@TLeverage said:
The quality of chopmarked coins at this event was second to none, it took some time to find a date that fit everyone's schedules but it was absolutely worth it to see the caliber of coins that were present.
DDR has now put together the cream from both his set and TDN, and their combined efforts really can't be topped by anyone else, more finest knowns than you can shake a stick at.
A special thanks goes out to Rich L, whose collection of chopmarked pieces from the Rose Collecfion is fantastic to see in hand. Chopmarked examples of a Hawaiian Dala (unique), rare 8 Reales varieties, and much more than I could comfortably list here.
The coins and company were top notch, my favorite "show" of the year!
@BustDMs said:
I didn’t see any Capped Bust half dollars. Were there any there?
Yes, there was an example, which I still have. Dipped, but nice detail.
I have recently discovered, while going through my collection, an 1807 capped bust fifty cent piece which I had previously payed no attention to as ancients are my real interest. In condition it appears to be well circulated with one large chop mark using Chinese characters (between the fifty and the C and a much smaller one that looks like an asterisk. I have written about this on the cointalk.com site and I was told to write to you about it, I have posted some poor quality photos ther. If I can figure out how to do it here I will do that. I cannot find anybody selling something like this and would like to know its approximate value as I really don't collect this sort of thing (I did collect US decades ago) and would like to trade or sell it. Thanks for any help you can offer. If I cannot post it on this site I can send the photos to some email address. Kevikens
I have recently discovered, while going through my collection, an 1807 capped bust fifty cent piece which I had previously payed no attention to as ancients are my real interest. In condition it appears to be well circulated with one large chop mark using Chinese characters (between the fifty and the C and a much smaller one that looks like an asterisk. I have written about this on the cointalk.com site and I was told to write to you about it, I have posted some poor quality photos ther. If I can figure out how to do it here I will do that. I cannot find anybody selling something like this and would like to know its approximate value as I really don't collect this sort of thing (I did collect US decades ago) and would like to trade or sell it. Thanks for any help you can offer. If I cannot post it on this site I can send the photos to some email address.
>
The difficulty with this piece will be demonstrating that the marks are likely to have been applied in China. Looking at the images, it appears that the larger character that you refer to is made up of the same asterisk mark, applied several times, with what appears to be a small "bar" mark. While it isn't outside the realm of possibility that these marks originated in China, the burden of evidence would be on you to make a case that they are what you might claim them to be. If I was looking at this coin as a potential purchase, I would be doubtful that the marks were genuine Chinese chops; there were plenty of individuals applying marks domestically. If it was a genuine chopmarked Chinese piece, I'd say it would be worth around $500 in this condition, given how far prices have risen for scarce types.
How would it be possible for me to verify that these marks originated in China? At $500 I would be willing to send it out to some verification agency but I have no idea who would have the competency to verify their authenticity. Do you know of such a verification service or knowledgeable expert that could validate chop marks? Thanks for providing me with the information that you have
@kevikens said:
How would it be possible for me to verify that these marks originated in China? At $500 I would be willing to send it out to some verification agency but I have no idea who would have the competency to verify their authenticity. Do you know of such a verification service or knowledgeable expert that could validate chop marks? Thanks for providing me with the information that you have
Unfortunately, identifying genuine chops has a lot more pitfalls than identifying genuine host coins; you can't refer to die characteristics, pick up points, etc. The best we can do is verify the host coin as genuine, establish the likelihood that a coin of this type would have made it to China and back, and attempt to confirm that the marks that we see are of a similar pattern to others from the same time period (chopmark size and style varied with time). Unfortunately, third party graders use the term "chopmarked" rather loosely: it has been applied quite often to coins with unknown counterstamps as a catch-all term, so this coin might make it into a holder with a "chopmarked" designation, but it still might not necessarily be desirable to chopmark collectors if they don't believe the marks to be of the period and Chinese. While there are a few individuals in the field who are particularly knowledgeable (Colin Gullberg published a book a few years ago, and there are a handful of collectors with hundreds of pieces and years of experience), I'm not sure any one of them bears the name recognition that you're looking for. A lot of what determines value in chops is rather subjective, and price is normally set by a handful of interested collectors; if they have concerns about authenticity, the value will drop substantially.
I'd say your best bet with attempting to sell this piece would be to list it as-is on eBay or a similar site, describing the piece as having potential chopmarks, and let buyers decide for themselves, though as I said the marks are not terribly convincing overall.
Thanks, but I think that there is little likelihood from what you write that anyone is going to make a credible offer on a "maybe, possibly" authentic coin. I know the ancients field pretty well and I would never purchase from an on line site a Roman or Greek coin advertised as "potentially" ancient. Thanks for your assistance. I've had this coin in my collection so long I probably payed $10 for it at the time. I think I'll just put it back in my collection as a US type coin, first year of issue and leave it at that.
@kevikens said:
Thanks, but I think that there is little likelihood from what you write that anyone is going to make a credible offer on a "maybe, possibly" authentic coin. I know the ancients field pretty well and I would never purchase from an on line site a Roman or Greek coin advertised as "potentially" ancient. Thanks for your assistance. I've had this coin in my collection so long I probably payed $10 for it at the time. I think I'll just put it back in my collection as a US type coin, first year of issue and leave it at that.
I contacted ASNACS about whether they could authenticate Chinese chop marks on coins like this half dollar and they replied that they think they can. They asked me to send them photos which I did this morning. I will let readers here know what they said and if the opinion is favorable I will have it encapsulated and probably offer it for sale. Thanks for following this thread all of you who have done so.
Comments
I have recently discovered, while going through my collection, an 1807 capped bust fifty cent piece which I had previously payed no attention to as ancients are my real interest. In condition it appears to be well circulated with one large chop mark using Chinese characters (between the fifty and the C and a much smaller one that looks like an asterisk. I have written about this on the cointalk.com site and I was told to write to you about it, I have posted some poor quality photos ther. If I can figure out how to do it here I will do that. I cannot find anybody selling something like this and would like to know its approximate value as I really don't collect this sort of thing (I did collect US decades ago) and would like to trade or sell it. Thanks for any help you can offer. If I cannot post it on this site I can send the photos to some email address. Kevikens
Opps. still working on these photos'
>
The difficulty with this piece will be demonstrating that the marks are likely to have been applied in China. Looking at the images, it appears that the larger character that you refer to is made up of the same asterisk mark, applied several times, with what appears to be a small "bar" mark. While it isn't outside the realm of possibility that these marks originated in China, the burden of evidence would be on you to make a case that they are what you might claim them to be. If I was looking at this coin as a potential purchase, I would be doubtful that the marks were genuine Chinese chops; there were plenty of individuals applying marks domestically. If it was a genuine chopmarked Chinese piece, I'd say it would be worth around $500 in this condition, given how far prices have risen for scarce types.
How would it be possible for me to verify that these marks originated in China? At $500 I would be willing to send it out to some verification agency but I have no idea who would have the competency to verify their authenticity. Do you know of such a verification service or knowledgeable expert that could validate chop marks? Thanks for providing me with the information that you have
Unfortunately, identifying genuine chops has a lot more pitfalls than identifying genuine host coins; you can't refer to die characteristics, pick up points, etc. The best we can do is verify the host coin as genuine, establish the likelihood that a coin of this type would have made it to China and back, and attempt to confirm that the marks that we see are of a similar pattern to others from the same time period (chopmark size and style varied with time). Unfortunately, third party graders use the term "chopmarked" rather loosely: it has been applied quite often to coins with unknown counterstamps as a catch-all term, so this coin might make it into a holder with a "chopmarked" designation, but it still might not necessarily be desirable to chopmark collectors if they don't believe the marks to be of the period and Chinese. While there are a few individuals in the field who are particularly knowledgeable (Colin Gullberg published a book a few years ago, and there are a handful of collectors with hundreds of pieces and years of experience), I'm not sure any one of them bears the name recognition that you're looking for. A lot of what determines value in chops is rather subjective, and price is normally set by a handful of interested collectors; if they have concerns about authenticity, the value will drop substantially.
I'd say your best bet with attempting to sell this piece would be to list it as-is on eBay or a similar site, describing the piece as having potential chopmarks, and let buyers decide for themselves, though as I said the marks are not terribly convincing overall.
Thanks, but I think that there is little likelihood from what you write that anyone is going to make a credible offer on a "maybe, possibly" authentic coin. I know the ancients field pretty well and I would never purchase from an on line site a Roman or Greek coin advertised as "potentially" ancient. Thanks for your assistance. I've had this coin in my collection so long I probably payed $10 for it at the time. I think I'll just put it back in my collection as a US type coin, first year of issue and leave it at that.
I contacted ASNACS about whether they could authenticate Chinese chop marks on coins like this half dollar and they replied that they think they can. They asked me to send them photos which I did this morning. I will let readers here know what they said and if the opinion is favorable I will have it encapsulated and probably offer it for sale. Thanks for following this thread all of you who have done so.