Filthy, dirty, crusty Southern gold with an incredible pedigree - GTG added (Grades Revealed)...
I was doing some research on Pioneer Gold this afternoon, and ended up looking up the 1902 "Catalogue of the Collections of United States Coins of William R. Weeks and Augustus Humbert" from the Chapman Brothers. The copy I was looking at had notes in it, and identified the 141-Grain A. Bechtler $5 as "dark", which immediately reminded me of one of my very favorite Bechtlers of all time, an example that belongs to a good friend on the boards. His specimen is highly lustrous and prooflike on the obverse, with deep walnut brown toning accented by blue iridescence. It's an incredibly rare coin with only 15 known examples (I think three or four are locked up in museums).
There was no plate in Weeks, but most of Humbert's material in that sale was bought by Andrew Zabriskie, and sold as a part of his collection in 1909. The plates from that sale confirmed my suspicion - it's the same coin. Interestingly, Humbert spent time in the Appalachian gold fields, and very well may have collected the coin in the wild.
This is one for the lovers of crusty, original coins with perfect pedigrees:
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
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Awesome!
CoinsAreFun Pictorials Album FOR SALE SOME will mark final ones before auction
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC FOR SALE1 -
VERY nice!!!
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Loved learning about the story behind this coin. Thanks!
Seated Half Society member #38
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."2 -
Great coin, great history. Thanks for posting this.
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Regulated I like your threads.
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This content has been removed.
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That is a keeper. Love it.
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She's a lovely Sheila!
Got Crust....y gold?1 -
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Incredible piece!
Anything in the Zabriskie Collection, I'd be comfortable buying sight unseen. (Especially the Lincoln exonumia.)
I read the 1999 Sotheby's sale catalogue of his medals and tokens to my kids en lieu of bedtime stories.Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."6 -
The Zabriskie Point!
Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.1 -
Will ya look at that! Love it all the way.
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.2 -
Wow,"sweet" !!!
Timbuk30 -
Nice old gold... with history.....Cheers, RickO
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Magnificent.
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I assume that this was buried in the ground in a leather purse?
Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.2 -
@CaptHenway said:
I assume that this was buried in the ground in a leather purse?It certainly has that "leather purse" toning look.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."3 -
@CaptHenway said:
I assume that this was buried in the ground in a leather purse?I can imagine a leather purse or wooden container that off-gassed a bit, but I think the Humbert pedigree doesn't suggest a ground find or incredibly weird storage. It's only 83% gold with a lot of silver in it, so I'm pretty sure the extreme toning is more a function of what it is and the fact that it hasn't been futzed with by a coin dealer trying to make it fit his idea of "purdy".
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake2 -
As an aside, I've seen a couple other pieces that Humbert owned that were REALLY original, and I suspect that he (and Zabriskie) didn't clean or mishandle things, although I've seen a piece or two that were really messed with in the last 50 years (including the $10 Oregon Exchange piece that no longer has a hole in it).
Here's one of the nicer, unmessed-with things that Humbert put back when he was at the Assay Office:
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake5 -
Now let's play GTG on both pieces...
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake1 -
You realize that porn is not allowed on this forum.
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@Regulated said:
As an aside, I've seen a couple other pieces that Humbert owned that were REALLY original, and I suspect that he (and Zabriskie) didn't clean or mishandle things, although I've seen a piece or two that were really messed with in the last 50 years (including the $10 Oregon Exchange piece that no longer has a hole in it).Here's one of the nicer, unmessed-with things that Humbert put back when he was at the Assay Office:
SHAZAM!
Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.2 -
I came back to look again. I REALLY like it.
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AU58 for the Bechtler, MS64 for the slug.
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@Regulated said:
Now let's play GTG on both pieces...You have got to be kidding. My joke 63+65.
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great thread,amazing coins.
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The reveal on this pair will be a lot of fun.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake0 -
That slug is amazing.
Great detective work on the Bechtler, amazing coin also.
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$5 Bechtler - XF40
$50 Humbert - MS631 -
Because of the crude production of these territorials, grading is really hard...the best guesses I can manage:
A. Bechtler $5: AU50 to 55
Humbert $50: MS63 to 65
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I've got to go 65 on the slug. Fabulous almost proof strike with great detail and only minimal distractions for a very nice territorial gold that I could only pause at guessing the value of!
Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
Well, just Love coins, period.1 -
Bechtler: AU 55
Humbert: MS 65
ANA-LM, CWTS-LM, NBS, TAMS, ANS
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Love these coins and stories.
Bechtler:AU55
Humbert: MS64"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
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XF45, MS65 respectively.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."1 -
XF-45 - Bechtler
PR-65 - Slug
Sunshine Rare Coins
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The Bechtler is a 53.
I'll guess the Humbert is a 64.The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson1 -
The Bechtler is currently very conservatively graded in a PCGS AU53 holder. It's nicer than many AU55s that I've seen, and frankly, I'd rather own it than MANY Bechtlers that have graded mint state after being processed. The slug was graded PR65 by PCGS, and is the only proof slug in private hands, although another example was sent to the Mint in 1851, and now lives at the Smithsonian.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake5 -
@afford said:
Who would not love that beauty.Clothes makes the man!
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.1 -
Beautiful and fascinating pieces. Thanks for sharing.
Do you agree with the proof designation? Can such a piece even be called a proof or would proof-like be more appropriate?
The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson0 -
@TheRegulator said:
Beautiful and fascinating pieces. Thanks for sharing.Do you agree with the proof designation? Can such a piece even be called a proof or would proof-like be more appropriate?
For this particular piece - a coin struck at a mint without a medal press - freshly polished dies and an extraordinary strike gets me to SP. Add a specially prepared planchet to the mix and I get to PR. But that’s just me.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.2 -
The coin was unquestionably intended to be special, and was made differently than the regular production issues.
At the moment, it's become fashionable to very narrowly define the term "proof" - a tendency that I understand. Whether this piece gets a PR for Proof, an SP for Specially Struck (or specimen, or whatever SP stands for this week), or an HS for HOLY SHIT, it stands alone.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake4 -
XF45
PF63+0 -
@Regulated said:
The coin was unquestionably intended to be special, and was made differently than the regular production issues.At the moment, it's become fashionable to very narrowly define the term "proof" - a tendency that I understand. Whether this piece gets a PR for Proof, an SP for Specially Struck (or specimen, or whatever SP stands for this week), or an HS for HOLY SHIT, it stands alone.
SH-65 for SHAZAM!
Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.1 -
@Regulated said:
The Bechtler is currently very conservatively graded in a PCGS AU53 holder. It's nicer than many AU55s that I've seen, and frankly, I'd rather own it than MANY Bechtlers that have graded mint state after being processed. The slug was graded PR65 by PCGS, and is the only proof slug in private hands, although another example was sent to the Mint in 1851, and now lives at the Smithsonian.Good thing that it was first found before anyone had invented ...dip.
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@Regulated said:
The Bechtler is currently very conservatively graded in a PCGS AU53 holder. It's nicer than many AU55s that I've seen, and frankly, I'd rather own it than MANY Bechtlers that have graded mint state after being processed. The slug was graded PR65 by PCGS, and is the only proof slug in private hands, although another example was sent to the Mint in 1851, and now lives at the Smithsonian.But how will we ever be sure? Have they gone to CAC yet?
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The slug in question might have been made as a sample to show the full design. However, it is not a "proof coin" by definition. This kind of definition creep, like grade inflation, is common among those selling stuff who want to pump up the price. Simply put, the coin's quality is self evident and it needs no slip-n-slide "proofiness" to realize fair value.
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I'm going to go AU-50 on the Bechtler - actual XF-45 wear, but bumped up to a '50 due to eye-appeal. The Humbert is a 64 at least.
'dude
Got Crust....y gold?0
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