1853-D "Medium D" $5 Mystery

Sheldon_Overton_Baby · October 22, 2018 2:39PM

Our gold experts can chime in. I was looking the coin over and looked at old auction records.

First, I don't know much about NGC but it seems they do NOT recognize the Medium D? I can't find any distinction in their Pop reports.

Second, according to PCGS the highest one to sell at auction was an NGC MS61 at a Goldberg Auction. I looked and sure enough Goldberg listed an MS61 Medium D but the coin they show is clearly not a Medium D. It is not even close. Sort of a embarrassingly bad screw up
images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?sale=41&site=1&lot=1591

Third, according to PCGS pop report they have only slabbed 2 at AU55 but Stack's sold an AU58:
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-2YY6Z

I can think that the "Medium D" designation was not on the AU58 holder which begs the question: what is the top pop 1853-D "Medium D" $5?

Sheldon_Overton_Baby · October 23, 2018 11:26AM

Bump...I think this just sort of got buried.

yosclimber · October 23, 2018 2:09PM

PCGS CoinFacts is usually a helpful resource for this kind of question, as they have a roster of top graded examples.
http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/98255

RogerB · October 23, 2018 2:17PM

Without access to my reference db at the moment - but I recall there only being 2 mintmark sizes for Dahlonega that year....but someone check my memory.

PS: The coin pictured in the Goldberg sale is EF --- not anywhere near being uncirculated.

Sheldon_Overton_Baby · October 23, 2018 5:48PM

@yosclimber said:
PCGS CoinFacts is usually a helpful resource for this kind of question, as they have a roster of top graded examples.
http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/98255

The information in there is not accurate. As I wrote: the one coin listed as MS 61 that sold is 100% not a Medium D and Coinfacts.com also list an AU58 that sold but the PCGS population reports zero at that grade.

yosclimber · October 23, 2018 8:03PM

@Sheldon_Overton_Baby said:

@yosclimber said:
PCGS CoinFacts is usually a helpful resource for this kind of question, as they have a roster of top graded examples.
http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/98255

The information in there is not accurate. As I wrote: the one coin listed as MS 61 that sold is 100% not a Medium D and Coinfacts.com also list an AU58 that sold but the PCGS population reports zero at that grade.

There are 2 tables of information on that page.
Your observation pertains to the auction table.
When I said "roster" I was intending to refer to the "Condition Census" list lower on the page,
although my terminology was unclear.
The top graded coins in the Condition Census list are AU-53.

Sheldon_Overton_Baby · October 24, 2018 6:34PM

@yosclimber said:

@Sheldon_Overton_Baby said:

@yosclimber said:
PCGS CoinFacts is usually a helpful resource for this kind of question, as they have a roster of top graded examples.
http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/98255

The information in there is not accurate. As I wrote: the one coin listed as MS 61 that sold is 100% not a Medium D and Coinfacts.com also list an AU58 that sold but the PCGS population reports zero at that grade.

There are 2 tables of information on that page.
Your observation pertains to the auction table.
When I said "roster" I was intending to refer to the "Condition Census" list lower on the page,
although my terminology was unclear.
The top graded coins in the Condition Census list are AU-53.

Yes and I know that is inaccurate as I can see an AU58 that successfully sold.

Boosibri · October 25, 2018 4:29AM

I've researched these in the past and did a mint mark comparison of the reported Medium D which basically confirmed for me that the Medium D does not in fact exist, or at least that the examples reported by the TPG's in the past auction records are not showing different mint mark than the Large D.

As an aside, for most of the Medium D, Large D etc for the Dahlonega series the labels are not always trustworthy and if paying a premium for a scarce variety I would independently verify the features. The ones I would see as worthy of a premium would be the Small D 1840 and the Large D 1855-D $5's. Note, all of the writing suggests that the Large D is the more common of the two 1855-D examples but just check the archives and you will see that most 1855-D's are the Medium D and that there are so very few true large D's.

Winchester1873 · October 30, 2018 4:23PM

Seems the ‘medium’ is a misnomer as the variety is based on the position of the inside upright of the D over the outside edge of the E in FIVE rather than the size of the mint mark.

Timbuk3 · October 30, 2018 5:59PM

Interesting information to know, thank you all for sharing !!!

Winchester1873 · September 25, 2019 5:10AM

Bumping an older post as a follow-up because the 1853-D Medium D $5 variety was just recently removed from the PCGS Registry (D Mint, Major Varieties) and the Coin Facts list of Half Eagles. Someone must have been listening in on the conversation.

Although I did not consider the ‘Medium D’ a correctly named variety, I picked this one up based on the appearance and uncommon placement of the mint mark.

yosclimber · August 6, 2020 6:51PM

Although the PCGS Coin Number for Medium D was removed from the listings,
the current PCGS CoinFacts page for $5 1853-D includes
text and a photo comparison by Doug Winter,
which says 4 reverse dies are known, and one is designated Medium D :

DIE VARIETIES: A total of four die varieties are currently known. There is a good possibility that a new obverse die will be discovered, especially in light of the fact that four reverses were used to strike the 1853-D half eagle.

Variety 29-T: Large Mintmark. The obverse is the same for all four varieties of this year. The date is centered in the field and the upper serif of the 1 extends to the end of the truncation. The reverse is the same as described for 1852-D Variety 28-T.

Variety 29-U: Large Mintmark. Same obverse as the last. This reverse was used in 1853 and again in 1854. The upright of the mintmark is over the upright of the E in FIVE. The left edge of the mintmark is over the left edge of the E while the right edge is over the right edge of the E. The mintmark appears to touch the stem and it is very close to the feather.

Variety 29-V: Large Mintmark. Same obverse as the last. The reverse was used only in 1853. The upright of the mintmark is over the left edge of the upright of the E in FIVE. The left edge of the mintmark is over the right serif of the right diagonal of the V in FIVE while the right edge is over the right edge of the E. The mintmark is away from the stem and the feather.

Variety 29-W: Medium Mintmark. Same obverse as the last. This reverse was used in 1853, 1854 and 1855. The upright of the mintmark is over the gap between the V and the E in FIVE. The left edge of the mintmark is over the center of the right diagonal of the V while the right edge extends out to the right edge of the middle segment of the E. The mintmark is away from the feather and the stem.

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1853-d-5-large/8255

Here is a direct comparison of Reverses V and W, which are quite similar, but the mint mark location
and size are different.

yosclimber · August 6, 2020 7:05PM

@Winchester1873 said:
Bumping an older post as a follow-up because the 1853-D Medium D $5 variety was just recently removed from the PCGS Registry (D Mint, Major Varieties) and the Coin Facts list of Half Eagles. Someone must have been listening in on the conversation.

Although I did not consider the ‘Medium D’ a correctly named variety, I picked this one up based on the appearance and uncommon placement of the mint mark.

...

This coin (now in the DL Hansen set) has Reverse V, based on the mint mark position, so it is indeed a Large D rather than Medium D.

It is a small but definite difference in position between Reverse V (Large D) and Reverse W (Medium D).

Apparently there has been a problem with misattribution of "Medium D" on the slabs,
and this may have led to the "Medium D" designation being dropped from the CoinFacts list.
It is still listed in the Major Varieties Registry Set, though:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/liberty-head-5-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-5-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-5-gold-major-varieties-circulation-strikes-1839-1908/composition/628

The PCGS Auction Prices Realized seems to group many NGC 1853-D coins into the Medium D category.
Perhaps this is because they do not say "Large D" on the label.

On PCGS Auction Prices Realized, I looked through the 6 listed Medium D (non-ebay),
and all were Large D.
https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/details/1853-d-medium-ms/98255
I also looked through 2 pages of the Large D, and all were Large D.
This suggests that Medium D is rare.

Also, the Reverse designations T, U, V, W are apparently from an older Doug Winter book.
I do not have a copy of the old or new book.
Perhaps someone with the new book can let us know if the Medium D is still listed.

old	new	rev. description
29-T	34-X, 35-X	Large D far left
29-U	35-AA	Large D far right, high
29-V	34-Y	Large D right
29-W	?	Medium D middle

yosclimber · August 21, 2020 2:38PM

On the Hansen watch thread, @Boosibri posted the page from the latest Doug Winter book,
which states the 1853-D Medium D does not exist.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12689748/#Comment_12689748

This suggests that the Reverse W photo above is from a different year (Medium D does exist for other years).

1853-D "Medium D" $5 Mystery

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