@OriginalDan said:
Isn’t gradeflation like Pandora’s box. How can PCGS Stop it without hurting the bottom line?
Develop a new 100 point scale and disavow the old scale all together. Adding expiration dates to the guarantee would also provide a constant stream of revenue.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@OriginalDan said:
Isn’t gradeflation like Pandora’s box. How can PCGS Stop it without hurting the bottom line?
Develop a new 100 point scale and disavow the old scale all together. Adding expiration dates to the guarantee would also provide a constant stream of revenue.
"disavow" the old scale? Well, okay. How about we tweak it a bit and put that good idea you have of an expiration date on the 1 to 70 scale. Then move forward with the 58 to 100 (as I have heard is the change) and put expiration dates on those coins. This way the services can see what the screwed up or charge a nominal fee for a "new re holder" with the new scale.
Perhaps we could all win.
I don’t think the expense / disaster getting all my coins regraded bc somebody wants to go to a 100 PT grading system is a win. What an absudity. Frankly with the market as weak as it is such a move would kill / bankrupt the weak market not to mention the IT mess created.
It may happen one day 50 yrs off with a self grading Holder you can get for two bucks.
They need young blood. The class of 59 is fading after not making the ship right. Time for the younger people in this hobby to shape the future.
As I said in a Hot Topics most baby dealers want instant gratification and profits-slight problem here.
I think PCGS needs to raise its prices-$125.00 to grade a $250,000.00 coin? Really? Make the fee $500.00 and make the grade air tight. The crack out guys would do a lot less of the fees were a lot more to start.
@specialist said:
They need young blood. The class of 59 is fading after not making the ship right. Time for the younger people in this hobby to shape the future.
As I said in a Hot Topics most baby dealers want instant gratification and profits-slight problem here.
I think PCGS needs to raise its prices-$125.00 to grade a $250,000.00 coin? Really? Make the fee $500.00 and make the grade air tight. The crack out guys would do a lot less of the fees were a lot more to start.
They have young blood, could use more.
A lot of people, both dealers and collectors are HIGHLY against young people working for TPG's because they don't want to spend money on "inexperienced" employees looking at their coins and want people with decades of experience. It's a shame really.
@specialist said:
They need young blood. The class of 59 is fading after not making the ship right. Time for the younger people in this hobby to shape the future.
As I said in a Hot Topics most baby dealers want instant gratification and profits-slight problem here.
I think PCGS needs to raise its prices-$125.00 to grade a $250,000.00 coin? Really? Make the fee $500.00 and make the grade air tight. The crack out guys would do a lot less of the fees were a lot more to start.
But if you keep the guarantee for only 2 years, then in a decade you can charge 5 x $125 or $625. PCGS could do this in the name of weeding out coins that turn in the holder. Realistically, PCGS is like an insurance policy. You don't pay your life or auto insurance once and then get a free pass forever. The original model was completely flawed.
@specialist said:
They need young blood. The class of 59 is fading after not making the ship right. Time for the younger people in this hobby to shape the future.
As I said in a Hot Topics most baby dealers want instant gratification and profits-slight problem here.
I think PCGS needs to raise its prices-$125.00 to grade a $250,000.00 coin? Really? Make the fee $500.00 and make the grade air tight. The crack out guys would do a lot less of the fees were a lot more to start.
But if you keep the guarantee for only 2 years, then in a decade you can charge 5 x $125 or $625. PCGS could do this in the name of weeding out coins that turn in the holder. Realistically, PCGS is like an insurance policy. You don't pay your life or auto insurance once and then get a free pass forever. The original model was completely flawed.
Guaranteeing the grade for only 2 years is interesting. How long does it take for putty or other doctoring to show up?
@OriginalDan said:
Isn’t gradeflation like Pandora’s box. How can PCGS Stop it without hurting the bottom line?
Develop a new 100 point scale and disavow the old scale all together. Adding expiration dates to the guarantee would also provide a constant stream of revenue.
"disavow" the old scale? Well, okay. How about we tweak it a bit and put that good idea you have of an expiration date on the 1 to 70 scale. Then move forward with the 58 to 100 (as I have heard is the change) and put expiration dates on those coins. This way the services can see what the screwed up or charge a nominal fee for a "new re holder" with the new scale.
Perhaps we could all win.
The new scale would effectively confuse the previous standards so that most would eventually acquiesce and resubmit. The cynical part of me wonders whether that is what is going on with the recent periods of loosening and tightening (not directed at any one specific TPG). The new process would work something like this: (1) PCGS grades a coin using a permanent standard, and (2) the guarantee expires say after 2-5 years. It would keep a constant supply of submissions.
@specialist said:
They need young blood. The class of 59 is fading after not making the ship right. Time for the younger people in this hobby to shape the future.
As I said in a Hot Topics most baby dealers want instant gratification and profits-slight problem here.
I think PCGS needs to raise its prices-$125.00 to grade a $250,000.00 coin? Really? Make the fee $500.00 and make the grade air tight. The crack out guys would do a lot less of the fees were a lot more to start.
But if you keep the guarantee for only 2 years, then in a decade you can charge 5 x $125 or $625. PCGS could do this in the name of weeding out coins that turn in the holder. Realistically, PCGS is like an insurance policy. You don't pay your life or auto insurance once and then get a free pass forever. The original model was completely flawed.
Guaranteeing the grade for only 2 years is interesting. How long does it take for putty or other doctoring to show up?
I don't have a specific answer for you on the latter, but I am sure that it varies depending on environmental/storage conditions. If I was in charge of the TPGSs, I would make submitters sign a release allowing me to rinse all of the gold and silver coins in acetone prior to encapsulation. It would take care of PVC, putty, and many other organic surface contaminants.
@OriginalDan said:
Isn’t gradeflation like Pandora’s box. How can PCGS Stop it without hurting the bottom line?
Develop a new 100 point scale and disavow the old scale all together. Adding expiration dates to the guarantee would also provide a constant stream of revenue.
"disavow" the old scale? Well, okay. How about we tweak it a bit and put that good idea you have of an expiration date on the 1 to 70 scale. Then move forward with the 58 to 100 (as I have heard is the change) and put expiration dates on those coins. This way the services can see what the screwed up or charge a nominal fee for a "new re holder" with the new scale.
Perhaps we could all win.
It is my understanding that the only thing that would change is the coins that make the "Mint State" grade. AU58 and below that grade point would stay the same. So, we would have the same up to AU58 and then, 60 61, 61 etc ......75, 76 etc up to 100. i don't like the idea one bit and i don't want to spend more money on any more opinions. So, how do I win in this? How is it good for me? How does 100 points provide me with a service.
Also, WHAT'S FUNNY?
The lower pop of collectors, sliding market values is like gravity.
It takes big money to be a dealer but the business has to overcome the gravity above in order achieve escape velocity. My take: Learn how make money in stock market.
It’s too late to go to a 100 point system which would be adding its own problems and confusion. It would be an insane move that would wreck an already weak market.
Yes I have seen the new breed of vest pocket traders. One came up to my table looking to pick off my best material (for retail only). He had the gall to tell me he only paid below bid (to resale to other dealers). I laughed and told him “go find one.”
The numismatic market is not just US classic coins nor the domain of one dealer’s blog.
Have major players been informed the CDN they will need to double their output lol. Oh don’t forget CW and NN let alone BNR. More likely column titled MS65 old gen MS xx new gen.
And when will the ANA enact the new standard? Do TPG’s even favor or take seriously.
A conversion table would be needed. New gen sys vs old.
Once this is announced there wb a big blowout of old gen material which is about to be devalued and shift completely out of numismatics or into another numismatic area altogether like bullion. For many it could mean going from 200 old system slabs to just 60 new system slabs plus overall investment reduction (bad for market as money goes to debt payoff, stocks, other areas) a sort of roster housecleaning. Once people get burned they don’t come back.
But players will adapt. Like when Rockstar stopped new dlc on PS3 platform and just performed new content downloads on new gen PS4 (more comp power) for gtao. I switched to PS4 so could enjoy additional content - new vehicles, weapons, war toys, yacht, and properties.
Well, this thread certainly wandered around a bit.... not sure what the OP link has to do with a 100 point grading scale....or management changes....I thought PCGS already stated that the 100 point system would not be adopted....OK...maybe this is a random thought thread and I missed it... Cheers, RickO
@ricko said:
Well, this thread certainly wandered around a bit.... not sure what the OP link has to do with a 100 point grading scale....or management changes....I thought PCGS already stated that the 100 point system would not be adopted....OK...maybe this is a random thought thread and I missed it... Cheers, RickO
That was the old management. New management may think differently.
Comments
"However so far the rumors we have heard are they might be picking a fox to watch the hen house. "
Anybody care to speculate as to who that "fox" may be?
In the end, I'm sure PCGS will pick the right person.
Isn’t gradeflation like Pandora’s box. How can PCGS Stop it without hurting the bottom line?
TPGs can create GRADE:
Grade
Review by
A
Designated
Evaluator
For a fee, of course.
Hey, @specialist can post again (and we can all see it).
Develop a new 100 point scale and disavow the old scale all together. Adding expiration dates to the guarantee would also provide a constant stream of revenue.
Thanks for the warning.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
"In the end, I'm sure PCGS will pick the right person."
I wonder if Bill Jones would be interested and considered. I think Bill was the CEO of an insurance company so he has business experience.
Excellent market report this week...I always look forward to reading them on Saturday or Sunday mornings...thanks for making the time to do this!!
"disavow" the old scale? Well, okay. How about we tweak it a bit and put that good idea you have of an expiration date on the 1 to 70 scale. Then move forward with the 58 to 100 (as I have heard is the change) and put expiration dates on those coins. This way the services can see what the screwed up or charge a nominal fee for a "new re holder" with the new scale.
Perhaps we could all win.
I don’t think the expense / disaster getting all my coins regraded bc somebody wants to go to a 100 PT grading system is a win. What an absudity. Frankly with the market as weak as it is such a move would kill / bankrupt the weak market not to mention the IT mess created.
It may happen one day 50 yrs off with a self grading Holder you can get for two bucks.
Many of the comments in this thread are darkly amusing. Just let the business professionals do their jobs. It's what they are paid to do.
They need young blood. The class of 59 is fading after not making the ship right. Time for the younger people in this hobby to shape the future.
As I said in a Hot Topics most baby dealers want instant gratification and profits-slight problem here.
I think PCGS needs to raise its prices-$125.00 to grade a $250,000.00 coin? Really? Make the fee $500.00 and make the grade air tight. The crack out guys would do a lot less of the fees were a lot more to start.
They have young blood, could use more.
A lot of people, both dealers and collectors are HIGHLY against young people working for TPG's because they don't want to spend money on "inexperienced" employees looking at their coins and want people with decades of experience. It's a shame really.
But if you keep the guarantee for only 2 years, then in a decade you can charge 5 x $125 or $625. PCGS could do this in the name of weeding out coins that turn in the holder. Realistically, PCGS is like an insurance policy. You don't pay your life or auto insurance once and then get a free pass forever. The original model was completely flawed.
Guaranteeing the grade for only 2 years is interesting. How long does it take for putty or other doctoring to show up?
The new scale would effectively confuse the previous standards so that most would eventually acquiesce and resubmit. The cynical part of me wonders whether that is what is going on with the recent periods of loosening and tightening (not directed at any one specific TPG). The new process would work something like this: (1) PCGS grades a coin using a permanent standard, and (2) the guarantee expires say after 2-5 years. It would keep a constant supply of submissions.
I don't have a specific answer for you on the latter, but I am sure that it varies depending on environmental/storage conditions. If I was in charge of the TPGSs, I would make submitters sign a release allowing me to rinse all of the gold and silver coins in acetone prior to encapsulation. It would take care of PVC, putty, and many other organic surface contaminants.
This whole thing is getting down right ridiculous...
It is my understanding that the only thing that would change is the coins that make the "Mint State" grade. AU58 and below that grade point would stay the same. So, we would have the same up to AU58 and then, 60 61, 61 etc ......75, 76 etc up to 100.
i don't like the idea one bit and i don't want to spend more money on any more opinions. So, how do I win in this? How is it good for me? How does 100 points provide me with a service.
Also, WHAT'S FUNNY?
Great post @FadeToBlack
The lower pop of collectors, sliding market values is like gravity.
It takes big money to be a dealer but the business has to overcome the gravity above in order achieve escape velocity. My take: Learn how make money in stock market.
It’s too late to go to a 100 point system which would be adding its own problems and confusion. It would be an insane move that would wreck an already weak market.
Yes I have seen the new breed of vest pocket traders. One came up to my table looking to pick off my best material (for retail only). He had the gall to tell me he only paid below bid (to resale to other dealers). I laughed and told him “go find one.”
The numismatic market is not just US classic coins nor the domain of one dealer’s blog.
Have major players been informed the CDN they will need to double their output lol. Oh don’t forget CW and NN let alone BNR. More likely column titled MS65 old gen MS xx new gen.
And when will the ANA enact the new standard? Do TPG’s even favor or take seriously.
A conversion table would be needed. New gen sys vs old.
Once this is announced there wb a big blowout of old gen material which is about to be devalued and shift completely out of numismatics or into another numismatic area altogether like bullion. For many it could mean going from 200 old system slabs to just 60 new system slabs plus overall investment reduction (bad for market as money goes to debt payoff, stocks, other areas) a sort of roster housecleaning. Once people get burned they don’t come back.
But players will adapt. Like when Rockstar stopped new dlc on PS3 platform and just performed new content downloads on new gen PS4 (more comp power) for gtao. I switched to PS4 so could enjoy additional content - new vehicles, weapons, war toys, yacht, and properties.
Well, this thread certainly wandered around a bit.... not sure what the OP link has to do with a 100 point grading scale....or management changes....I thought PCGS already stated that the 100 point system would not be adopted....OK...maybe this is a random thought thread and I missed it...
Cheers, RickO
That was the old management. New management may think differently.
Hmmmm... Interesting ... I will not go into the thought paths that comment leads me down...
Cheers, RickO