Home U.S. Coin Forum

We just cracked population 10 total for MS67BN Lincolns in the 50-year wheatback run

One of the Unicorns (extreme rarities) in the Lincoln Cent series (especially for toned Lincoln collectors) are those coins graded PCGS MS67BN. This is an extremely rare grade / color-class combination. Just to emphasize how rare — from the founding of PCGS in 1985 until 2012 (a time period spanning 27 years) — the highest graded Wheat Lincoln Cent in the Brown Color Class was MS66BN. In May 2012, the very first MS67BN was graded: a stunning 1956-D Lincoln Cent. Since May 2012 (about 6.5 years) nine more MS67BN Lincolns have been graded making the total population 10 (as of November 2018) in this rarefied grade / color-class combination.

Shown below is a side by side comparison of thumbnail images of all the 10 known PCGS MS67BN Lincolns as of 11/25/2018. All images are either TrueView (TV) or CoinFacts (CF) photos shot by Phil Arnold — the lone exception is the 1909-S VDB (coin #4), where no out-of-the-slab photo was taken. For this latter coin, I used the slab auction photos from the Great Collections website. I believe that if a TV or CF photo existed for this 1909-S VDB, it would have a bit more “pop”. The remaining “phantom” coin in the group is the 1936 that was graded in July 2017, where no known photo exists.

It’s interesting that after the first MS67BN was graded in May 2012, two more quickly followed in the next 10 months. Following those 3, there was a long gap of almost 4 years that lasted until December 2016. Since then however, we’ve gotten about 3 graded per year. Theories on this recent relative increase could be some near-term “gradeflation” or perhaps more high-grade toned Lincoln submissions in the past few years, prompted by the addition of PCGS “Toned” Lincoln Registry Sets (which give bonus points to BN’s) in 2016.

Comments

  • david3142david3142 Posts: 3,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gorgeous coins! It looks like at least a couple of them should be graded RB.

  • abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like only the 1909-S VDB iand maybe the 1936-D is a true brown.

  • goldengolden Posts: 10,023 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That 1916-D is absolutely stunning!

  • RonyahskiRonyahski Posts: 3,119 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This reminds me of the era years ago when collectors realized that they didn't have to dip all of their silver coins shiny white. Toning is cool. What comes around.

    Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice.



    Hoard the keys.
  • ParadisefoundParadisefound Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    :) big 10

  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WingedLiberty1957 Thank you for sharing the history and current pop for MS67BNs.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very interesting... Thank you for the information and the pictures. I imagine should a 68 MSBN show up, it will command a significant premium. Cheers, RickO

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,634 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sweet cents!

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 11,898 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2018 9:52AM

    @Ronyahski said:
    This reminds me of the era years ago when collectors realized that they didn't have to dip all of their silver coins shiny white. Toning is cool. What comes around.

    However this fascination with and the current rush to pay huge premiums for toning has also created a massive coin doctoring business which is hurting many collectors and destroying some coins. What comes around.

    To the op's post the recent creation of toned sets in the registry has most certainly been the impetus behind these coins being submitted for grading, twenty years ago nobody wanted these coins and dealers basically had to give brown (except for tough and key dates) coins away.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,558 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for this most excellent article.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • NVUNVU Posts: 284 ✭✭✭

    Beautiful coins! and that 16-D has nice orange peel to it

  • RonyahskiRonyahski Posts: 3,119 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinbuf said:

    @Ronyahski said:
    This reminds me of the era years ago when collectors realized that they didn't have to dip all of their silver coins shiny white. Toning is cool. What comes around.

    However this fascination with and the current rush to pay huge premiums for toning has also created a massive coin doctoring business which is hurting many collectors and destroying some coins. What comes around.

    To the op's post the recent creation of toned sets in the registry has most certainly been the impetus behind these coins being submitted for grading, twenty years ago nobody wanted these coins and dealers basically had to give brown (except for tough and key dates) coins away.

    You have it all backwards. The number of coins that may have been doctored in this "current rush", as you call it, for toned coins, pales, by a wide chasm of a margin, to the number of coins that have been dipped, treated, and otherwise doctored in order to garner a RD designation. It is not even open for debate.

    Don't confuse "brown" coins that were given away 20 years ago with wonderfully toned coins that the OP posted. And that is the point, collectors are finally starting to understand: copper coins can be found naturally and beautifully toned. They may be more desirable than the lofty RD designation.

    Thus what comes around - don't dip your silver coins, don't dip your copper coins.

    Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
  • 66RB66RB Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭

    Unfortunately, it looks like a lot of RB's in that group, which is sad, because a true 67 BN IS a unicorn.

    The 16-D sure looks Most SPECTACULAR though :| I remember a heated debate about that when it was a 6BN along with a few other blue Lincolns.

  • WildIdeaWildIdea Posts: 1,878 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice of you to keep track Winged.

    Hard point for me to get around is that these only now started getting graded only a mere 6+ years ago. I tend to think the answer is within the willingness to start awarding the grade at PGGS and what changed their mind.

    Imagine that if you had on hand all the 2000 65 BNs, 280 66 BNs 11,500 65 RBs, 2800 66 RBs and 159 67 RBs holdered since 1985 and graded them all in the same week, that many (I’ll stick my neck out more and say at least 20%) of these grades and color designations could be changed and likely none or many more than 10 would have this lofty 67BN grade.

    I surmise that because shot 66-67 BN Lincoln cents trickle into the mother ship at irregular intervals, it would be near impossible to have consistent issuing of these grades and color designations and therefore, I’m sceptical that these 10 shown here are the best BNs out there and at a minimum, all available 66s with color should head west.

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 11,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Ronyahski said:

    @coinbuf said:

    @Ronyahski said:
    This reminds me of the era years ago when collectors realized that they didn't have to dip all of their silver coins shiny white. Toning is cool. What comes around.

    However this fascination with and the current rush to pay huge premiums for toning has also created a massive coin doctoring business which is hurting many collectors and destroying some coins. What comes around.

    To the op's post the recent creation of toned sets in the registry has most certainly been the impetus behind these coins being submitted for grading, twenty years ago nobody wanted these coins and dealers basically had to give brown (except for tough and key dates) coins away.

    You have it all backwards. The number of coins that may have been doctored in this "current rush", as you call it, for toned coins, pales, by a wide chasm of a margin, to the number of coins that have been dipped, treated, and otherwise doctored in order to garner a RD designation. It is not even open for debate.

    Don't confuse "brown" coins that were given away 20 years ago with wonderfully toned coins that the OP posted. And that is the point, collectors are finally starting to understand: copper coins can be found naturally and beautifully toned. They may be more desirable than the lofty RD designation.

    Thus what comes around - don't dip your silver coins, don't dip your copper coins.

    I think you misunderstood my post, I'm not just talking about copper coins but all coins. Besides dipping is not about deceiving the buying public in the way adding color is, todays doctoring is far worse and much more damaging to the hobby. Also there was no market of any substance 20+ years ago for toned or BN designated copper coins, they were the (forgive the pun) red headed stepchild's compared to RB or RD coins. And in many cases adding color damages the surfaces of coins in a way that cannot be reversed, something that dipping does not do. The fact is that this bubble of high demand for color on coins of all types has brought about the kind of deception that we are now faced with, thus what comes around.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • AuroraBorealisAuroraBorealis Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sweet!

  • 1Mike11Mike1 Posts: 4,427 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow that is nice to look at. Is the reverse similar?

    "May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"

    "A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
  • robecrobec Posts: 6,883 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinbuf said:

    @Ronyahski said:

    @coinbuf said:

    @Ronyahski said:
    This reminds me of the era years ago when collectors realized that they didn't have to dip all of their silver coins shiny white. Toning is cool. What comes around.

    However this fascination with and the current rush to pay huge premiums for toning has also created a massive coin doctoring business which is hurting many collectors and destroying some coins. What comes around.

    To the op's post the recent creation of toned sets in the registry has most certainly been the impetus behind these coins being submitted for grading, twenty years ago nobody wanted these coins and dealers basically had to give brown (except for tough and key dates) coins away.

    You have it all backwards. The number of coins that may have been doctored in this "current rush", as you call it, for toned coins, pales, by a wide chasm of a margin, to the number of coins that have been dipped, treated, and otherwise doctored in order to garner a RD designation. It is not even open for debate.

    Don't confuse "brown" coins that were given away 20 years ago with wonderfully toned coins that the OP posted. And that is the point, collectors are finally starting to understand: copper coins can be found naturally and beautifully toned. They may be more desirable than the lofty RD designation.

    Thus what comes around - don't dip your silver coins, don't dip your copper coins.

    I think you misunderstood my post, I'm not just talking about copper coins but all coins. Besides dipping is not about deceiving the buying public in the way adding color is, todays doctoring is far worse and much more damaging to the hobby. Also there was no market of any substance 20+ years ago for toned or BN designated copper coins, they were the (forgive the pun) red headed stepchild's compared to RB or RD coins. And in many cases adding color damages the surfaces of coins in a way that cannot be reversed, something that dipping does not do. The fact is that this bubble of high demand for color on coins of all types has brought about the kind of deception that we are now faced with, thus what comes around.

    Which of the 9 coins shown do you believe are the result of deception?

  • WingedLiberty1957WingedLiberty1957 Posts: 2,998 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018 12:03PM

    I find the pattern interesting. Four from the mint set era (1956, 1957). Three from the mid 1930's (1936, 1937). Two from the retooled die era (1916), and one from the VDB era (where a ton were saved).

    Other than the VDB -- there is an approximate 20 year gap between each group: 1916, 1936, 1956

  • WingedLiberty1957WingedLiberty1957 Posts: 2,998 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018 12:07PM

    Cardboard Mint Set Toning Era (1956-1957). Some might call all of these borderline BN/RB. IMHO 1957-D is THE MONSTER year/mint for colorful toning. There are just a ton of gorgeous 1957-D's.




  • WingedLiberty1957WingedLiberty1957 Posts: 2,998 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018 12:07PM

    Mid 1930's (1936-1937). Maybe from original rolls? Missing is the 1936 where no photo is known.


  • WingedLiberty1957WingedLiberty1957 Posts: 2,998 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018 12:08PM

    Retooled Die Era (1916). Both of these monsters are solid BNs. My favorite in the group is the 1916-D, but the 1916 also fantastic. Both of these were in PCGS Slabs decades ago (both graded MS66BN at the time).


  • WingedLiberty1957WingedLiberty1957 Posts: 2,998 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2018 8:06AM

    The VDB year. A ton were saved when minted. I am surprised a 1909-VDB from Philly hasn't made the cut yet. Note that the photo shown below is not a TV or CF photo from PCGS, but is a through-the-slab photo from Great Collections. That's probably why this looks a bit dull.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file