Question for Large Cent collectors.

Insider2 · December 21, 2018 10:29AM

The Redbook lists 1794 coppers by various head types. Images are shown in the book and on line.

Question: Has anyone ever bothered to list EACH of the 1794 cents by both Sheldon # and Head Type? It would be very helpful. for beginners. I have virtually all the books including (the latest?) US Large Cents 1793-1794 Vol#1 by Noyes.

Walkerguy21D · December 21, 2018 11:53AM

The Breen-Borchardt book appears to do this - see pages 234-235
They are each grouped by Head style (using both engraver name and the Head of xxxx).
Below that are the cross references for Sheldon, Breen, Maris, etc ad nauseum.
I assume you have this book, so perhaps I misunderstand your question....

LoveMyLiberty · December 21, 2018 1:15PM

I could not agree more with Walkerguy. In addition, the Breen-Borchardt book
provides essential information about Die states, cracks, bulging, etc. and other
remarks needed to make identification of many difficult pieces in this series.

I would not use the Redbook for such a task. It's a nice book, but you need to
attach a trailer to your vehicle to take it any where.

Insider2 · December 21, 2018 3:11PM

THANK YOU. I will get this book.

Insider2 · December 21, 2018 3:19PM

@Walkerguy21D said:
The Breen-Borchardt book appears to do this - see pages 234-235
They are each grouped by Head style (using both engraver name and the Head of xxxx).
Below that are the cross references for Sheldon, Breen, Maris, etc ad nauseum.
I assume you have this book, so perhaps I misunderstand your question....

Cannot find it. Full title? Publisher? Is that the Whitman book by Bowers?

carabonnair · December 21, 2018 4:13PM

Is it this one?
WALTER BREEN'S ENCYCLOPEDIA OF EARLY UNITED STATES CENTS, 1793-1814
Edited by Mark Borckardt
Published by Bowers and Merena, 2000

carabonnair · December 21, 2018 4:21PM

Our host has it on their site here: https://www.pcgs.com/books/earlycents/

Edited to show the page https://www.pcgs.com/books/earlycents/1794-092.aspx

Walkerguy21D · December 21, 2018 4:46PM

Yes that’s it....I’m fortunate enough to have Craig Sholleys personal copy, complete with all his extensive notations and footnotes.

As a side note, I know Mark B. from when he was a small time dealer working for his father back in my town in Ohio. Boy do I wish I was doing large cents back then! Mark has long since moved on to much bigger things.

Insider2 · December 21, 2018 4:58PM

Thanks for the link! Bought the book anyway.

BigMoose · December 22, 2018 5:24AM

Heads of 93 are Sheldon 17 through Sheldon 20.
Heads of 94 are Sheldon 21 through Sheldon 66.
Heads of 95 are Sheldon 67 through Sheldon 72.

burfle23 · December 22, 2018 8:17AM

@BigMoose said:
Heads of 93 are Sheldon 17 through Sheldon 20.
Heads of 94 are Sheldon 21 through Sheldon 66.
Heads of 95 are Sheldon 67 through Sheldon 72.

It is interesting that the Redbook now lists the 1st "Gardner Heads" as low relief heads of '94 (S-67-71) and the S-72 as the exact head of '95. Sheldon also called the S-72 the exact head due to the shape of the lowest lock.

burfle23 · December 22, 2018 8:22AM

@Walkerguy21D said:
Yes that’s it....I’m fortunate enough to have Craig Sholleys personal copy, complete with all his extensive notations and footnotes.

As a side note, I know Mark B. from when he was a small time dealer working for his father back in my town in Ohio. Boy do I wish I was doing large cents back then! Mark has long since moved on to much bigger things.

Mark is a great guy and real influence in the Hobby and a staunch supporter of EAC; I use many of the catalogs he has been responsible for as resources for images and insight into early copper. Had the opportunity to spend a few hours with Craig at Baltimore earlier this year trying to make out some of the early copper counterfeits.

BillJones · December 22, 2018 8:32AM

For me the easiest way to tell which Head of '94 you have is to learn how they look. I only have one 1794 cent, and it is a Head of '94. It is an S-21.

Here is another Head of '94 I owned years ago.

Here is a 1795 cent that illustrates the Head of '95, which used the same partial matrix die for the bust of Ms. Liberty. Note the lower relief, which allowed the dies to last longer.

I don't have a 1793 Head '93 because of the rarity and expense. "Coin Facts" has some good illustrations of that.

Walkerguy21D · December 22, 2018 8:34AM

Insider2 · December 22, 2018 10:50AM

@BigMoose said:
Heads of 93 are Sheldon 17 through Sheldon 20.
Heads of 94 are Sheldon 21 through Sheldon 66.
Heads of 95 are Sheldon 67 through Sheldon 72.

This is exactly what I needed in the first place. I'll add this to each Sheldon # in my reference books. Thanks to all for the time-saving replies.

Insider2 · December 22, 2018 10:55AM

@BillJones said: "For me the easiest way to tell which Head of '94 you have is to learn how they look."

Several of us have been trying "the-way-they-look" method for years and IT DOES NOT WORK in many cases. What is posted in this thread will take several minutes (at the minimum) off the time it takes to attribute the "head type" of a coin.

Thanks all for the best Christmas present.

BillJones · December 22, 2018 11:56AM

Okay, try this as an atribution guide.

The Head of '94 is in higher relief, and the hair is more detailed. Frankly I look at the high grade S-21 that I have and marvel at how elegant the obverse design is for a simple cent.

The Head of '95 is in lower relief with not as much hair detail. The coin looks more pedestrian, and it’s not nearly as elegant, not even a high grade. The last curl in Ms. Liberty’s hair is curved.

The Head of ’93 is rare, and almost always is badly worn. The relief is lower than it is on the Head of ’94 coins, and I don’t see as much hair detail on the higher grade ones, at least not on the 1794 version of this Bust. The late Herb Silberman once said to me that he thought that the 1793 Cap Cents were the most beautiful U.S. coin. That would be true for a early cent collector who really wants one, but I actually like the high grade 1794, Head of ’94 large cents more.

Here is the picture guide from “Coin Facts.”

Insider2 · December 22, 2018 2:44PM

@BillJones said:
Okay, try this as an atribution guide.

The Head of '94 is in higher relief, and the hair is more detailed. Frankly I look at the high grade S-21 that I have and marvel at how elegant the obverse design is for a simple cent.

The Head of '95 is in lower relief with not as much hair detail. The coin looks more pedestrian, and it’s not nearly as elegant, not even a high grade. The last curl in Ms. Liberty’s hair is curved.

The Head of ’93 is rare, and almost always is badly worn. The relief is lower than it is on the Head of ’94 coins, and I don’t see as much hair detail on the higher grade ones, at least not on the 1794 version of this Bust. The late Herb Silberman once said to me that he thought that the 1793 Cap Cents were the most beautiful U.S. coin. That would be true for a early cent collector who really wants one, but I actually like the high grade 1794, Head of ’94 large cents more.

Here is the picture guide from “Coin Facts.”

Thanks Bill. I already have it, I've tried using it, and in MHO: *IT SUCKS!**

Confirmation: When I gave this image to a 35 - 40 year experienced Professional Authenticator to use, he couldn't get half the "head" attributions correct. WE DON'T ATTRIBUTE MS-66+ copper.

I cannot wait to update my reference books with the information I've received in this thread.

Thanks!

burfle23 · December 22, 2018 3:06PM

@Insider2 said:

@BillJones said:
Okay, try this as an atribution guide.

The Head of '94 is in higher relief, and the hair is more detailed. Frankly I look at the high grade S-21 that I have and marvel at how elegant the obverse design is for a simple cent.

The Head of '95 is in lower relief with not as much hair detail. The coin looks more pedestrian, and it’s not nearly as elegant, not even a high grade. The last curl in Ms. Liberty’s hair is curved.

The Head of ’93 is rare, and almost always is badly worn. The relief is lower than it is on the Head of ’94 coins, and I don’t see as much hair detail on the higher grade ones, at least not on the 1794 version of this Bust. The late Herb Silberman once said to me that he thought that the 1793 Cap Cents were the most beautiful U.S. coin. That would be true for a early cent collector who really wants one, but I actually like the high grade 1794, Head of ’94 large cents more.

Here is the picture guide from “Coin Facts.”

Thanks Bill. I already have it, I've tried using it, and in MHO: *IT SUCKS!**

Confirmation: When I gave this image to a 35 - 40 year experienced Professional Authenticator to use, he couldn't get half the "head" attributions correct. WE DON'T ATTRIBUTE MS-66+ copper.

I cannot wait to update my reference books with the information I've received in this thread.

Thanks!

Using that image for heads of '95 misses the exact head of '95 S-72!

Question for Large Cent collectors.

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