states the power of coining money and the power over interstate commerce and lodged both with the Congress, with the proviso that Congress could not discriminate against any state or region in the exercise of those
@SaorAlba said:
Oh WeChat, what a pain in the a$$, I could never get it to work even on an iPhone 6. That indeed what everyone was using and I wasn't. At least my daughter could get the app to work on her phone and still uses it to keep in touch with friends there.
@Smudge said:
This note is legal tender for ALL debts public and private.
From www.treasury.gov (emphasis mine):
"I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn't this illegal?
The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."
This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy."
I wonder if the "commerce clause" could preempt state and local laws and or corporate policies banning cash or conversely create a cashless economy?
@Justacommeman said:
My favorite coffee shop doesn’t take cash for purchases. They do ironically have a tip jar
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@coinbuf said:
A cashless society will never work, how will all the panhandlers at every street corner beg for if there is no physical money.
No problem we have the technology💡Just slap a reader between their cheeks. Gives a whole new meaning to "bend down and touch your toes"🤸🏼♂️ That will leave a few marks of the beast 🤐
It takes HUGE macadamias to post a sign that says the place has gone cashless and then put a cash tip jar underneath. There are a lot of things I would jam into that jar but cash would not be one of them.
@JBK said:
It takes HUGE macadamias to post a sign that says the place has gone cashless and then put a cash tip jar underneath. There are a lot of things I would jam into that jar but cash would not be one of them.
While they are watching, you should take out your credit card and wave it over the top of the jar and then put it back in your wallet just to see their reaction.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Comments
I agree. All cars today are made with computers---antique cars still go for record prices. Gold coins have not been in circulation for almost a hundred years---didn't hurt their popularity to be collected. Probably more likely that it may cause a renewed interest in rare coins. Certain people in a cashless society will want something tangible--could see precious metals benefiting.
I am not the biggest techie by a long shot, but even I noticed an issue with a friend's smartphone. She kept getting messages asking her to rate or review every retail establishment she had visited. It was based on a location tracker rather than spending, and when I turned off some setting the barrage stopped.
If/when it is all integrated - payment, communications, location - there will be no end to the intrusions. There are a few sci-fi movies and books from past decades that will have come true.
Every time I use my card I feel I’m exposing myself to theft. The more I use it the more it’s exposing me to fraud. We use it plenty out of necessity but I try to limit its use. It seems every other month there is something on the statement I didn’t buy and needs follow up to have credited. Things like a CVS purchase in another state or one time we had a run of gas station purchases at a station that didn’t exist. Usually small amounts but because of the risk I keep some relatively low limits.
If get a sketchy feeling about a situation or it’s employees I pay with cash. Still, numbers get stolen, sold and used.
For my business, I get reports based on info generated by an online search someone did and if the person actually came in the business after that, based on their location tracker.
It’s obvious to me that people are more free with their money when they’re swiping their card. Helps sales. If they had to peel off a bunch of Benjamins, they would naturally think harder about the purchase. Just part of the game.
The elimination of cash will IMO eliminate the casual collector. Don't see how it could play out otherwise. Might be a spurt of interest among the general public for a short time, after which the field will be left to those with a deeper interest in numismatics or collecting.
Probably true. Out of sight, out of mind. Coins will become more like antiques or other collectables - you will need to have a pre-existing interest in order to want to seek them out.
I owned a small restaurant in Boca Raton,Fl (sold it 6 years ago).In the last few years of my ownership I was approached, more than once, by credit card companies offering a financial incentive if I would agree to go cashless....I always declined.The offer was substantial btw.It has been the plan/idea of these companies all along and they have been patiently working on it for many years.
By using my card instead of cash I get 2% cash back (beats 0% with cash). Never an issue with spam, etc. I have one card just for online purchases so in case it gets stolen or hacked, I can kill it and get another number without killing my day to day in person purchases. If you are concerned about credit hacks, etc, freeze your credit at the three credit bureaus.
Aren't the "other" payment forms going to take the CC companies goldmine? Apple Pay, Google Pay, Paypal….heck, even Samsung wants me to use "Samsung Pay" on my phone!...
I know the fees are now probably boiled into the price of everything now already.....But it irks me that we may have no choice but to pay some private company to use our own money.
I LIKE cash. The CC comes out only for large purchases, and even then only as a convenience.
I still trade chickens and goats. What's the world coming to ?
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
And yet I don't see the credit card processing companies telling us they'll wave the fee's they charge us if we tell customers we only take card here at the camera store. No one goes to a pub and has a $1.35 bill. People do come into the camera store for one mount board or one sleeve for a roll of film. If they pay with a card and I don't charge the customer and extra $.45 for the card I'd lose money. I'm not losing money on the sale because you don't want to carry some paper in your pocket.
Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.
Read above, has no applicability, because there is no debt. Totally meaningless statement.
Ask the people of Puerto Rico what they thought of their banking industry, electronic payment, credit cards etc after Hurricane Maria. Without power all transactions revert back to the most basic and simplified form of payment - cash. And of course you couldn't get it out of the bank - you were then better off having it stuffed in your mattress or in a safe place.
I foresee in the near future we will have more and more electrical failures caused by unnatural human caused disasters like hacking by state sponsored actors from N. Korea, Russia and China. It has happened on a small scale already in N. America, but Russian hackers have brought down the power grids in Latvia, Ukraine over the past few years. It is not a question of whether, but when and how big.
See how you feel about electronic payment then.
A cashless society will never work, how will all the panhandlers at every street corner beg for if there is no physical money.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I know I spend a lot less when using cash vs, debit cards because you can actually see the money leaving your possession and you get that sinking feeling and also your somewhat limited to how much you brought. But, with plastic I can insert my chip and feel good about it...right after my silent prayer while staring at the machine praying to the Man to let there be enough in there. But, shouldn't our collections of coins increase in value once the mark on the forehand/head is the only way? Oh yea, I'm in south Texas and have never experienced that problem, yet. A bunch of happy robots cyber buying $20 coffees until Coin scratch walks in with a pocket full of pennies. Tragic
Certainly there is a growing use of credit cards... and some businesses not accepting cash. I do use CC's in some cases...but I always have around $300 in cash in my pocket... sometimes more. Certain transactions are always cash. At restaurants or bars, I always tip in cash - directly to the server. At my age, I will not see a totally cashless society.. which I doubt will exist anytime in the relatively near future (100 years for example). Meanwhile, I will carry cash and cards and spend my merry way through this fantastic life.
Cheers, RickO
I use Apple Pay everywhere I can because it's so quick and convenient. Indeed, were it possible I'd use it to buy a stamp but the stupid Post Office doesn't accept Apple Pay.
I have not run into any venues in Houston which don’t take cash. Cash is king at places like Ritz Houston, Taco Bell, or Covergirls.
I carry cash and use it a lot. For McDonald’s, BK, Jack n Box I pay with cash and use change from my change purse. They must think I am cheapo when I use pennies get it my exact. The digital new world of work allows them track u do micro mgt bad things. Every time tech outfits they change something it step backwards. It’s all stuff to tighten noose....rip u. Ol Rip (nickname) in coin club who defaulted on $50k cc debt he used to buy coins / addl investment his coin biz would be lost in the cashless places. He told me “after my first bankruptcy thought never again but then w job loss at 65 due to Oil Price Crash, they won’t hire us (ageism) now my second. So stick it to them take their usury rates rot in hades. The mark of tru success b broke when u kick.”
$15 - $20 for a salad there? - I would turnaround walk out door.
IMHO you get a haircut, you are obligated to pay ( debt) for it. The currency bill in hand reads "legal tender for all debts, public or private".
I know some one who was arrested for leaving a check for a meal bill. Police said not legal tender.
Sorry, above should read. And private.
Please read again. If the business posts NO CASH, you cannot make a purchase, as there is NO DEBT. Read the US Courts and Federal Reserve guidance.
You walk into store, order a meal at the cashier, but have only cash. The cashier declines it, as they do not take cash. There is NO DEBT, meal is cancelled.
Fly on an airplane? The little carts coming down the aisle are NO CASH. If you only have cash, you cannot make a purchase.
I can decline to take cash any day any time, if you do not have a debt with me. That includes not making my stuff available to you.
Since you reference the Federal Reserve note, ask them:
Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment?
Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."
This statute means that all United States money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law which says otherwise.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm
No disagreement from me on the right to refuse cash if posted as such. It's an individual right to do so. But...
To preform or accept the service or goods without advising no cash in advance is another issue. No one is compelled and I hope never is, to patronize a no cash establishment or policy. I would have a major problem if cashless became mandatory under law.
Best
J
On several occasions, the McDonald's I frequent had a sign on the CC machine saying "cash only"
I always carry cards and cash so it's never a problem for me. My brother in law, however, usually only carries a card with him as do many people nowadays...
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In China, not only have many stores stopped accepting cash, it's sparked a reaction from the central bank:
https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2160703/china-takes-action-against-merchants-who-refuse-cash-e-payment
I was in China this last June and July - it is very possible to do practically any transaction with Apple Pay or other apps. It can be annoying if you don't trust the apps or the government monitoring them though. So I never got to rent a bike or buy goodies out of vending machines since a lot of them don't take cash now.
Orwellian
It doesn't seem to be an issue for the CIA....
It always amused me that kids in NYC pay for a one dollar purchase with a fob or phone.
I only use cash in restaurants in NYC after my credit card was twice "read" by waiters with scanners, who then tried to make purchases. I will just restrict my business to restaurants who still accept cash.
I wonder how many business go "cash only" because they can't solve the problem of cashiers who steal cash or can't count change.
Commems and Early Type
The max you would ever be held liable for is $50 if your credit card gets stolen. I'm not sure what type of credit card you use if any, however, they do have their benefits...just like cash has its own benefits. Many credit card companies now offer 2% cash back, and that is what I have linked in my paypal account for when I purchase coins/bullion off ebay. CC companies also offer price match on certain items ( if the price of an item you purchased drops within 30 days of purchase, you get the difference credited to your account). CC's also offer extended warranties free of charge on certain purchases and others offer free insurance on car rentals. If you're worried about unauthorized charges, many CC's offer real-time text notifications. I get a text sent to my phone every time my card is charged, so I would know almost immediately if it was compromised.
I get harassed by junkies and bums all the time on my way to work. My go-to line is "sorry, don't have any cash on me" regardless of whether I do or not. I'm waiting for the day one of these people to say no worries and pulls out a square mobile pay for me to swipe my card.
Like others have said, a cashless society would be awful for the individual while great for corporations and Uncle Sam. Imagine every transaction you ever make gets taxed, tracked and logged. If that does happen, I could see a BOOM in coins/bullion as they would be one of the last methods of privacy and a way to settle a private transaction.
The only thing we don’t accept at work is personal checks.
Gov can't require anyone to accept US dollars as payment for a private debt if they aren't will to accept US dollars.
Businesses that don't accept cash should at least post their policy in plain view.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Would you accept any coin/currency made in China?
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Times change fast. I’ve been working out of China since June. Most places including Starbucks don’t take Apple Pay anymore. Too archaic. Almost all transactions are done through WeChat which is also the same App texting, social media and teleconferencing. Anyone who works or lives in China uses this App.
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Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Oh WeChat, what a pain in the a$$, I could never get it to work even on an iPhone 6. That indeed what everyone was using and I wasn't. At least my daughter could get the app to work on her phone and still uses it to keep in touch with friends there.
I have a 6S and it works fine but I resisted for awhile. I tried living there without WeChat. Almost impossible
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Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Went to China on business for a week for the first time in Nov.
Used cash for my small purchases, they still take it but many were surprised. My colleagues there all used wechat, I'll still resist.. I'll use a debit card if i must but no way am i linking my phone to an account or credit card over there.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Any attorney here care to discuss if congress can create a cashless economy through the Interstate Commerce Clause Article 1 sec.8
An interesting read.
https://www.heritage.org/the-constitution/report/commerce-commerce-everywhere-the-uses-and-abuses-the-commerce-clause
Here's small part of the article.
In the worldview of the Framers, informed by their struggle with England and their experience with the Articles of Confederation, the direction of economic policy centered on two powers: the regulation of commerce and the regulation of the money supply. (Taxation, on the other hand, was primarily for raising revenue.) The Constitution removed from the states the power of coining money and the power over interstate commerce and lodged both with the Congress, with the proviso that Congress could not discriminate against any state or region in the exercise of those
Chinese government approved, no doubt.
I believe you can pay your taxes with legal cash, but not with plastic.
However, am not 100% sure.
How many unwitting customers could you "help out" before your CC Company froze your card creating a PITA situation for you?
I wonder if the "commerce clause" could preempt state and local laws and or corporate policies banning cash or conversely create a cashless economy?
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
No problem we have the technology💡Just slap a reader between their cheeks. Gives a whole new meaning to "bend down and touch your toes"🤸🏼♂️ That will leave a few marks of the beast 🤐
Oh you mean that's for money? I always just wrote a tip like: "please make sure you have tolet paper in the rest rooms, thanks your valued customer "😉
Tip them with old transistors.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
It takes HUGE macadamias to post a sign that says the place has gone cashless and then put a cash tip jar underneath. There are a lot of things I would jam into that jar but cash would not be one of them.
While they are watching, you should take out your credit card and wave it over the top of the jar and then put it back in your wallet just to see their reaction.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire