Gold Rush / Territorial Counterstamps

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Zoins
Zoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited November 9, 2018 2:34AM in U.S. Coin Forum

What are the most famous Gold Rush / Territorial counterstamps?

I've always liked the J.L. (John Lozier) Polhemus counterstamp due to the design which includes a beaker, letters with a curved design and the location in California. There's a nice biography on his FindAGrave profile:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/64924219/john-l.-polhemus

Today, I ran across this 1857-S double eagle which not only has the great counterstamp but has a great denomination as well. How many Polhemus gold coins are known?

Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
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  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I cannot answer your question, however, that is a special gold coin...Definitely either spent time as a pocket piece or has seen considerable commerce....Certainly a unique stamp... It looks as if it was one full stamp and not done piecemeal ...Cheers, RickO

  • Gluggo
    Gluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Very interesting reads. That druggist had a very interesting life. So very different from today. I hope one day to stumble on one of his counter stamp silver coin. I will have to look him up in my counter stamp book. I am sure he is listed. Thank you for the post.

  • Zoins
    Zoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2018 7:11AM
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    @Gluggo said:
    Very interesting reads. That druggist had a very interesting life. So very different from today. I hope one day to stumble on one of his counter stamp silver coin. I will have to look him up in my counter stamp book. I am sure he is listed. Thank you for the post.

    Agree his life was very interesting. It's great to read about how lives were led back then.

    This one is listed as Brunk P-563. Both PCGS and ATS slab Brunk listed counterstamps. A number of Brunk listed pieces slabbed by PCGS have been posted in this thread:

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/994726/what-is-the-lowest-pcgs-graded-top-pop-1-0-coin/#latest

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,753 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Very neat coin. How much does a counterstamp such as this enhance or diminish the value of the host coin?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • Smudge
    Smudge Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @PerryHall said:
    Very neat coin. How much does a counterstamp such as this enhance or diminish the value of the host coin?

    +1

  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,862 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @PerryHall said:
    Very neat coin. How much does a counterstamp such as this enhance or diminish the value of the host coin?

    I've seen one or two otherwise common silver coins with this counterstamp sell on ebay and it definitely increased the value by a couple or a few hundred dollars. Not sure of the premium on gold.

  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,753 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @JBK said:

    @PerryHall said:
    Very neat coin. How much does a counterstamp such as this enhance or diminish the value of the host coin?

    I've seen one or two otherwise common silver coins with this counterstamp sell on ebay and it definitely increased the value by a couple or a few hundred dollars. Not sure of the premium on gold.

    I imagine the premium drops as the value of the host coin increases.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • tyler267
    tyler267 Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭✭
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    @PerryHall said:

    @JBK said:

    @PerryHall said:
    Very neat coin. How much does a counterstamp such as this enhance or diminish the value of the host coin?

    I've seen one or two otherwise common silver coins with this counterstamp sell on ebay and it definitely increased the value by a couple or a few hundred dollars. Not sure of the premium on gold.

    I imagine the premium drops as the value of the host coin increases.

    Probably but I would pay a premium for the gold counterstamp

  • Regulated
    Regulated Posts: 2,994 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    That's a neat Polhemus - they're a lot more common on silver minors - I have a 55-S quarter somewhere. W.W. Light - the assayer who worked for J.S. Ormsby also counterstamped coins when he was a dentist in Sacramento. They're a bit harder to locate than Polhemus, but I've seen more on gold, proportionately speaking.

    There is also a unique large cent counterstamp from San Francisco photographer Silas Selleck. It was made using the stamp that he used on the metal frames for his dagguerotypes, IIRC.


    What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
  • Zoins
    Zoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    One thing I like about this piece is that I feel the counterstamp is placed nicely and fits in its location. The silver minors I've seen don't tend to have as nice of a placement.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,753 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I love the die crack and the original toning on that coin. A real piece of gold rush history. That counterstamp is the icing on the cake. <3B)

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,168 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Zoins said:
    Here's a H.H. PIERSON / W.W. Light that I just ran across. Of note is that there are W.W. LIGHT DENTIST counterstamps, without H.H. PIERSON.

    Great piece! Thanks for posting the pictures!

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • Lakesammman
    Lakesammman Posts: 17,696 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Cool! :+1: Nice counterstamp!

    Wonder if that was supposed to be a mortar and pestle rather than a beaker??

    Gone but not forgotten: IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal, CoinsAreFun.
  • 1630Boston
    1630Boston Posts: 14,157 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2018 9:07AM
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    John L. “J.L.” Polhemus

    Birth
    15 Nov 1825
    Monmouth County, New Jersey, USA

    Death
    17 Dec 1866 (aged 41)
    Sacramento, Sacramento County, California, USA

    Burial
    Sacramento City Cemetery

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,168 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Lakesammman said:
    Cool! :+1: Nice counterstamp!

    Wonder if that was supposed to be a mortar and pestle rather than a beaker??

    Yes, of course.

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • JBK
    JBK Posts: 17,862 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Regulated said:
    Here's my W.W. Light (without Pierson):

    Nice one.

    Looks like it could be the same counterstamp - just with the top name ground off the punch.

  • Regulated
    Regulated Posts: 2,994 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I've always suspected that Pierson was punched using a separate punch, since the words are a bit deeper into the die, and aren't precisely oriented the same way. If we had two Piersons to compare, we'd be able to tell, but I haven't got a photo of another one.


    What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
  • Zoins
    Zoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2018 12:37PM
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    @Regulated said:
    I've always suspected that Pierson was punched using a separate punch, since the words are a bit deeper into the die, and aren't precisely oriented the same way. If we had two Piersons to compare, we'd be able to tell, but I haven't got a photo of another one.

    That's my speculation as well, especially since the Light words are similar on others.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • fishteeth
    fishteeth Posts: 2,267 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Very cool Counter stamps. I would love to find one of with the dentist
    thanks for posting

  • Zoins
    Zoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2018 2:41AM
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    The non-shipwreck Polhemus double eagle ended up selling for $52,800. I updated the image in the first post to include this information.

    Here's some additional information on this coin:

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • Zoins
    Zoins Posts: 34,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2019 8:38PM
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    Old Thread Update

    Just ran across this W.W. Light on a Wass Molitor half eagle from the SS Central America:

    https://coinweek.com/us-coins/us-gold-coins/unprecedented-grouping-of-rare-territorial-gold-coins-aboard-ss-central-america-treasure/

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • jabba
    jabba Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Very cool stuff


    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923

    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923

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