Never Sent to CAC
rhedden
Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
The idea in this thread is to post a PCGS-certified coin that has never been sent to CAC, yet you think it's a good candidate for a sticker.
As a non-member of CAC, I have never submitted anything, but I have a lot of material that might get a bean. I know many of them haven't been tried because I submitted the raw coins to PCGS myself, or else I bought them holdered before CAC existed. Let's see some of yours!
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Comments
The only question on that one is green or gold!
That's about the prettiest 45 I have ever seen.
I have not submitted to CAC.... since I do not sell coins, the associated premium that they would garner is not important. I do, however, respect their business and if/when I consider a purchase of significance, their approval would be desirable. Cheers, RickO
I do no sell either so I have never submitted to CAC.
will be going on my next sub.
23P,
Oh hell yes!
That is a fantastic example of a 45, you might get a double gold actually.
In order to improve my grading skills I have recently been buying and selling more modestly priced coins and submitting them to CAC...in an attempt to learn what stickers and what doesn't...
For learning purposes, these two WERE SUBMITTED...the 72-S DID NOT PASS...but the 73-S DID PASS...
I only buy original coins with good eye appeal...so in theory all my coins are candidates to pass at CAC...but my success rate is probably only about 50%...and I'm sorry but I don't believe anyone who says their success rate is much higher...
Three nice looking coins posted but I wouldn't bet the house on any of them getting a sticker...
When I'm buying a coin over the ~10k price range, that's not beaned, I'll ask the seller if they have sent the particular coin into CAC or not. I trust most of the dealers I trade with to tell me the truth. If I don't know the dealer, I'll still ask but I take their answer with a "gain of salt". I realize that doesn't mean someone else didn't send it in before the current dealer got it, but if I find they ever lie to me, we're done!
And yes, I have had them tell me on some coins that they had sent it in and it didn't bean. Of course the price is usually reflective of that.
thats a way nice xf 45, i like
That should gold bean!
BHNC #203
Not to boast, but I'm about 90% on CAC submissions with the 10% being coins I believed might not make it anyway (but I had to try!). I've sent in about 50 coins and received about 10 gold stickers. The only advice I can give is that the highest priority of CAC seems to be originality. I say this because some of the coins I sent in that didn't make it were technically undergraded by 1-2 grades, but had been dipped on conserved at some point. I deal primarily in early gold so the pieces have to be solid for the grade and "crusty". Tough to find, but hard to miss when you see it. CAC also doesn't seem to like the modern 61-62 coins. They prefer them in AU58. This can be seen with the limited CAC population in 60-62 grades. I have seen some outliers in my niche that I do not believe deserved stickers. These coins spent an above average amount of time on the market, as you would expect.
This is just my experience/opinions and my primary submissions are early gold, commems, and type.
P.S.....I am very reluctant to believe anyone who says they haven't submitted a coin to CAC in the current retail environment (Applying to Dealers). There is just too much upside to forgo the minimal fee that CAC charges, especially on $5k and up coins. $5K and down I think the "sent" rate decreases exponentially as the financial return diminishes.
To tie into my niche: AU55 Draped Bust $5s in AU55 typically go for 13K with CAC and 10K without. Any dealer telling me they didn't sent it would be unwise not to expend $50 (including shipping) for an easy $3k profit and increased liquidity. The only truthful dealers I have found in this case have been small time local dealers that don't send to CAC or coins that are extremely fresh to the market and the dealer hasn't sent them yet. I do not know any large dealers that don't send most of their coins to CAC and most will not market any fresh coins until they have been sent and received from CAC.
Clarification is needed here. When I say that I have not submitted to CAC, I am excluding consignment coins of mine that were submitted by dealer friends prior to sale. Sorry for not explaining myself well in the original post. My personal collection has had zero items submitted over the years, unless I bought the coin from someone else who tried it. I'm not selling them, so why submit?
RE:
@jonruns said
"but my success rate is probably only about 50%...and I'm sorry but I don't believe anyone who says their success rate is much higher..."
Are you serious? My success rate was 90+%, the vast majority of the submissions were 4 & 5 figure gold (my former collecting focus, all since sold). I recall others here sharing their good results, so I am confident that I am not alone here in handily exceeding your 50% hurdle. I will add that I utilized a trusted dealer (one of the best in the business) and all coins were seen in-hand prior to purchase by one of us.
Well I can think of two good reasons why submitting now may be a benefit. First you can spread out the cost rather than one big hit when you decide to sell a collection, postage costs are only going up. Second suppose that you suffer a health issue that renders you incapable of handling your affairs. If you have explicit instructions for your loved ones on how (as well as who to help them) and what should be submitted this may not be an issue. However I think it better not to burden my loved ones with extra steps at a time like that.
Back to your original post; this 1919 has never been sent in yet (I can and have submitted coins to CAC myself) partly because it would only be worth it financially if I received a gold bean.
And this 1914-D also has not been sent because I don't think it would receive a bean due to the carbon spot on the obv.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I recently asked. Guy I deal with, too. However.....his answer.....
"....I.... did not." had just too much wiggle in it.
Coins are fun.
Yes I am serious...I'd love to hear what the trusted dealers have to say about the 90+% claims...
NONE of my coins in the last month have failed.
RE:
@Jonruns said:
I'd love to hear what the trusted dealers have to say about the 90+% claims.
Read away ... "93% and I’m Still Disappointed"
https://www.rcnh.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=153:the-rare-coin-enthusiast-october-2018&catid=15&Itemid=114
To piggyback on coinbuf:
Even if you are not selling, its nice to know where your coins fit in the market pricewise for future sales or financial planning going forward. If you send in 100 coins and 50% green and 25% gold, you have a betting finger on the pulse on what your collection is worth. The prices between no bean, bean, and gold bean range wildly. Even though I am not going to sell some of my core coins for some time, its nice to know where I stand if I ever need to sell or if I need a valuation for my current holdings.
Just my 2 cents...
None of the coins I own are worthy enough to be sent to CAC. IMO if a coin being submitted is not worth atleast 3 to 5 grand its a waste of time and money.
A very good dealer friend and I were talking about this exact thing last week and both agreed that a coin has to be worth atleast 3 to 5 grand to make the CAC sticker worth while.
Ken
How did you come up with that number? Many coins in the $200 range will sell for $15 extra with a CAC sticker. If you amortize shipping across a bunch of coins that’s all the spread you need. If you only give a coin a 50% chance at a bean, all you need is a $30 spread. That seems trivially small on even a coin worth $500 or more.
Obviously, the price difference between CAC and non-CAC coins is not entirely attributable to the sticker, but I would wager a decent amount of it is.
But your missing another part of the puzzle, even if you only break even on the cost of sending your lower value coins you very often gain liquidity by having a CAC bean. And that aspect has a value also.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I’m not sure how you came up with that figure but intuitively to me it seems that it would be much easier to sell a CAC coin and you should easily be able to recover the $14.50 CAC fee and probably much more. Would I send a $100 coin to CAC? No. But if I’m selling a $500 coin it’s going to CAC.
JMHO. If a coin is worth the cost of slabbing why not the cost of CAC?
CAC will only charge you if it passes (non dealers obviously). You only risk the shipping charges. For dealers the equation is different with all submissions being charged
of course
If you feel the coin won’t CAC why buy it? A “bargain “ today may very well be a problem in the future
As I stated just my opinion
To each his/her own
Is this dealer friend selling you coins? If so I might submit a few that he has sold you...
Something to remember is "what CAC truly means".
It isn't just about "meeting the grade". If a coin has a look that JA doesn't want to deal in, then it, to my understanding, may not CAC regardless of meeting the grade on the holder well enough.
For instance, a toned copper coin may have a grade and a RB or BN designation but JA doesn't like the toning (not because it may be AT but just because he doesn't like it on a coin). No CAC sticker.
May happen to other coins as well, but I know, from him telling me himself on a call, that coins could fail to sticker because he didn't like/wasn't a fan of the toning.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Not really worth it financially to submit this common Indian $10, but I think it’s very attractive for the assigned grade
I just sent 20 in - will share the results when received in early December.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
I have found that CAC'ing even $50 coins will bring you much more than the cost of the sticker when selling,,,,,, sometimes alot more.
This one seems awfully nice for an AU58 (I of course had to throw in a photo of the obverse with romantic dimmed lighting as well...). I imagine that CAC holds shipwreck coins to a different standard. I’m
quite the novice when it comes to grading, but could this potentially grade MS? Appreciate any thoughts. New to the forum and my wife isn’t exactly an eager ear when it comes to coin talk...
But to have so much POWER concentrated into one man! The horrors!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Wahoo, I think you're coin may have received the AU 58 grade because of the abrasion above the eyebrow and the apparent "rub" above Liberty in the headband. That ,if it were mine would go to CAC just because all other aspects of the coin exhibit no evidence of wear.
Welcome to the forum!!!
I have submitted coins to CAC that have a value of $50, a few even less. If I think a coin has been undergraded I'll often buy it just because it's just too nice for the assigned grade. Thus far I've received 5 gold beans, some on these low value coins.
For me it's a confirmation of my grading skills. I've missed a few too but upon further review I'll usually figure out why.
Thanks for the feedback and glad to be part of the forum! I’ve strongly considered sending it to CAC just to see if it’ll sticker. I certainly think it’s superior to a number of other SSCA AU58’s I’ve seen.
Question for those who send multiple coins with a fairly high combined value to CAC for review: which shipping/insurance options do you recommend to a non-dealer to keep costs down, e.g. registered mail vs. FedEx, etc. and private insurance (if even an option) vs. insurance coverage purchased from shipper? Thanks.
@Wahoo554
to the forums!
My YouTube Channel
@Wahoo554 welcome aboard, do you have the ability to submit to CAC? It is not open to all collectors mostly dealers.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Well, at least he was honest.
What he didn't say was the tell, as of course you know!
Good question. It appears that I don’t. Funny, when I reviewed the CAC website a couple months ago I was left with the impression that average collectors could submit. It appears I either misread or the policy has changed. Looks like my only practical option at present would be to submit through a local dealer.
Just a little question. We had the advent of the TPGs, + grades, the star grades, the proof like, semi's, and now CAC. What should we expect in the hear future? What ever it is I am sure it will cost the collector additional bucks.
Sent in hundreds to PCGS. None to CAC. That's because they're not coins Legend wants. Why waste another dime ? That's my thinking. Added value or brownie points ?
I don't need JA to tell me they're not good enough.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Wow! I'd take that coin around and compare it to every raw AU Bust Half with original surfaces (if they still exist) and tell the seller... it's only xf45... see! ;-)
Seriously though, that is one very nice coin. Nicely done!
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Please don't misread my first message. I love Legends' coins and JA 's eyes. But I like a lot of people's eyes. And what 3 people and a finalizer may have missed opened the door for the kings of the hobby to further capitalize on the services of other's.
That's the best part of the biz. And the worst part ....for the hobby of common folk.
Then there are other TPGs. But whatever. No disrespect intended.
A perfect storm paid off.
Sent this one in. Graded MS 6?
Would a sticker help it sell ? ...or a price guide ? Or is it only worth melt ? That's how I bought it from another dealer ( who was going to dip it ).
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
What > @TwoSides2aCoin said:
What a beautiful coin. Guessing at least a 66. Nice purchase. And also thanks for not dipping it!!!!!!!
JMHO. Would CAC
It's been mentioned that CAC prefers the crusty, original look on business strikes. What about color on proofs vs. blast white proofs? Personally, I don't like "crust" on my proofs they way it comes on XF-AU business strikes, so hopefully, CAC is not looking for splotchy, brown toning on the proofs too.
Here is a PCGS PR64 Seated quarter that I submitted raw (old blue holder) that has never been sent to CAC because it's not for sale. It has a little rub (toning break) on the breast due to the album slides from a Library of Coins album, so perhaps it will not get a bean? Otherwise, it has very pretty color throughout.
If CAC is ever hard up for cash, they can just start charging $5k/year for access to their database.
It's SIX THOUSAND......er.... oops.
Thank you for all the nice comments about my 1825. It does stand out, and whenever I consider buying any silver coinage, especially feeding my bust half addiction, I look back to this coin to remind me what to strive for. I don't have direct CAC submission privileges, and have recently applied for this, but until then, I'll look for a dealer in my area.