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Iook what I snatched off eBay, a PCGS xf 45 1804 spiked chin half cent 😂😂😂😂😂
ShipwreckCoinHunter
Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭✭✭
It is still 2 weeks till my Birthday but I got this half cent before anyone else bought it 😂😂😂
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Tell me what you think 🤔
Looks nice... was it a good deal as well?? Cheers, RickO
@Ricko it was a great deal, I got it for $480 !!! PCGS pices the coin at $600 !!
Ps. I also used my sources such as: the red book, past auction on PCGS, and other sources to find a coin like this. I just use the price guide as a way to show I got a good deal
Well then... Double congratulations....
Cheers, RickO
Sorry to say I don’t like the coin. It has some spotting and some scratches on the face and hair. The reverse looks great, though.
Edited with new information. Apparently the right obverse is normal for the variety!
@david3142 I guess that makes sense, I haven’t received it in the Mail yet, It will probably look mutch better in person than in the photos. I do see sum scratches on the Jaw and the hare and a bit in the background but I also seee there is sum on the holder
In the future it may help to look at sold auctions instead of the PCGS price guide to get a better idea of value.
You should not blindly be using the PCGS price guide (or any price guide). Use auction records in CoinFacts. There you will see that the last one sold for $360. There is a wide range over the past few sales. Compare each coin and see why some sold for a premium and some sold for a discount.
@david3142 I didn’t just look at the PCGS price guide, I also looked at the red book, at PCGS past auctions and others sources. I have done you research. Also it is not a plane 4, or anything els it is a spiked chin variety, it is one of the more scarcer varsity’s. 👍
@MorganMan94 I looked at many sources such as the red book, past auction on PCGS and other sources I have bean looking for a coin like this for over a month
The 'scratches' are visible on all Spiked Chin 1804's. I still wonder what caused them.
@cmerlo probably bag marks
I agree with @FadeToBlack about patience. There are very few coins I’ve added over the past 10 years where I haven’t been looking for over a month — in most cases it’s years.
Fascinating! Thank you for educating me. @markelman1125 — Bag marks wouldn’t be consistent across all coins of the same variety. Also, I’m not sure that 1804 cents would have even been stored in bags.
@FadeToBlack and @david3142 I am only 16 years old and I am not at the level of collecting as @senator32. Collectors that have bean collection coin for decades have probably collected many coins and traded for better coins. I have bean collecting U.S. coins for Just over 2 years. For me, not so advanced as @Senator32, looking for a coin for just over a month is a good time to find a nice coin. I am not looking for a ultra rare coin or an coin that is worth over $20,000. I post to share and to have my coin to be criticized, not to be compared to other collectors.
@markelman1125 Nice coin. Collect what you enjoy. It is good to see you, YN, collecting AND doing research.
You can see other examples on CoinFacts. They also specify them as die markers for the variety.
Help me understand something, a $380 win plus shipping is like $400, pcgs price guide says $600 but we know that is retail and when we go to sell it dealers quote us collectors grey sheet or auction prices which are ALWYS less than pcgs RETAIL price guide. So why is it such a great deal? BTW I like the variety, just trying to understand the game.
Not $380, $480.
Oh chit, so my point is even stronger, why then all the fanfare, what am I missing and what do we collectors need to remember when it comes to selling?
Happy birthday a couple weeks early! And thanks for sharing your purchase. Are you working on a set of any kind or just collecting what appeals to you?
At 16 years old time is on your side. Always be patient. Lots of us do not have decades. You do.
Very nice.....I love that coin and variety! Congrats!
Pricing is something that takes a ton of experience to be comfortable with. It's difficult enough with really common coins like an 1881-S Morgan, but gets more nuanced with early copper, early US type, and such. Personally, I basically ignore the Redbook when it comes to pricing. The PCGS Price Guide is better, but depending on the series is still often inflated compared to real-world sales.
Here's the trick. Not all 1804 Spiked Chin coins in PCGS XF45 plastic are the same. Some are really nice for the grade and some.... not as much. Not everyone grades early copper to the same standards. The EAC (Early American Copper) folks use an entirely different approach than the bigger TPGs.
PCGS uses four characteristics to grade uncirculated coins but grades circulated coins primarily on wear (85%) and eye appeal (15%). EAC guys will start with remaining detail (wear), but deduct for eye appeal, color, spots, rim bumps, scratches, planchet porosity, etc.
If I was going to determine an appropriate price for the coin shown by the OP, I'd start with CoinFacts. There, we see the last 5 in PCGS holders have sold for $360 (Ebay, 9/18), $384 (Heritage Auctions 9/17), $400 (Heritage Auctions 3/17), $646 (Heritage 9/16), and $400 (Stacks Bowers 9/16). The average here is $438. I then look at the data for outliers. Here, the coin for $646 sold for an unusually high price in a major auction. I looked up the auction and the coin to me is nothing particularly special (there is a spot in the right obverse field). Maybe someone smart looked at it at the auction and thought that it would have a chance to upgrade to an AU50 (which have been selling around $750-800). Maybe two people got in a bidding war. Nobody knows.
If you throw out the single $646 outlier, the average price for the 4 coins is $386, which seems to be the going rate for non-CAC, PCGS XF45 Spike Chin 1804 cents in average condition. This is 64% of the Price Guide value of $600. Now we need to look at our potential purchase. Is it as nice as the others, nicer, or not quite as nice? This is up to you to decide.
I also look at the prices and coins for those in XF40 and AU50. Once you consider all of this, you should have a pretty good idea of what the appropriate price "should be". For the record, I really like the XF40 that sold in the Goldberg auction in 2/18. it sold for $499, but it's a really pretty coin for an XF40. An AU50 sold in Jan 2017 for $999. Why so much? Well, it's a nice-looking coin but it's also in a rattler holder, and coins from this grading era are often perceived as conservatively graded.
For the OP's coin, I personally love the reverse but find the big spots in "LIBERTY" at the hair bun, and the numerous black fly specks on the obverse to be distracting. Some people don't mind these so much. Sometimes they look much worse in photos than in-hand. That's up to you to decide. This coin has some hits on the chin, hair, and left obverse field which aren't so horrible for an XF45, but you can probably find coins without these.
In summary, the coin is 200+ years old, has seen a bit of front-line service, is still in decent condition, and is a coin that many would dream of owning. Three professional graders from our host evaluated it and determined it to be problem-free and worthy of an XF45 grade. It was purchased by a YN who will likely enjoy it for many years to come. Any problem with any of this? Not in my book. Maybe a little better coin could have been found or maybe this coin could have been acquired a slightly lower price. No biggie. We all learn as we go.
Well said BryceM.
It’s great to see an enthusiastic YN and we want to encourage you while also helping you learn. Take your time, particularly if the dollar amount is significant to you. And $480 seems like a lot for a 16-year old. Even when I was in college I did psych studies to earn an extra $8 to spend on coins. That was usually good for 5-6 BU Roosies.
And @BryceM, that is a fantastic post - exactly the way it makes sense to use auction records as a guide.
@David3142 I have a job at an arts and crafts store so I am able to fund my collection. 👍 It is a passion of mine. I just save up for cool coins and even me a 16 year old it’s a great hobby to have. And also in 2 weeks it’s my B day so this coin is an early present for myself and is my most expensive
Love old copper! I’m happy for you that you have found a coin to your liking!
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
Slow down and check prices more carefully. The spiked chin variety isn't rare and the obverse of that piece is so-so at best for the grade. The reverse is OK for the grade but nothing more. I personally would have passed on that coin unless offered at a big discount.
I would advise you to read and consider all of the comments (as I have done) since they will help you learn as you move forward.
As for your purchase, if you like it, think it was attractively priced, and are excited to own it, I would say it was a great purchase. There are far worse ways to spend $480, and to be looking in this range at your age is pretty impressive.
First of all great buy! I hope it brings you joy and at 16 Really Congradulations!!! I am proud of what you did. I work in the oil field all my life since 1982 in Prudhoe Bay Alaska. Still working now in a Refinery. I collect coins like you now, back then it was drinking and chasing women, bar hoping! Keep COLLECTING and don't follow my early years. Above ALL STAY SAFE. It's a dangerous world. Karate is a good way to go. Shitokan Shorinryu keeps you strong, young ( you dont have that problem ) Again very proud of you! Congradulations.
reverse looks nice. I don't like the dark spots on the obverse. I really do hate spots on coins, especially on copper
Congrats and keep collecting.
Bryce gave some solid advice as well.
Don't let anyone burst your bubble. Enjoy your new coin, it's lovely and PCGS graded. Not a counterfeit and not a problem coin. Keep in mind it is over 200 years old. You'll likely have this for many years and price is just a fleeting issue, if any.
I like,
bob
Welcome to the forum, and please listen to the recommendations of those who were once your age. Utilize all auction sold information available, as that is the true indication of a coin's worth(only an indication) The nicer a coin looks, regardless of grade is usually the determining factor, but only usually. If you are collecting a special series of coins then please buy a good book. Many here can recommend the correct books for your interest. Many books are available free online. Then study the variations and what varieties there are and their strike characteristics. It will not take you long to have an educated opinion to utilize as your guide. Congrats on your purchase. As long as you are satisfied with it, that is what matters. There will always be coins you paid too much for or got a great deal, just enjoy the hobby.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Reverse isn't bad... The obverse is why this was sold and will always sell well under price guide value.
Here is the auction:
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Here is the last one sold on eBay, before his, and the recent auction prices: If the kid is happy, more power to him! If he wants to learn about buying at better prices, that is also possible!
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Nice variety and it represents my draped bust half cent as well in my type set.
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Great looking classic! Nice pick
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Ow I will only open up the coin on my B day on the 25th so I will show you guys the coin on November 25th
If we take a look at the registry forum Lincoln Cent man completed a 15 year journey for a beautiful 1923 S Toned Lincoln.
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Wabbit2313 Good post I did not realize that you could also look at past Ebay results. Usually I would go on Ebay and type in the coin and then under advance hit the completed option and it lists all completed coins that I wanted to compare prices. Thanks
Great coin for a 16 year old. Keep looking and learning. Welcome to the forum. Best wishes
That is a cool variety to pick up! I have 2, maybe 3 of them around. One is a 45 also. What @BryceM said was fantastic, can't add much more to that, except a Spiked Chin!
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Nice pick up the 1804 spiked chin is a cool coin. The scratch on the neck and cheek do not bother me as it just adds character to this variety. The spots are a little distracting.
I don't think one should just look at what the price range of pieces sold tends to be. One absolutely needs to look at the coins that go with those prices, especially for early copper. Choice surfaces will always sell for a premium with early copper. Average surfaces with marks or spots or verdigris or other unsightly issues will typically sell for average prices. Want an average coin, pay average prices. Want a coin that is a keeper and a prize? Pay well above average. Didn't Rick Snow write about that for pricing of IHC? Same concept.
I love spiked chin 1/2 cents! One of those coins that I couldn't believe the first time I saw one in person.