@BlindedByEgo said:
After reading this thread, the only thing I'm left with is a feeling of shock as to how many coin/ medal collectors are contracts and IP attorneys.
Is it possible that some things are evident? You don't need to be a doctor to know that someone has a bloody nose!
I've always considered you an intelligent person. Certainly making a common sense assertion of opinion (as you illustrate) takes neither special skills nor training. Discussions of the law or legality, however - just as much as discussions of etiology - go beyond mere observation.
Further, it seems that the question is really one of moral and ethical considerations.
I disagree! This appears to be much more involved than ethics. Money and property was transferred. Did the seller commit a crime or is he just ignorant? How does ownership transfer? If an item is fake can ownership actually transfer? Seems the auction house is assumed to take care of a consignment. If a buyer returns a damaged item what happens!
Shucks, I thought you could answer with some of the legal considerations about "property" I just outlined BECAUSE ANYTING I POST is just another uninformed opinion based on something that seems pretty evident to me: RETURN THE MEDAL and don't change its condition in any way!
I agree with you on what I consider to be the right thing to do. I am not an attorney, and render no amateur legal opinions, ever. I've had that desire beaten out of me by real ones.
Call ahead to whoever is requesting the return (auction house or consignor), arrange for them to pay shipping costs and return the items with receipt acknowledgement. Cheers, RickO
@MorganMan94 said:
A month or so ago I bought some coins (well actually medals) from an auction on Liveauctioneers. Thankfully I paid with a credit card because the fakes were terrible! I know it was my mistake but I genuinely thought they were just bad photos. The auction house has decent Google reviews. I filed a claim with my credit card and won easily, but now the seller has asked me to return them to him. Should I? They are terrible fakes and likely couldn't fool anyone.
An extra: I paid $87.50 and the seller did not offer shipping of any sort so I had to call UPS to pick them up, package them, and deliver them for a total of approximately $20.
Hello auction house. Can you send me better pictures of this lot? I'm an expert on these and see some inconsistencies in the poor quality pictures that lead me to believe they may counterfeit. I'm quite sure you would not want to have counterfeits pass on to a less knowledgeable buyer, and if I can confirm their authenticity I will be an active bidder for them. Also, I noticed that you do not list a delivery charge and buyers must arrange for shipping on their own. What is the procedure for that and what's your estimate of what that will cost.
Based on the auction house response and your assessment, their action after you give them your opinion will either make them look very good or very bad.
@MorganMan94 said:
A month or so ago I bought some coins (well actually medals) from an auction on Liveauctioneers. Thankfully I paid with a credit card because the fakes were terrible! I know it was my mistake but I genuinely thought they were just bad photos. The auction house has decent Google reviews. I filed a claim with my credit card and won easily, but now the seller has asked me to return them to him. Should I? They are terrible fakes and likely couldn't fool anyone.
An extra: I paid $87.50 and the seller did not offer shipping of any sort so I had to call UPS to pick them up, package them, and deliver them for a total of approximately $20.
Hello auction house. Can you send me better pictures of this lot? I'm an expert on these and see some inconsistencies in the poor quality pictures that lead me to believe they may counterfeit. I'm quite sure you would not want to have counterfeits pass on to a less knowledgeable buyer, and if I can confirm their authenticity I will be an active bidder for them. Also, I noticed that you do not list a delivery charge and buyers must arrange for shipping on their own. What is the procedure for that and what's your estimate of what that will cost.
Based on the auction house response and your assessment, their action after you give them your opinion will either make them look very good or very bad.
I'm with you on the first part, but not necessarily in regard to the shipping issue.
Most live auctions do not ship - you are expected to pay for your item at the auction and take it with you. As a courtesy for absentee bidders they will hold onto the item for a reasonable period of time (a week, for example) while you arrange for the item to be picked up by some one you contract with to arrange delivery.
I personally have only dealt with one auction house that did their own packing and shipping. The rest gave some names of local businesses (such as UPS stores) which you could call to make arrangements. In those cases, the auction house is in no position to give an estimate on shipping. Potential bidders can contact the shippers in advance and give the lot # and they will give an estimate.
In most/all cases these terms are clearly stated in the terms and conditions of the auction, which any online bidder must agree to before they can register.
In today's world we are sometimes conditioned to just "click the box" to get rid of the error or warning, but in many cases that one little click means a great deal.
I think in this case the OP said shipping was $20. For that amount, someone from the local UPS store got in their car, drove to the auction house and picked up the item, took it back to the store, packed it, and added a shipping label that included UPS delivery.
I've had lots of stuff shipped this way, and although I hate the expense of shipping, the actual cost always seems like a relative bargain considering what I get for it.
I am not trying to pile on the OP by discussing any of this, but I think this thread is an important lesson for anyone considering bidding absentee in a live auction.
I agree with JBK here. You clicked on the terms and conditions and agreed to it. If you go back I'm sure you will find wording that states that all items are sold as is with no warranty expressed.
If you went to a local auction and tried to return something you bought a few days earlier I really dought they would return your money. How would they know you if swapped the coin for another?
Most people think just because an auction house has coins in their auction that they must be coin experts. The fact that they offered to refund you money is a blessing I wouldn't be complaining on the shipping especially seeings how you bought them on poor pictures.
Comments
I agree with you on what I consider to be the right thing to do. I am not an attorney, and render no amateur legal opinions, ever. I've had that desire beaten out of me by real ones.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
I tried to get into law school at both Georgetown and Notre Dame after a military tour. Several of my classmates made the cut,
Call ahead to whoever is requesting the return (auction house or consignor), arrange for them to pay shipping costs and return the items with receipt acknowledgement. Cheers, RickO
Hello auction house. Can you send me better pictures of this lot? I'm an expert on these and see some inconsistencies in the poor quality pictures that lead me to believe they may counterfeit. I'm quite sure you would not want to have counterfeits pass on to a less knowledgeable buyer, and if I can confirm their authenticity I will be an active bidder for them. Also, I noticed that you do not list a delivery charge and buyers must arrange for shipping on their own. What is the procedure for that and what's your estimate of what that will cost.
Based on the auction house response and your assessment, their action after you give them your opinion will either make them look very good or very bad.
I'm with you on the first part, but not necessarily in regard to the shipping issue.
Most live auctions do not ship - you are expected to pay for your item at the auction and take it with you. As a courtesy for absentee bidders they will hold onto the item for a reasonable period of time (a week, for example) while you arrange for the item to be picked up by some one you contract with to arrange delivery.
I personally have only dealt with one auction house that did their own packing and shipping. The rest gave some names of local businesses (such as UPS stores) which you could call to make arrangements. In those cases, the auction house is in no position to give an estimate on shipping. Potential bidders can contact the shippers in advance and give the lot # and they will give an estimate.
In most/all cases these terms are clearly stated in the terms and conditions of the auction, which any online bidder must agree to before they can register.
In today's world we are sometimes conditioned to just "click the box" to get rid of the error or warning, but in many cases that one little click means a great deal.
I think in this case the OP said shipping was $20. For that amount, someone from the local UPS store got in their car, drove to the auction house and picked up the item, took it back to the store, packed it, and added a shipping label that included UPS delivery.
I've had lots of stuff shipped this way, and although I hate the expense of shipping, the actual cost always seems like a relative bargain considering what I get for it.
I am not trying to pile on the OP by discussing any of this, but I think this thread is an important lesson for anyone considering bidding absentee in a live auction.
I agree with JBK here. You clicked on the terms and conditions and agreed to it. If you go back I'm sure you will find wording that states that all items are sold as is with no warranty expressed.
If you went to a local auction and tried to return something you bought a few days earlier I really dought they would return your money. How would they know you if swapped the coin for another?
Most people think just because an auction house has coins in their auction that they must be coin experts. The fact that they offered to refund you money is a blessing I wouldn't be complaining on the shipping especially seeings how you bought them on poor pictures.
Keep them as a lesson learned! You got off pretty easy on this one!