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A little more information about aluminum proof sets - 1868. Cost of aluminum added to last !

RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited October 16, 2018 12:17PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Sets of U.S. coinage struck in aluminum were prepared in 1868. These highly unusual and prized pieces are not really patterns, but prestige sets intended to show off the precious metal aluminum. Here's a little more information of the date and quantity of full sets made.

Four sets have traditionally been attributed to the Treasury Department and this is supported by several letters and other documents. However, the five additional sets (with unknown packaging) have not previously been discussed.

Comments

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The text reads:

    "Order received June 6th 1868 from the Director by A. Thacher, Clerk.
    5 Aluminum setts [sic] of the coins of the United States. Delivered on or before July 6, 1868.
    (4 setts as above, were previously struck and delivered on an order from the Treasury Dep't. at Washington.)"

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,639 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting, thanks. Aluminium was pretty uncommon then. I think it was not made on a large scale industrially until the mid 1880's. Love to see those.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There were 200 of the 5-cent 1867 made in aluminum.

  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,657 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Much more expensive than gold at that time. Definitely rare and prized possessions.

    thefinn
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "setts?"

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,347 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2018 12:10AM

    @RogerB said:
    There were 200 of the 5-cent 1867 made in aluminum.

    Those would be the Longacre pattern, of course, not Shield Nickels. Given the number of coins in existence, that's almost certainly the entire mintage of those.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,347 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @EagleEye said:
    I list eight different examples of the aluminum 1868 cent in my book. Two die pairs, 4 of each.
    Thanks for posting. I'll look out for the 9th.

    And when you find it, we'll know which die pair was probably used first!

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,347 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thefinn said:
    Much more expensive than gold at that time. Definitely rare and prized possessions.

    That was true at one point, but not in 1868. (I know that because the 1867 aluminum pattern nickels would have contained about five cents worth of nickel, which was the reason aluminum was being considered in the first place.) But yes, the metal was still considered exotic and fairly scarce. Just not valuable-as-gold exotic and scarce.

    On a side note, when I searched for corroboration to the above, I found an interesting quote that may help explain why the unique 1855 Seated Half Dollar in aluminum was struck. The coin has always been a bit of a mystery, given that it is the only aluminum pattern struck before 1867.

    "in 1854, Henri Sainte-Claire Deville developed a way of producing the metal on a much larger scale with the use of sodium, allowing, for the first time in history, kilograms of the metal to be produced at a time. For comparisons sake, it had taken Wöhler years to produce the same amount of aluminium Deville could produce in a single day.

    A year later, in 1855, 12 small ingots of aluminium were displayed at the “Exposition Universelle” a huge French exhibition organised at the bequest of French emperor Napoleon III. Almost immediately after the exhibition, demand for this magical metal sky-rocketed. "

    It's not hard to imagine that the coin was either struck for exhibition there, or was struck as a direct result of someone's visit there.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting discussion, thanks for sharing !!! :)

    Timbuk3
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very interesting.... How many (of each denomination) are accounted for? Probably some were simply discarded over the years... Cheers, RickO

  • dengadenga Posts: 922 ✭✭✭

    The 1868 aluminum coin sets are also discussed in an article that appeared
    in the Gobrecht Journal No. 126 (summer 2016), pages 28–29.

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,437 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The coin has always been a bit of a mystery, given that it is the only aluminum pattern struck before 1867.

    How about the 1864-L IHC in Al? Pattern?

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
  • fiftysevenerfiftysevener Posts: 921 ✭✭✭✭

    Hard to believe that today aluminum is the most abundant metal known on planet earth.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yep. That's one of the four Treasury sets.

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,600 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Definitely not my series(s) in either original or aluminum format, but these seem to get flipped at auction with some frequency and that if one really wanted one that it comes available perhaps more frequently than one would expect. Maybe they are less impressive in hand over time and tendency to sell them back into the market??

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,347 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2018 8:08AM

    @Lakesammman said:
    The coin has always been a bit of a mystery, given that it is the only aluminum pattern struck before 1867.

    How about the 1864-L IHC in Al? Pattern?

    I believe it was struck after 1867. Same is likely for all other 1863-65 dated aluminum patterns, with the exception of the 1863 postage currency dimes. (I forgot that one!) The 1855 half is still an outlier.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very interesting, thanks for that. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,347 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7Jaguars said:
    Definitely not my series(s) in either original or aluminum format, but these seem to get flipped at auction with some frequency and that if one really wanted one that it comes available perhaps more frequently than one would expect. Maybe they are less impressive in hand over time and tendency to sell them back into the market??

    They’re certainly less impressive when removed from their case and slabbed, as has been the case with every set that has come to market since the TPGs came along.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,657 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:

    @thefinn said:
    Much more expensive than gold at that time. Definitely rare and prized possessions.

    That was true at one point, but not in 1868. (I know that because the 1867 aluminum pattern nickels would have contained about five cents worth of nickel, which was the reason aluminum was being considered in the first place.) But yes, the metal was still considered exotic and fairly scarce. Just not valuable-as-gold exotic and scarce.

    On a side note, when I searched for corroboration to the above, I found an interesting quote that may help explain why the unique 1855 Seated Half Dollar in aluminum was struck. The coin has always been a bit of a mystery, given that it is the only aluminum pattern struck before 1867.

    "in 1854, Henri Sainte-Claire Deville developed a way of producing the metal on a much larger scale with the use of sodium, allowing, for the first time in history, kilograms of the metal to be produced at a time. For comparisons sake, it had taken Wöhler years to produce the same amount of aluminium Deville could produce in a single day.

    A year later, in 1855, 12 small ingots of aluminium were displayed at the “Exposition Universelle” a huge French exhibition organised at the bequest of French emperor Napoleon III. Almost immediately after the exhibition, demand for this magical metal sky-rocketed. "

    It's not hard to imagine that the coin was either struck for exhibition there, or was struck as a direct result of someone's visit there.

    Before 1884, Aluminum was in the $500/lb range. Not as expensive as gold, but much more than silver. There was no way that the use of this metal for coinage would have been considered in 1868, or 1878, or even 1888. Maybe in the 20th century, but not before.

    thefinn
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mint officers recognized that aluminum was abundant but very difficult to extract as pure metal. They also understood advances in practical metallurgy and over time it would become easier to purify and available at a lower price. Their real goal was not aluminum coins but use of aluminum in combination with silver, copper and other metals to make wear-resistant alloys for minor coins. Meaningful alloy experiments continued into the 1890s but nothing using aluminum was any better than the metals then in use. (Mint officers and technicians liked binary alloys because most were easy to reprocess within the mint.)

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,347 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2018 4:54PM

    according to Wikipedia, aluminum dropped to $40 a pound by 1859. Must have been even cheaper by 1867.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_aluminium

    By my rough calculations, aluminum would have to have been worth $17 per Troy pound for the 1867 nickels to contain five cents worth of aluminum.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,600 ✭✭✭✭✭

    1867 price in Europe - $15USD
    1872 price in USA - $9.00

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • BGBG Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:

    @7Jaguars said:
    Definitely not my series(s) in either original or aluminum format, but these seem to get flipped at auction with some frequency and that if one really wanted one that it comes available perhaps more frequently than one would expect. Maybe they are less impressive in hand over time and tendency to sell them back into the market??

    They’re certainly less impressive when removed from their case and slabbed, as has been the case with every set that has come to market since the TPGs came along.

    That is sacrilege!!

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A notation in the Chief Coiner's journal states that the mint bought 50 ounces of aluminum at a cost of $100, or $2 per ounce, from Victor Bishop. This would have been sufficient to make all 9 sets with a lot left over. Cases cost $36.

  • BackroadJunkieBackroadJunkie Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thefinn said:
    Much more expensive than gold at that time. Definitely rare and prized possessions.

    I believe that's the reason the Washington Monument is tipped in Aluminum...

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,600 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Please note that Roger's quote indicates they paid above market value if you look at my earlier reference to prices.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7Jaguars said:
    Please note that Roger's quote indicates they paid above market value if you look at my earlier reference to prices.

    Are the coins pure aluminum, or did the Mint perhaps request a specific alloy as they sometimes used on later legitimate patterns?

    Would love to know the specific alloy of the 1974 aluminum cents.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • dengadenga Posts: 922 ✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    A notation in the Chief Coiner's journal states that the mint bought 50 ounces of aluminum at a cost of $100, or $2 per ounce, from Victor Bishop. This would have been sufficient to make all 9 sets with a lot left over. Cases cost $36.

    Records indicate that at least 11 sets were made; the total was likely around 15.
    John Jay Knox received two sets and his cases were charged at $7 each. The $36
    quoted is probably the cost of several cases.

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting thread! I saw one of those Double Eagle patterns in Aluminum at the FUN show in 2009. It was very cool to see that. (it was slabbed)

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