Distribution of large cents - 1833
RogerB
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In the early United States there was no efficient national distribution system for coins. This was particularly a problem for copper half cents and cents, so the Mint hired agents to distribute copper coins. Agents received a commission averaging five percent to place the coins at par. This table is an example of copper coin distribution by William Findlay (Treasurer of the Mint) from January through June 1833.
The table also shows the quantity of coins in standard casks from which it is possible to estimate the number of pieces in various large cent hoards.
Occasionally agents were caught selling the coins for below par. Common punishment was a minor reprimand.
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Comments
Thank you.
Looks like Findley liked to travel. I wonder if it was for the purpose of the distribution or he had another occupation and the distribution was a side business.
Philly, DC, Ohio, Boston, and Detroit to name a few.
Thanks @RogerB.
In 1816 the Mint Treasurer was appointed by the Treasury Department to distribute copper
coins at a fee of, I think, 2 percent. In 1833 William Findlay was the Mint Treasurer and the
sheet posted by RogerB is a record of his distribution work for the first six months of 1833.
With minor exceptions copper coins were distributed at par, the government paying for
transportation. Findlay had contracts with various firms for the distributions. The copper
coins had to be paid for in specie or notes of the Bank of the United States.
This system of distribution underwent a change in the late 1830s when Crocker Brothers, who
furnished cent planchets to the Mint, distributed the copper coins in the New England area.
Reading documents such as this, and others that Roger posts, is an intriguing view of how things have changed and the incredible contrast between modern times and how it was a mere 200 years ago...Imagine the future, 200 years from now....I dare say, not even the most imaginative among us, can foretell what that might look like. Personally, I do not fear dying... However, I have this unlimited curiosity and it upsets me that I will miss what is yet to come. Cheers, RickO
Denga - Thanks for the corrections!
Findley did not personally deliver the coins. They were sent prepaid via express companies.
Ah, I missed that, “...Agents hired...”
@ricko I agree the future will bring great changes and in 200 years... I have only my imagination on what will occur. Hope it is all for the good.
Denga,
Have you published any articles on this subject?
What was a typical profit the Mint made then? The copper value probably had to be 80 cents on the dollar or so for the Mint to break even considering production and commission costs.
Roger,
Cool stuff. The number of cents in a keg changed rather radically over the years. In the 90's, I found several letters in Entry 19, Letters Sent by the Treasurer of the Mint, 1816 - 1848 and published some of those in PW:
Letter to John White, Esq., Collector of the Internal Revenue, Philadelphia, June 19, 1816: “I have received you note of the 18th requesting of Cents …I shall be happy to furnish you with one cask containing 180 Dollars.”
Letter to Samuel Yale, Esq., Postmaster, Troy, NY, Sept. 13, 1816: “…two casks of cents each containing $150 will be however at any time delivered to your order…”
And perhaps the most revealing letter I found on the subject, this one to Butler & Berry(?), New York, Nov. 17, 1821: “Any further orders for cents will be promptly attended to, but as the casks in which the cents are packed generally contain 150, 160, 170, 180, & 190 Dollars, if your orders were extended to either of these sums it would save us much trouble.”
So, thru at least 1821, a "standard keg" of cents was 150, 160, 170, 180, or 190 dollars. From what you found, they changed to 120 to 130 by the 1830's.
However, that apparently changed again by the 1850's as Entry 55, Order Books for Coins, shows the kegs being standard at $100 per.
The most amusing letter I found was from the postmaster in NY concerning $80 in half cents. He was none too pleased at having received half cents and wanted to return them!
No articles specifically dealing with distribution but some of the articles on copper coinage
done for Coin World in the 1970s had details on the distribution of coins for a given year,
such as 1801 in the issue of December 1, 1976.
Just out of curiosity I calculated the weight of $100 in large cents at 240 pounds, excluding the weight of the cask. Other values would be proportionately heavier.
So for the largest quantity, $190, the cask’s (or keg’s) weight is about:
[Using specs of 1833 large cent from Coinfacts]
10.89 g/coin x 19,000 coin/cask = 206,910 g/cask
206,910 g/cask = 206.91 kg/cask = ~446.16 lbs/cask
I would attempt to calculate volume but this time of day is not conducive to further calculations.
Now what did these casks/kegs look like and their composition? My mind is picturing a TV themed “treasure” chest/boxes.
Then I start thinking about the mode of transporation, which is probably the answer to the ‘why’ of the statement, “...if your orders were extended to either of these sums it would save us much trouble.”
I suspect they were simply the typical oak & iron hoop kegs. The quantities of coins packaged correlates to the quantities of kegs and planchets received from Boulton, so I suspect the mint reused the planchet kegs.
That does make economical sense (no pun intended).
Yeah. Like, what else were they gonna do with them anyway? Become a used keg dealer?
Good sturdy shipping kegs were like the steel containers of today, getting used over and over until they fell apart. It is quite possible that Boulton used different sized used kegs and simply kept track of the weight of the total shipment of the product inside them.
Looks like many stops in the northeast and midwest... only three in the south. Richmond, New Orleans , and Fayetteville.
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As noted above, loose copper coins were commonly shipped in barrel kegs. Most kegs were made specifically for their first use and then reused as appropriate. When shipping gold bars overseas, Several New York banks had their own small kegs made specifically for each shipment. Bars came from the NYAO to the bank, were packed tightly in small kegs, then sent to the port for eventual delivery in Europe.
This photo, taken in the alley next to J.P. Morgan & Co. shows kegs of $40,000 in gold bars being loaded on a wagon. This shows the relative size of gold kegs. The fellow in the straw hat is a private security guard. [Another view is in the book From Mine to Mint.]
$100 to Mr. Bidwell in Harford Connecticut. Perhaps a few made their way to this establishment:
https://thebidwelltavern.com/
See the new thread "Distributing copper coins at 7% below face value" for an interesting letter regarding distribution below face value.
I like how cash is 4 letters but they’ve used ditto to make things go quicker
Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.
Here are the numbers taken from Crocker Bros. invoice for planchets dated December 31,1834:
51 casks of copper planchets, total planchet weight of 20,000 lbs.
Mint was charged $5,600 for metal, delivered, or $0.28 per pound.
$1.00 in cents weighed slightly over 2.4 lbs so it took $0.672 value of copper to make $1.00 in coins.
Gross Mint profit was $0.328 per $1.00 (net was probably closer to $0.27/$1.00).
At the time, fabricated sheet copper was about $0.25 per lb. and bars were approximately $0.14 per lb. but varied widely depending on source.