Whoa, ouch!
Seeing those melted boxes is doing something to me.
Just a tough pic to see, but glad you at this stage at least, safe, and now can partially concentrate on restoring some semblance of normalcy in this all, somehow.
What a punch to the gut. At least you have evidence necessary for the insurance claim/ Federal and State relief/ possible lawsuit against the utility company, etc. My heart goes out to you.
I've been off for a couple of days. Let me say that I'm very pleased your safe was there for you to recover and looking at your home again I'm so very sorry for your losses, but incredibly thrilled you and the family are well. Coins don't look good obviously. I'm not sure if I would be prying them apart. I guess I would have to be in your shoes, but 1 thing is certain. It would be very kind and thoughtful if PCGS did come through for you and was able to take your molten boxes and cut the coins out professionally and reslab them. I would bet unfortunately that the grades will indeed change d/t heat, vapors, and other unforseen changes. If PCGS does come through (I believe they have a big heart and will) it would be nice to have a "Paradise fire" label for your collection. I know I would buy one if you needed to resell.
As always, I wish you the best of luck.
Paul.
P.S. @crazyhounddog I read that you have rented a house. If you PM me your new addy, I would love to send you something from my own collection to get you started on your "New" collection, or maybe something for X-mas.
@AUandAG said:
Underwriter Laboratories has studied fires of all sorts. With sensors inside homes, etc. They are the ones that rate your safes (newer safes). This is what they say:
.
Wild Fires
People in the western states and wooded areas also need to be concerned about forest fires. In a forest fire, the temperature on the forest floor can reach 1,470°F, with hotter and hotter temperatures the higher you are off the ground.
They say the average home fire is 1,200 degrees at eye level within two minutes. Then the heat goes down due to oxygen starvation by the structure. Then it shoots straight up when the fire department breaches the outside an allows for the return of oxygen...temp can double to 2,500 degrees and then remains there for just a few minutes until the fire departments can get water on the blaze. It will then fall drastically and the worst heat is over.
The Los Angeles Fire Chief told a group of us "volunteer" firefighters that an acre of scrub oak, oak brush, California Oak, etc burn with the intensity of an Atom bomb. Stopping such a fire is extremely difficult. I was living in rural Colorado at the time (1980's) and he advised that the city/county establish laws forcing residents to remove all brush from around the home. He said 20' would be great and more even better. I had a beautiful clump of scrub oak and a huge boulder at one corner of my home. When I looked at it I could see the fire's path right up to the side of my home. Hated to remove that brush but did for safety's sake. I heard that 20 years later a brush fire (there were pines, too) did start on the hill behind that home. Thanks to all the city folk cutting back their brush only a few home were damaged and none lost.
The odds of losing your coins to a fire is far greater than losing them to theft.
bob
Makes me wonder how the SDBs in the Paridise, CA banks fared.
Since the PCGS and NGC readily conserve and grade coins from shipwrecks that were on the bottom of the ocean for many decades, they ought to be willing to listen to another proposal.
Instead of "shipwreck effect" maybe the coins could be marketed as "wildfire effect from Paradise" or something to that effect. Of course, that suggests that you would be willing to sell some inventory which is plausible given the overall situation.
If there is a market for sunken coins, there ought to be a market for survivors of an infamous wildfire.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
@Cameonut said:
Look for an opportunity out of all this mess.
Since the PCGS and NGC readily conserve and grade coins from shipwrecks that were on the bottom of the ocean for many decades, they ought to be willing to listen to another proposal.
Instead of "shipwreck effect" maybe the coins could be marketed as "wildfire effect from Paradise" or something to that effect. Of course, that suggests that you would be willing to sell some inventory which is plausible given the overall situation.
If there is a market for sunken coins, there ought to be a market for survivors of an infamous wildfire.
I agree, but am still hoping that many of them won't need that much (if any) conservation at all other than reholdering.
@crazyhounddog said:
Although this safe is rated up to 2000 degrees I have my problems. All of these separate boxes came out in one group, along with my Kimber.
Hi Joe,
First, everyone at PCGS would like to extend our deepest sympathies for the loss of your home and possessions, we along with all of the forum users are glad to have you on the boards and we are thankful you and your family made it out ok.
I grew up in and around Paradise and can't believe how many houses and businesses were lost, including The Honeyrun Bridge that I remember seeing almost every other weekend. My family was stuck in Paradise/Magalia and my sister sent me videos of them barely making it out 20 minutes after the evacuation was called but luckily they made it out and were fortunate enough to have their house in Magalia saved.
I, along with I'm sure many others, was able to witness the caring and thoughtfulness of everyone in Northern California and across the country and world with the #buttestrong and #paradisestrong.
We'd like to work with you as much as we can to get as many of your coins back in holders as possible.
Within the next day or so you will be receiving an email from our team with information on how to get everything to PCGS to have it reviewed and potentially reholdered.
We will do our best to get everything back into PCGS holders but we will need to take a look at everything in its raw form. We won't be able to guarantee every coin will be put back into a PCGS holder with the same grade, or in a PCGS holder at all but we will use the resources available to us to restore and holder as many of your coins as possible at no cost to you.
We understand completely that this will not bring back everything else you have lost but we hope that this will help you get a little closer to feeling like life is back to normal.
Should you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me directly at dtalk@collectors.com
@PCGSCSManager said:
We'd like to work with you as much as we can to get as many of your coins back in holders as possible.
Within the next day or so you will be receiving an email from our team with information on how to get everything to PCGS to have it reviewed and potentially reholdered.
We will do our best to get everything back into PCGS holders but we will need to take a look at everything in its raw form. We won't be able to guarantee every coin will be put back into a PCGS holder with the same grade, or in a PCGS holder at all but we will use the resources available to us to restore and holder as many of your coins as possible at no cost to you.
We understand completely that this will not bring back everything else you have lost but we hope that this will help you get a little closer to feeling like life is back to normal.
Should you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me directly at dtalk@collectors.com
David, you and the rest of PCGS, are a class act!
They aren't even my coins, and I didn't go through what CHD did, but I want to say "thank you" to you for how you are reaching out to him.
@crazyhounddog said:
Although this safe is rated up to 2000 degrees I have my problems. All of these separate boxes came out in one group, along with my Kimber.
Hi Joe,
First, everyone at PCGS would like to extend our deepest sympathies for the loss of your home and possessions, we along with all of the forum users are glad to have you on the boards and we are thankful you and your family made it out ok.
I grew up in and around Paradise and can't believe how many houses and businesses were lost, including The Honeyrun Bridge that I remember seeing almost every other weekend. My family was stuck in Paradise/Magalia and my sister sent me videos of them barely making it out 20 minutes after the evacuation was called but luckily they made it out and were fortunate enough to have their house in Magalia saved.
I, along with I'm sure many others, was able to witness the caring and thoughtfulness of everyone in Northern California and across the country and world with the #buttestrong and #paradisestrong.
We'd like to work with you as much as we can to get as many of your coins back in holders as possible.
Within the next day or so you will be receiving an email from our team with information on how to get everything to PCGS to have it reviewed and potentially reholdered.
We will do our best to get everything back into PCGS holders but we will need to take a look at everything in its raw form. We won't be able to guarantee every coin will be put back into a PCGS holder with the same grade, or in a PCGS holder at all but we will use the resources available to us to restore and holder as many of your coins as possible at no cost to you.
We understand completely that this will not bring back everything else you have lost but we hope that this will help you get a little closer to feeling like life is back to normal.
Should you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me directly at dtalk@collectors.com
OMG
I truely do not know how to thank you for this wonderful gift. It is still exactly the way it was when I pulled it out of my safe with the exception of that one pcgs box I broke of the group. I got so depressed after looking at it I just tucked the cube away and haven’t looked at it since. Anything I can do for you guys just ask.
With my heart in my hand I say thank you.
Joe and family
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
I agree, that's a stand up move by PCGS. I hope Joe takes the offered opportunity to have his coins restored. Now I'm excited and cant wait to see the photos of the ones that are made whole again.
"May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
It's been wonderful to see all the people stepping up to help Joe as well as the many other victims of this fire. I still have high hopes for the coins in the damaged boxes and holders.
Jack Beymer here in Santa Rosa had PCGS slab a customers coin that survived the 2017 fire storm and they attributed it to the Santa Rosa fire storm on the slab (was a bust dollar if memory serves). Not sure if that's what you want to do here CHD but there is some precedent set for it.
Very noice. Refreshing to see a company willing to put profit aside to help a member in need. Sure hope all the coins are able to make it back in a holder. Way to go PCGS!!!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
@crazyhounddog said:
Although this safe is rated up to 2000 degrees I have my problems. All of these separate boxes came out in one group, along with my Kimber.
Hi Joe,
First, everyone at PCGS would like to extend our deepest sympathies for the loss of your home and possessions, we along with all of the forum users are glad to have you on the boards and we are thankful you and your family made it out ok.
I grew up in and around Paradise and can't believe how many houses and businesses were lost, including The Honeyrun Bridge that I remember seeing almost every other weekend. My family was stuck in Paradise/Magalia and my sister sent me videos of them barely making it out 20 minutes after the evacuation was called but luckily they made it out and were fortunate enough to have their house in Magalia saved.
I, along with I'm sure many others, was able to witness the caring and thoughtfulness of everyone in Northern California and across the country and world with the #buttestrong and #paradisestrong.
We'd like to work with you as much as we can to get as many of your coins back in holders as possible.
Within the next day or so you will be receiving an email from our team with information on how to get everything to PCGS to have it reviewed and potentially reholdered.
We will do our best to get everything back into PCGS holders but we will need to take a look at everything in its raw form. We won't be able to guarantee every coin will be put back into a PCGS holder with the same grade, or in a PCGS holder at all but we will use the resources available to us to restore and holder as many of your coins as possible at no cost to you.
We understand completely that this will not bring back everything else you have lost but we hope that this will help you get a little closer to feeling like life is back to normal.
Should you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me directly at dtalk@collectors.com
I have always been a fan of PCGS, David. And now I am in awe of your thoughtfulness and generosity. Joe is a valuable member here and this shows a deep appreciation of the forum clan.
Big things have been happening on this forum in the past several months. I think one particular member was intrumental in much of the goodwill and other members have responded accordingly.
Then, the nuclear "disagree" thread resulted in more PCGS involvement, and that has turned out to be a positive thing.
I'm not at all stunned that PCGS would do this for CHD. They are a 100% class act company and they back their product. I'm sure that this will benefit PCGS as they probably seldom if ever get burned/melted slabs. This will be a huge learning experience for them as well.
I would love to see the before list of grades and the after list. I hope they are the same. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Unfortunately my thoughts are there is no way the wonderful toning CHD's Buffalo's survived that heat. They may still be gradable...but with a sad heart I can't see them ever being the same.
Sorry to see the slabs and boxes in that state. But I’ll bet the vast majority of the coins are OK. And it’s excellent of PCGS to offer the reholdering.
If I ever wanted a wider audience to sell to, I wouldn't label my coins as the survivor or any fire. Not everyone would care enough. I'd be one to avoid that.
If folks wanted to have keepers and memorialize it, then that is different.
PCGS should do an “unboxing” video showing the process of recovering these coins. Like those videos Dawn did of the ducks after Deepwater Horizon or Exxon Valdez or whichever oil spill it was. Would make a great promotial video.
I agree with Bochiman, I wouldn't name them as being in a fire. I think it would put a stigma on them for some people even though they are in PCGS plastic. I would mount the melted mass of silver coins in an encased frame and name that after the fire.
"May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
That is a good idea .... maybe for liability reason alone it is a good idea
@thevolcanogod said:
PCGS should do an “unboxing” video showing the process of recovering these coins. Like those videos Dawn did of the ducks after Deepwater Horizon or Exxon Valdez or whichever oil spill it was. Would make a great promotial video.
Joe. We don't know each other, but your plight is very heart-sentimental for some of us that deal with mother natures calamities. Alaskans and Californians and Hawaiians all have this in COMMON. Just got ripped up too up here but not as bad as your loss.
I wish you CHEERS and ALOHA to the MOST.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
Comments
Whoa, ouch!
Seeing those melted boxes is doing something to me.
Just a tough pic to see, but glad you at this stage at least, safe, and now can partially concentrate on restoring some semblance of normalcy in this all, somehow.
What a punch to the gut. At least you have evidence necessary for the insurance claim/ Federal and State relief/ possible lawsuit against the utility company, etc. My heart goes out to you.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
I've been off for a couple of days. Let me say that I'm very pleased your safe was there for you to recover and looking at your home again I'm so very sorry for your losses, but incredibly thrilled you and the family are well. Coins don't look good obviously. I'm not sure if I would be prying them apart. I guess I would have to be in your shoes, but 1 thing is certain. It would be very kind and thoughtful if PCGS did come through for you and was able to take your molten boxes and cut the coins out professionally and reslab them. I would bet unfortunately that the grades will indeed change d/t heat, vapors, and other unforseen changes. If PCGS does come through (I believe they have a big heart and will) it would be nice to have a "Paradise fire" label for your collection. I know I would buy one if you needed to resell.
As always, I wish you the best of luck.
Paul.
P.S. @crazyhounddog I read that you have rented a house. If you PM me your new addy, I would love to send you something from my own collection to get you started on your "New" collection, or maybe something for X-mas.
Later, Paul.
Makes me wonder how the SDBs in the Paridise, CA banks fared.
Look for an opportunity out of all this mess.
Since the PCGS and NGC readily conserve and grade coins from shipwrecks that were on the bottom of the ocean for many decades, they ought to be willing to listen to another proposal.
Instead of "shipwreck effect" maybe the coins could be marketed as "wildfire effect from Paradise" or something to that effect. Of course, that suggests that you would be willing to sell some inventory which is plausible given the overall situation.
If there is a market for sunken coins, there ought to be a market for survivors of an infamous wildfire.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
I agree, but am still hoping that many of them won't need that much (if any) conservation at all other than reholdering.
Hi Joe,
First, everyone at PCGS would like to extend our deepest sympathies for the loss of your home and possessions, we along with all of the forum users are glad to have you on the boards and we are thankful you and your family made it out ok.
I grew up in and around Paradise and can't believe how many houses and businesses were lost, including The Honeyrun Bridge that I remember seeing almost every other weekend. My family was stuck in Paradise/Magalia and my sister sent me videos of them barely making it out 20 minutes after the evacuation was called but luckily they made it out and were fortunate enough to have their house in Magalia saved.
I, along with I'm sure many others, was able to witness the caring and thoughtfulness of everyone in Northern California and across the country and world with the #buttestrong and #paradisestrong.
We'd like to work with you as much as we can to get as many of your coins back in holders as possible.
Within the next day or so you will be receiving an email from our team with information on how to get everything to PCGS to have it reviewed and potentially reholdered.
We will do our best to get everything back into PCGS holders but we will need to take a look at everything in its raw form. We won't be able to guarantee every coin will be put back into a PCGS holder with the same grade, or in a PCGS holder at all but we will use the resources available to us to restore and holder as many of your coins as possible at no cost to you.
We understand completely that this will not bring back everything else you have lost but we hope that this will help you get a little closer to feeling like life is back to normal.
Should you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me directly at dtalk@collectors.com
PCGS Set Registry Manager
The "Camp Fire" pedigree could catch on.
Hope it all goes well Joe. Todd has been keeping me informed.
Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
David, you and the rest of PCGS, are a class act!
They aren't even my coins, and I didn't go through what CHD did, but I want to say "thank you" to you for how you are reaching out to him.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Awesome! Fantastic response from our host! I will be watching this thread with even more interest.
OMG
I truely do not know how to thank you for this wonderful gift. It is still exactly the way it was when I pulled it out of my safe with the exception of that one pcgs box I broke of the group. I got so depressed after looking at it I just tucked the cube away and haven’t looked at it since. Anything I can do for you guys just ask.
With my heart in my hand I say thank you.
Joe and family
A big THANK YOU to David Talk and PCGS!
Oh WOW! That is awesome @PCGSCSManager!
PCGS is positively amazing me. I will also add that ATS also amazed me with their donations, too. This coin collecting hobby has some great people!
Hats off to the team at PCGS!
Nice to see some good news. PCGS comes through for you.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
To the extent there are charges for doing this work by our host I would chip in some dollars to partially pay for same.
How about a forum version of go fund a reholder?
I agree, that's a stand up move by PCGS. I hope Joe takes the offered opportunity to have his coins restored. Now I'm excited and cant wait to see the photos of the ones that are made whole again.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Agreed, uber nice indeed!
It's been wonderful to see all the people stepping up to help Joe as well as the many other victims of this fire. I still have high hopes for the coins in the damaged boxes and holders.
HUGE applause for David Talk and the team at PCGS!!!!!!!
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
PCGS is a class act to do this!
I always thought PCGS was a class act. Well, now I know for sure.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
Great news from a great company. That is as fine an offer from a major company as I have witnessed in my 70 years. Thank you PCGS.
jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
PCGS needs to certify that silver puddle.
PCGS is a class act.
Jack Beymer here in Santa Rosa had PCGS slab a customers coin that survived the 2017 fire storm and they attributed it to the Santa Rosa fire storm on the slab (was a bust dollar if memory serves). Not sure if that's what you want to do here CHD but there is some precedent set for it.
Very noice. Refreshing to see a company willing to put profit aside to help a member in need. Sure hope all the coins are able to make it back in a holder. Way to go PCGS!!!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
To be fair to NGC, I would let them have a shot at their holders for the same free deal if they offer it.
That said, I would not fault you for going all in with PCGS
Class act from PCGS.
siliconvalleycoins.com
hoping for the best for you
PCGS is pretty awesome! I hope the coins come back the same..
My YouTube Channel
I have always been a fan of PCGS, David. And now I am in awe of your thoughtfulness and generosity. Joe is a valuable member here and this shows a deep appreciation of the forum clan.
Big things have been happening on this forum in the past several months. I think one particular member was intrumental in much of the goodwill and other members have responded accordingly.
Then, the nuclear "disagree" thread resulted in more PCGS involvement, and that has turned out to be a positive thing.
I'm not at all stunned that PCGS would do this for CHD. They are a 100% class act company and they back their product. I'm sure that this will benefit PCGS as they probably seldom if ever get burned/melted slabs. This will be a huge learning experience for them as well.
I would love to see the before list of grades and the after list. I hope they are the same. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Later, Paul.
I vote a pedigree name of "Campfire Paradise, Survivor"
Way to go PCGS....way to go.
Kudos for PCGS doing this!
Unfortunately my thoughts are there is no way the wonderful toning CHD's Buffalo's survived that heat. They may still be gradable...but with a sad heart I can't see them ever being the same.
I really hope I am wrong.
Sorry to see the slabs and boxes in that state. But I’ll bet the vast majority of the coins are OK. And it’s excellent of PCGS to offer the reholdering.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
Incredibly classy move by PCGS!!
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
If I ever wanted a wider audience to sell to, I wouldn't label my coins as the survivor or any fire. Not everyone would care enough. I'd be one to avoid that.
If folks wanted to have keepers and memorialize it, then that is different.
Just my 2c worth.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
PCGS should do an “unboxing” video showing the process of recovering these coins. Like those videos Dawn did of the ducks after Deepwater Horizon or Exxon Valdez or whichever oil spill it was. Would make a great promotial video.
@PCGSCSManager Thank you
I agree with Bochiman, I wouldn't name them as being in a fire. I think it would put a stigma on them for some people even though they are in PCGS plastic. I would mount the melted mass of silver coins in an encased frame and name that after the fire.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
That is a good idea .... maybe for liability reason alone it is a good idea
Joe. We don't know each other, but your plight is very heart-sentimental for some of us that deal with mother natures calamities. Alaskans and Californians and Hawaiians all have this in COMMON. Just got ripped up too up here but not as bad as your loss.
I wish you CHEERS and ALOHA to the MOST.
Joe and his family have been through so much
I'm so touched at everything PCGS has done to ease their hurt
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
Very nice gesture PCGS.
Best wishes getting things sorted Joe.
Fantastic news. Joe needs all the help his family can get. Cheers to PCGS!
100% Positive BST transactions
PCGS kicks so much ass...I Love it!
what a wonderful thing for PCGS to do for the hobby, I'm thinking the safe did its job.