REAL or NO REAL - 1914 $5 Indian
Comments
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Looks good to me. Headband is nice & detailed. I don't see any issues with the neck behind the tassle. Those are the only 2 things I can remember to look carefully at.
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I don't see anything that leads me to believe that it isn't genuine. That said, there are some really good counterfeits in this series and I wouldn't pronounce this coin as being genuine without first examining it in hand with a good loupe and a good light source.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire1 -
IF NOT authentic, would fool me. How much does it weigh?
"Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein-Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.
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I know $2 1/2's a lot better than $5's, but it looks off to me. Mainly the obverse. If it was raw, I would not buy personally.
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That doubling around the chin looks off to me.
My Current project....https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/album/1607940 -
Only thing that got my eye was how close the date is to the edge. Could be just the lighting.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS0 -
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It's an incused design, so the "doubling" may be just an artifact of photography. I'd like to see how it mic's out in diameter and how much it weighs before passing final judgement, but there's nothing here that screams counterfeit to me. If it is, it's a pretty darn good knock-off!
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
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Yeah, I don't see doubling on the chin, just the way the light hits that incuse area. The luster and overall look of the obverse is what looks off to me. Almost like it is not perfectly flat or something. The sides look like they almost drop off close to the edge.
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I'll say, the more I see the incuse Indians and read discussions about them, the more I like them!
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@mr1874 said:
IF NOT authentic, would fool me. How much does it weigh?The weight is correct. Based on the "doubling" comments I think the photo needs better focus. Will update when I get a chance. Just got a used Canon SLR with 105mm macro lens - focus on smaller coins has been a challenge so far. Prob should have gone with a 150mm
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When I see stars of different sizes and off the rim I back off. bottom right is off the coin it appears.
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com0 -
@asheland said:
I'll say, the more I see the incuse Indians and read discussions about them, the more I like them!A complete set of these attractive little coins won't break the bank to assemble. And a date set (which I have) in the high AU and lower MS levels is less expensive yet. It makes for a quite impressive display.
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@koynekwest said:
@asheland said:
I'll say, the more I see the incuse Indians and read discussions about them, the more I like them!A complete set of these attractive little coins won't break the bank to assemble. It makes for a quite impressive display.
This is a $5 half eagle. Have you priced the 1909-O and the 1929? Those two would break my bank and most of the forum members bank.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire4 -
Agree. Captainhenway was a profession grader and authenticator at ANACS and I would also like to hear his opinion.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire1 -
I'm no expert on Indians, although I have a couple, but it looks good to me.
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I love little Indians. Coins that is. Well, it's not that I don't like all Indians...I do... Oh carp me.
Bring on the experts!!
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS1 -
I could not wait for the expert to chime in
and if it's genuine I would guess MS641 -
@PerryHall said:
Agree. Captainhenway was a profession grader and authenticator at ANACS and I would also like to hear his opinion.
I logged on to this when it was first posted and no one had replied. My gut reaction was that the poster knew it was counterfeit and wanted to "play" us. LOL, I do that all the time as a teaching tool.
Unfortunately, there is virtually no way to authenticate this coin using the images provided. That's why I have not posted until now. I am amused at all the "so-called diagnostics" being thrown about on this thread. There are contact marks in the field that could possibly be matched up to a known C/F by an imaging department at a TPGS.
Sorry, I cannot help.
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Insider2---What does your gut feeling tell you?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire0 -
@PerryHall said:
Insider2---What does your gut feeling tell you?That I'm very hungry.
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i think it is reak there are no obvious signs of it being flase
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@PerryHall said:
@koynekwest said:
@asheland said:
I'll say, the more I see the incuse Indians and read discussions about them, the more I like them!A complete set of these attractive little coins won't break the bank to assemble. It makes for a quite impressive display.
This is a $5 half eagle. Have you priced the 1909-O and the 1929? Those two would break my bank and most of the forum members bank.
Sorry-I was thinking of the $2 1/2.
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My solution is to avoid raw coins The fakes are just so good now.
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And most dealers, consignors, etc. don't want to take returns even if the coin is fake.
We just had some conversations about grading companies at a club meeting tonight. I am a real believer in grading, especially for authentication on coins like this. They club members, one is a currency guy, the other is a major ancients show dealer said that grading is so that unknowledgeable dealers can sell to unknowledgeable collectors. Well that's well and good if the dealers are honest and trustworthy, but the greed factor and bending the truth is just too great in this hobby, we need impartial grading companies.
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Several things look off. I would say there is a fairly good chance this is a good counterfeit. I think your coin has an extra feather among other things. Feel free to PM me for more details.
What the heck do I know! I'm new here and was trying to find a penny in the parking lot to ask ya all about mint errors for my first post.
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When one has to ask, then it’s an automatic 👎
When the stars don’t align....🎵🎶🎵🎶
& when in doubt run to CoinFacts
Check out 1914
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Not authentic, appears to be gold so hopefully purchased as bullion. Congrats!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
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Though I've never bought a raw quarter or half eagle, if that's fake we're in trouble.
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Gold butter toning. Fake.
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Based on the pictures, I would say it is authentic.... I like this series and have seen minor differences in slabbed, authentic coins....No differences that warrant numismatic value of course. I would not buy this piece without in hand evaluation though. Cheers, RickO
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So..... do you know the answer??
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@Insider2 said:
@PerryHall said:
Insider2---What does your gut feeling tell you?That I'm very hungry.
OH BROTHER!
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon2 -
He looks Choctaw and I thought they were supposed to be Cherokee.
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IF it were a 15-D I would be able to spot it right away.
That 14 P is fake. Do the stars follow? No. Does it have wear? Yes. This is why I never cared for this series. 2 1/2 and $5 s
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Typically when it’s good news we’ll be the first to know, when it’s bad or no news, silence is golden. It’s pure human nature behavior.
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Connecticoin---Are you planning to get your coin slabbed? If you do, let us know how you make out. Thanks.
P.S.---I think it's real.Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire0 -
Thanks for the comments. I will try to get an image with better focus and post it. Taking some fiddling to get optimal results from my new Canon SLR.
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Too clean and the edge looks too much like a wire rim.
Color looks off, but that could just be the pic.
I vote bad.
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OK here are some better pictures. Let me know what you think - real or if not real, why?
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It seems fine for an AU (I do not know the die characteristics of known fakes for 1914s), but I would look at everything close that came with the Vermont.
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Looks pretty dang good. The date is still a bit close to the edge, but looks good color-wise and CoinFacts. Some stars are a bit edge-close, but there is some variance with the Facts piece as well. I think you have stumped the group's pros and cons. I'm going with REAL.
Yo' - @davewesen thinkin confusin with the Vermontin or sippin the Bourbin?Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS1 -
Real. I've seen real PCGS/NGC slabbed Indian $5's with the stars and date close to the edge.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire1 -
Good color, date & stars can be close to the edge. Not a cheap knock off from China. I still think I see something that would prevent me from buying the coin.
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@ifthevamzarockin said:
Good color, date & stars can be close to the edge. Not a cheap knock off from China. I still think I see something that would prevent me from buying the coin.What do you see that you don't like on this coin?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire0 -
Looks good to me.
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@Akbeez said:
Looks pretty dang good. The date is still a bit close to the edge, but looks good color-wise and CoinFacts. Some stars are a bit edge-close, but there is some variance with the Facts piece as well. I think you have stumped the group's pros and cons. I'm going with REAL.
Yo' - @davewesen thinkin confusin with the Vermontin or sippin the Bourbin?nope, another thread with a counterfeit Vermont
it could be just the picture, but the beads on the headband look weak/missing at various places
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I still vote fake. Personally, I would not buy that one.
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