@messydesk said:
Any chance the 1922 is an altered 1928? Looking at the ribbon next to the 2nd 2, is it abnormally thin near where it makes contact with the digit, as if carved away when chasing metal? It is very well done, though, however it was made.
This is my vote as well, there is a post earlier in this thread showing all of the dates in the 1920s and the form of the 2s on this coin most resemble the 1928.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
This thread sent me down a rabbit hole of photo comparisons of various years for a long time.
It led me to other Buffalos of interest too... must...resist...
@messydesk said:
Any chance the 1922 is an altered 1928? Looking at the ribbon next to the 2nd 2, is it abnormally thin near where it makes contact with the digit, as if carved away when chasing metal? It is very well done, though, however it was made.
This is my vote as well, there is a post earlier in this thread showing all of the dates in the 1920s and the form of the 2s on this coin most resemble the 1928.
Sean Reynolds
Based on the image provided, I am under the impression that both of these posters are decidedly incorrect concerning the 1922 date of this coin.
@messydesk said:
Any chance the 1922 is an altered 1928? Looking at the ribbon next to the 2nd 2, is it abnormally thin near where it makes contact with the digit, as if carved away when chasing metal? It is very well done, though, however it was made.
This is my vote as well, there is a post earlier in this thread showing all of the dates in the 1920s and the form of the 2s on this coin most resemble the 1928.
Sean Reynolds
Based on the image provided, I am under the impression that both of these posters are decidedly incorrect concerning the 1922 date of this coin.
Is that a D Carr overstrike or something? I had genuinely never seen one before, please let me know what I'm missing.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
@messydesk said:
Any chance the 1922 is an altered 1928? Looking at the ribbon next to the 2nd 2, is it abnormally thin near where it makes contact with the digit, as if carved away when chasing metal? It is very well done, though, however it was made.
This is my vote as well, there is a post earlier in this thread showing all of the dates in the 1920s and the form of the 2s on this coin most resemble the 1928.
Sean Reynolds
Based on the image provided, I am under the impression that both of these posters are decidedly incorrect concerning the 1922 date of this coin.
My only assertion was that it was very well done. How can you disagree with that? Seanq asserts that the 1928 digits are closest to the "1922" coin, which I also checked before making my post. He is also correct.
@messydesk said: "My only assertion was that it was very well done. How can you disagree with that?"
My sincere apologies. Regarding your comment: "Any chance the 1922 is an altered 1928? Looking at the ribbon next to the 2nd 2, is it abnormally thin near where it makes contact with the digit, as if carved away when chasing metal? It is very well done, though, however it was made."
I should have posted: "Based on the image provided, I am under the impression that there is absolutely no chance that the coin's date has been altered from any other date."
@Insider2 said: @messydesk said: "My only assertion was that it was very well done. How can you disagree with that?"
My sincere apologies. Regarding your comment: "Any chance the 1922 is an altered 1928? Looking at the ribbon next to the 2nd 2, is it abnormally thin near where it makes contact with the digit, as if carved away when chasing metal? It is very well done, though, however it was made."
I should have posted: "Based on the image provided, I am under the impression that there is absolutely no chance that the coin's date has been altered from any other date."
Is this due to the fact that it looks better than any alteration you've ever seen? Because I've never seen an alteration this good, either. It would be nice to have a pro hobo carver weigh in on this, just to get insight into the limits of an alteration by chasing metal.
Went to the Denver Coin Expo today and looked at about 30 circ. 1925's without success.
One thing of note. On genuine coins in low grade the 5 does tend to merge with the ribbon, so don't just go by that. Look for the flat top on the O of OF.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
First time I ever saw that coin. Looks real, but I don't think any dies were prepared for 1922 in Philadelphia. Only 1922 Peace and Saints were produced there (unknown if any foreign coins were made).
The coin itself shows a clash on EPU. Much more study needs to be made. I'm not saying it's genuine....just that nothing stands out at the moment. The second 2 near the feather had to be chased, as there were no years in the Buffalo series with dates ending in 2.
Where did you find it?
P.S. This coin was posted and commented on ATS back in 2011. I's been around a while. I agree that Hobo Nickel artists would have good opinions on how the engraving was performed.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
Foreign coins were made for Colombia, Costa Rica, French Indo China, Nicaragua and Venezuela.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Ultimately, every detail on genuine buffalo nickels was hand-carved at some point. If someone was good enough to produce the original it stands to reason that someone else could be good enough to do revision work on a die (or a single coin) without leaving too much of a trace.
I’m not familiar with the sequence from original art to working dies for the buff nick but I have no doubt an expert could do skilled work that would be virtually undetectable.
@BuffaloIronTail said:
First time I ever saw that coin. Looks real, but I don't think any dies were prepared for 1922 in Philadelphia. Only 1922 Peace and Saints were produced there (unknown if any foreign coins were made).
The coin itself shows a clash on EPU. Much more study needs to be made. I'm not saying it's genuine....just that nothing stands out at the moment. The second 2 near the feather had to be chased, as there were no years in the Buffalo series with dates ending in 2.
Where did you find it?
P.S. This coin was posted and commented on ATS back in 2011. I's been around a while. I agree that Hobo Nickel artists would have good opinions on how the engraving was performed.
Pete
Got it from eBay many years ago.
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
@BryceM said:
Ultimately, every detail on genuine buffalo nickels was hand-carved at some point. If someone was good enough to produce the original it stands to reason that someone else could be good enough to do revision work on a die (or a single coin) without leaving too much of a trace.
Not exactly. Engraving a new date on a master die and transferring through a hub to a working die to a coin is different from chasing metal on small part of a struck coin. It may be able to be done such that it is indistinguishable from what would have been produced from the master die, especially once the coin is worn, but it's not the same.
I’m not familiar with the sequence from original art to working dies for the buff nick but I have no doubt an expert could do skilled work that would be virtually undetectable.
As far as I know, once date punches were retired, in order to change the date, a working hub from year n has the digits effaced, then is used to make a new master die. The new digits for year n+1 are engraved into the master die, which is then used to make working hubs. Over a period of several years, the detail in the master die degrades because of this. This is one reason why later dates in a series tend to have lousy detail until the design is refreshed, such as on 1969 cents. The master die starts looking like a 50th generation Xerox copy that's been passed around through intra-company mail until it's nearly illegible (to draw a 1980s comparison).
The coin is a very well done fantasy counterfeit, probably of Chinese origin. I remember when they were available on ebay. I wish I would have gotten one. There were many different counterfeits available, including key dates, but those weren't nearly as well done as the 1922. They were good enough to fool many casual collectors, tho. I got a 1913-D Var 2 as a "show and tell" coin.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Here is a counterfeit or so-called copy coin that is for sale on flea bay right now. It is from China,,,,,,
I think you can do a buy it now for about five bucks.....
This is supposed to be illegal but I doubt they will do anything about it.
This would fool a lot of collectors.
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Yup, this is not a good situation for new collectors and the uninformed. It is still worth the effort to report the fraud into their system. It's gotta help. Peace Roy
I have in my hand the second specimen of the OP's 1925. It has the blunt topped 5 next to the curved ribbon; the smooshed 9, the O in oF much wider than it is tall (not really flat topped as I thought it was on the OP's coin), and the same irregularities in E PLURIBUS UNUM.
It is, in my professional opinion, a counterfeit coin.
Will study further and report when finished.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Nice to hear, Tom. As we all know, finding another specimen is great news.
I would have to concur with you on the counterfeit designation, even without seeing the coin. I did waffle a bit, but as the evidence mounted the decision seems to be a no brainer.
This entire journey was and is a learning tool, especially for all those who religiously followed this thread.
This is what it's all about, roomies. I know that a lot was learned about Buffalo Nickels just from following.
Pete
P.S. I'm saddened that a some of the contributory members that added to our knowledge are no longer here.
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
I'll be looking at all my 1925s as soon as I can figure out where all that junk is. I keep my circ. Buffalo nickels in the backs of drawers and in wooden boxes on the dresser, etc, along with the wheat cents.
I could have one somewhere but it might not discovered for years.
Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
@BUFFNIXX said:
I will be sending if off for certification.
Will report back here when I get the results.
This should be interesting.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@BUFFNIXX said:
I almost forgot about this one, a real puzzle as it looks real and grades vf-xf. (This is my coin).
No puzzle what so ever. It’s a fake and ya gotta know it’s a fake. Come on now.
I wanted to point out to all that this is NOT one of the 21st century Chineese fakes that were pumped out in large quantities in the earlier part of the 21st century, sometime in the “aughts” (2000-2009) I do believe. This 1922 has a different look and appears to have spent a number of years to get its current “grade”. The Chineese fakes were offered in sets, with most all dates between 1913 and 1938, all except the type one coins were produced for some reason. Some were outright laughable as for example the fake 1918/7-d and 1937-d 3 legged coins which were immediately recognizable as fakes by the cure overdate and the obviously removed leg on the three legger. This piece appears to be perhaps the only one produced as if there were more they would have shown up by now.
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
If someone is going to try to compile a list of all counterfeits then you must include the large number of Chineese fakes that were sold on eBay as I mentioned just above. These were supposed to be delivered to the buyer with the word COPY prominently displayed somewhere in the field of the coin. But when the “coins: or “cons” were delivered there was no word “COPY” anywhere on the coin so instead of a COPY coin you received a counterfeit. All type two coins were produced with the exception of the three type one coins, the P, d, and S versions. I still have somewhere a nice fully profile 1921-d which I guess is not a counterfeit as there was no 1921-d produced.
These fakes were offered as complete sets and they were sold on flea bay for a couple of years until they started to show as being offered as real coins!
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Having seen the 1922 coin, I, too, think it's head and shoulders above the Chinese fakes mentioned. I would be very surprised if it should turn out to be a genuine coin. Examination and confirmation by a reputable slabbing company or other expert(s) is absolutely mandatory. I will be anxiously awaiting the results.
@koynekwest said:
Having seen the 1922 coin, I, too, think it's head and shoulders above the Chinese fakes mentioned. I would be very surprised if it should turn out to be a genuine coin. Examination and confirmation by a reputable slabbing company or other expert(s) is absolutely mandatory. I will be anxiously awaiting the results.
A lot of time and energy was put into the making of that obverse. The engraving work is excellent. Just echoing what you said, Ron.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
Wow, I was going to say the “5” looked funny, now with jesbroken’s info likely a contemporary counterfeit - would be good to see a photo of an additional 1925 example though.
@Connecticoin said:
Wow, I was going to say the “5” looked funny, now with jesbroken’s info likely a contemporary counterfeit - would be good to see a photo of an additional 1925 example though.
The 1925 is a good fake, but we're talking about a 1922 Buffalo Nickel in the message above. It is an exceptionally well done fake.
As far as the 1925, a second coin was located, but no pic posted. It has been confirmed as a counterfeit.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
@Connecticoin said:
Wow, I was going to say the “5” looked funny, now with jesbroken’s info likely a contemporary counterfeit - would be good to see a photo of an additional 1925 example though.
The 1925 is a good fake, but we're talking about a 1922 Buffalo Nickel in the message above. It is an exceptionally well done fake.
As far as the 1925, a second coin was located, but no pic posted. It has been confirmed as a counterfeit.
Pete
Yeah I saw that later on. I was at the end of page 1 and thought that was the end of the thread
My work on the 1925 has been delayed because my wife had an appendectomy yesterday. Everything is going well but there are priorities.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@CaptHenway said:
My work on the 1925 has been delayed because my wife had an appendectomy yesterday. Everything is going well but there are priorities.
Yea Tom. Understood. I just had an Angioplasty yesterday and am on the mend myself.
Best wishes and good health to all of you.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
@CaptHenway said:
I have in my hand the second specimen of the OP's 1925. It has the blunt topped 5 next to the curved ribbon; the smooshed 9, the O in oF much wider than it is tall (not really flat topped as I thought it was on the OP's coin), and the same irregularities in E PLURIBUS UNUM.
It is, in my professional opinion, a counterfeit coin.
Will study further and report when finished.
TD
Will you be rendering an opinion on whether its a contemporary, or modern counterfeit?
@koynekwest said:
Having seen the 1922 coin, I, too, think it's head and shoulders above the Chinese fakes mentioned. I would be very surprised if it should turn out to be a genuine coin. Examination and confirmation by a reputable slabbing company or other expert(s) is absolutely mandatory. I will be anxiously awaiting the results.
I think a LOT of people will be surprised should it turn out to be real, not just me. Amazed and dumbfounded might be better terms to use. If that's real, Tom (BUFFNIXX), you will be set for life.
@koynekwest said:
Having seen the 1922 coin, I, too, think it's head and shoulders above the Chinese fakes mentioned. I would be very surprised if it should turn out to be a genuine coin. Examination and confirmation by a reputable slabbing company or other expert(s) is absolutely mandatory. I will be anxiously awaiting the results.
I think a LOT of people will be surprised should it turn out to be real, not just me. Amazed and dumbfounded might be better terms to use. If that's real, Tom (BUFFNIXX), you will be set for life.
The Egyptians would tell you that you would also be set for the AFTERLIFE too!
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
Took the second specimen of the fake 1925 to two different coin shops near me, but neither had a sophisticated metal tester. The piece looks like normal copper-nickel but I am curious as to what trace elements it might have, which could theoretically give an indication as to where it was made.
Any suggestions for a TPG or other service that could do this for me?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@CaptHenway said:
Took the second specimen of the fake 1925 to two different coin shops near me, but neither had a sophisticated metal tester. The piece looks like normal copper-nickel but I am curious as to what trace elements it might have, which could theoretically give an indication as to where it was made.
Any suggestions for a TPG or other service that could do this for me?
The other contemporary counterfeit nickels I've listed in this thread have all tested as a variation of German silver. Therefore I would suspect this piece would be similar - at least it has a similar appearance. I used to go to one local XRF lab in So Cal, but since moving away earlier this year I don't have access to this place any more, so I don't have any immediate suggestions. That said, if you contact Chris Pilliod he has access to XRF equipment and could test your piece probably at a nominal cost.
I have shown this previously, as I thought it to be counterfeit, but had a few who doubted it was counterfeit, but only pmd or wear with a weak strike. I can't put my finger on it, but several things don't look right to me. The obverse appears off struck to the west and the reverse doesn.t, The wear on the hip doesn't match the wear on the head, cape, and side. On the obverse the throat and braid end look different to me along with the third feather end has a more straight line than the acute angle on most. I am told I am imagining the differences by more than one, so maybe so, but I would like some of your opinions. I'll miss Skips opinion. He can email me at jimbowling@suddenlink.net if he wishes.
Thanks
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@CaptHenway said:
Took the second specimen of the fake 1925 to two different coin shops near me, but neither had a sophisticated metal tester. The piece looks like normal copper-nickel but I am curious as to what trace elements it might have, which could theoretically give an indication as to where it was made.
Any suggestions for a TPG or other service that could do this for me?
The other contemporary counterfeit nickels I've listed in this thread have all tested as a variation of German silver. Therefore I would suspect this piece would be similar - at least it has a similar appearance. I used to go to one local XRF lab in So Cal, but since moving away earlier this year I don't have access to this place any more, so I don't have any immediate suggestions. That said, if you contact Chris Pilliod he has access to XRF equipment and could test your piece probably at a nominal cost.
German Silver? I did not know that. Thanks for the tip.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Comments
First time I ever saw this coin.
Am I in the Twilight Zone?
Pete
This is my vote as well, there is a post earlier in this thread showing all of the dates in the 1920s and the form of the 2s on this coin most resemble the 1928.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
This thread sent me down a rabbit hole of photo comparisons of various years for a long time.
It led me to other Buffalos of interest too... must...resist...
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
Based on the image provided, I am under the impression that both of these posters are decidedly incorrect concerning the 1922 date of this coin.
Is that a D Carr overstrike or something? I had genuinely never seen one before, please let me know what I'm missing.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
My only assertion was that it was very well done. How can you disagree with that?
Seanq asserts that the 1928 digits are closest to the "1922" coin, which I also checked before making my post. He is also correct.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
@seanq said: "Is that a D Carr overstrike or something? I had genuinely never seen one before, please let me know what I'm missing."
IMHO, the date area of the spurious nickel is 100% original and "as made."" Changing an "8" into a "2" would look NOTHING like this.
No puzzle what so ever. It’s a fake and ya gotta know it’s a fake. Come on now.
@messydesk said: "My only assertion was that it was very well done. How can you disagree with that?"
My sincere apologies. Regarding your comment: "Any chance the 1922 is an altered 1928? Looking at the ribbon next to the 2nd 2, is it abnormally thin near where it makes contact with the digit, as if carved away when chasing metal? It is very well done, though, however it was made."
I should have posted: "Based on the image provided, I am under the impression that there is absolutely no chance that the coin's date has been altered from any other date."
Is this due to the fact that it looks better than any alteration you've ever seen? Because I've never seen an alteration this good, either. It would be nice to have a pro hobo carver weigh in on this, just to get insight into the limits of an alteration by chasing metal.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Went to the Denver Coin Expo today and looked at about 30 circ. 1925's without success.
One thing of note. On genuine coins in low grade the 5 does tend to merge with the ribbon, so don't just go by that. Look for the flat top on the O of OF.
If it is then you have a better story to tell then otherwise.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
First time I ever saw that coin. Looks real, but I don't think any dies were prepared for 1922 in Philadelphia. Only 1922 Peace and Saints were produced there (unknown if any foreign coins were made).
The coin itself shows a clash on EPU. Much more study needs to be made. I'm not saying it's genuine....just that nothing stands out at the moment. The second 2 near the feather had to be chased, as there were no years in the Buffalo series with dates ending in 2.
Where did you find it?
P.S. This coin was posted and commented on ATS back in 2011. I's been around a while. I agree that Hobo Nickel artists would have good opinions on how the engraving was performed.
Pete
Don't forget the 1922 Grant commemoratives.
Foreign coins were made for Colombia, Costa Rica, French Indo China, Nicaragua and Venezuela.
Thank you Tom. Great addition and info.
Pete
That is the first 1922 Buff I have seen. Very well done however it was made. Would like to also know if more have been located.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Ultimately, every detail on genuine buffalo nickels was hand-carved at some point. If someone was good enough to produce the original it stands to reason that someone else could be good enough to do revision work on a die (or a single coin) without leaving too much of a trace.
I’m not familiar with the sequence from original art to working dies for the buff nick but I have no doubt an expert could do skilled work that would be virtually undetectable.
Got it from eBay many years ago.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Tom (BUFFNIXX) showed this coin to me several years ago.
Not exactly. Engraving a new date on a master die and transferring through a hub to a working die to a coin is different from chasing metal on small part of a struck coin. It may be able to be done such that it is indistinguishable from what would have been produced from the master die, especially once the coin is worn, but it's not the same.
As far as I know, once date punches were retired, in order to change the date, a working hub from year n has the digits effaced, then is used to make a new master die. The new digits for year n+1 are engraved into the master die, which is then used to make working hubs. Over a period of several years, the detail in the master die degrades because of this. This is one reason why later dates in a series tend to have lousy detail until the design is refreshed, such as on 1969 cents. The master die starts looking like a 50th generation Xerox copy that's been passed around through intra-company mail until it's nearly illegible (to draw a 1980s comparison).
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
The coin is a very well done fantasy counterfeit, probably of Chinese origin. I remember when they were available on ebay. I wish I would have gotten one. There were many different counterfeits available, including key dates, but those weren't nearly as well done as the 1922. They were good enough to fool many casual collectors, tho. I got a 1913-D Var 2 as a "show and tell" coin.
Just for yucks I googled 1922 Buffalo nickel, and this came up amongst a lot of other folderol.
https://d1rcylxe0mqwrt.cloudfront.net/cdn-1505504237160/media/wysiwyg/old.png
here is what the pic above is, I copied it as it is a really nice picture.....
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
i also have a nice BU fully proof like 1921-D buffalo nickel, will post it tomorrow or after I find it!
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Here is a counterfeit or so-called copy coin that is for sale on flea bay right now. It is from China,,,,,,
I think you can do a buy it now for about five bucks.....
This is supposed to be illegal but I doubt they will do anything about it.
This would fool a lot of collectors.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Yup, this is not a good situation for new collectors and the uninformed. It is still worth the effort to report the fraud into their system. It's gotta help. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
I have in my hand the second specimen of the OP's 1925. It has the blunt topped 5 next to the curved ribbon; the smooshed 9, the O in oF much wider than it is tall (not really flat topped as I thought it was on the OP's coin), and the same irregularities in E PLURIBUS UNUM.
It is, in my professional opinion, a counterfeit coin.
Will study further and report when finished.
TD
Nice to hear, Tom. As we all know, finding another specimen is great news.
I would have to concur with you on the counterfeit designation, even without seeing the coin. I did waffle a bit, but as the evidence mounted the decision seems to be a no brainer.
This entire journey was and is a learning tool, especially for all those who religiously followed this thread.
This is what it's all about, roomies. I know that a lot was learned about Buffalo Nickels just from following.
Pete
P.S. I'm saddened that a some of the contributory members that added to our knowledge are no longer here.
And now the search is on.
I'll be looking at all my 1925s as soon as I can figure out where all that junk is. I keep my circ. Buffalo nickels in the backs of drawers and in wooden boxes on the dresser, etc, along with the wheat cents.
I could have one somewhere but it might not discovered for years.
Let me amend my comments above concerning the 1922 Buff-it is a counterfeit in my opinion. I am by no means an expert with this kind of stuff, tho.
This should be interesting.
I wanted to point out to all that this is NOT one of the 21st century Chineese fakes that were pumped out in large quantities in the earlier part of the 21st century, sometime in the “aughts” (2000-2009) I do believe. This 1922 has a different look and appears to have spent a number of years to get its current “grade”. The Chineese fakes were offered in sets, with most all dates between 1913 and 1938, all except the type one coins were produced for some reason. Some were outright laughable as for example the fake 1918/7-d and 1937-d 3 legged coins which were immediately recognizable as fakes by the cure overdate and the obviously removed leg on the three legger. This piece appears to be perhaps the only one produced as if there were more they would have shown up by now.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
If someone is going to try to compile a list of all counterfeits then you must include the large number of Chineese fakes that were sold on eBay as I mentioned just above. These were supposed to be delivered to the buyer with the word COPY prominently displayed somewhere in the field of the coin. But when the “coins: or “cons” were delivered there was no word “COPY” anywhere on the coin so instead of a COPY coin you received a counterfeit. All type two coins were produced with the exception of the three type one coins, the P, d, and S versions. I still have somewhere a nice fully profile 1921-d which I guess is not a counterfeit as there was no 1921-d produced.
These fakes were offered as complete sets and they were sold on flea bay for a couple of years until they started to show as being offered as real coins!
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Having seen the 1922 coin, I, too, think it's head and shoulders above the Chinese fakes mentioned. I would be very surprised if it should turn out to be a genuine coin. Examination and confirmation by a reputable slabbing company or other expert(s) is absolutely mandatory. I will be anxiously awaiting the results.
A lot of time and energy was put into the making of that obverse. The engraving work is excellent. Just echoing what you said, Ron.
Pete
Agreed, Pete. You'd have to see the coin to appreciate how well it's done. Real or fake it's an extraordinary item.
Wow, I was going to say the “5” looked funny, now with jesbroken’s info likely a contemporary counterfeit - would be good to see a photo of an additional 1925 example though.
The 1925 is a good fake, but we're talking about a 1922 Buffalo Nickel in the message above. It is an exceptionally well done fake.
As far as the 1925, a second coin was located, but no pic posted. It has been confirmed as a counterfeit.
Pete
Yeah I saw that later on. I was at the end of page 1 and thought that was the end of the thread
My work on the 1925 has been delayed because my wife had an appendectomy yesterday. Everything is going well but there are priorities.
Yea Tom. Understood. I just had an Angioplasty yesterday and am on the mend myself.
Best wishes and good health to all of you.
Pete
Best of luck, Pete.
Will you be rendering an opinion on whether its a contemporary, or modern counterfeit?
I think a LOT of people will be surprised should it turn out to be real, not just me. Amazed and dumbfounded might be better terms to use. If that's real, Tom (BUFFNIXX), you will be set for life.
The Egyptians would tell you that you would also be set for the AFTERLIFE too!
Pete
Took the second specimen of the fake 1925 to two different coin shops near me, but neither had a sophisticated metal tester. The piece looks like normal copper-nickel but I am curious as to what trace elements it might have, which could theoretically give an indication as to where it was made.
Any suggestions for a TPG or other service that could do this for me?
The other contemporary counterfeit nickels I've listed in this thread have all tested as a variation of German silver. Therefore I would suspect this piece would be similar - at least it has a similar appearance. I used to go to one local XRF lab in So Cal, but since moving away earlier this year I don't have access to this place any more, so I don't have any immediate suggestions. That said, if you contact Chris Pilliod he has access to XRF equipment and could test your piece probably at a nominal cost.
I have shown this previously, as I thought it to be counterfeit, but had a few who doubted it was counterfeit, but only pmd or wear with a weak strike. I can't put my finger on it, but several things don't look right to me. The obverse appears off struck to the west and the reverse doesn.t, The wear on the hip doesn't match the wear on the head, cape, and side. On the obverse the throat and braid end look different to me along with the third feather end has a more straight line than the acute angle on most. I am told I am imagining the differences by more than one, so maybe so, but I would like some of your opinions. I'll miss Skips opinion. He can email me at jimbowling@suddenlink.net if he wishes.
Thanks
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
German Silver? I did not know that. Thanks for the tip.
counterfeit 1928s I just got -- first the reverse
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"