Why would CAC refuse to sticker the 100 point scale...and how much influence do they have over PCGS?
Coinstartled
Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
This reference by Don Willis seemed to fall under the radar.
"""PCGS will not be converting to a 100 point grading scale. Additionally, John Albanese asked me to pass along that CAC would not sticker coins graded on a 100 point scale."""
0
Comments
No influence
Call and ask JA why they won’t sticker coins on a 100 point system.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Great news!
If NGC and PCGS aren't going to a 100 point grading scale then they wouldn't have anything to stick anyways.
Was that an independent decision or a mandate from Albanese?
"PCGS will not be converting to a 100 point grading scale. Additionally, John Albanese asked me to pass along that CAC would not sticker coins graded on a 100 point scale."
The use of additionally leads me to believe PCGS.
Because the 100 point grading scale is STUPID and both PCGS and CAC are smart enough to recognize this.
Done and done. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
Did JA volunteer that or did PCGS really ask him that question?
We will likely never know. Seems that the animosity between the two entities has softened.
Kind of leaves the PCGS collector in limbo as half of their better coins are questioned as inferior by JA's refusal to publish the failures which would vindicate the non submitted.
Maybe he thinks it’s just plain stupid too.
EAC 6024
Because they said so and none.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Probably because it would be a giant PITA to learn and not worth the huge influx of re-stickers that would flood in.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Here we go again... Er ah we have been down this road many times. It has been EXPLAINED why CAC can't and won't publish the failures..................................
Isn't the whole point of CAC to basically replicate a 100 point grading scale in principle by expanding the Sheldon scale by a factor or three? A PCGS or NGC MS 65 in the lower third does not get a sticker. One in the middle gets a green bean while one in the upper third merits a gold sticker. Same thing for each additional grade.
I agree with what youre saying, but I dont think gold = upper 3rd. It's next grade 2nd and 3rd green (and maybe beyond, who knows since theres no official stated definition)
^^^^ This @northcoin.
Because they are all strong for the grade?
Thanks for the caps on "explained" but my eyes are not shot yet.
CAC has certainly been well discussed on this forum. A decade ago it was forbidden here and now CAC is being mentioned by Mr. Willis as if they may have some input into PCGS decision making. If a cozy relationship now exists between the premier grader and the fellow that grades the grader, transparency is even more critical.
I was evaluating a number of coins at Great Collections on Sunday as I often do. One coin carried a gold CAC sticker and a similar coin which may have well been from the same consignor carried no sticker. As a bidder you have to guess did it fail or was it submitted. Sadly the safer option is to assume that each coin over say $700 was a fail. Is that healthy for an already shaken coin market?
No.
As I understand it, a gold sticker means that the coin would receive a green or better sticker if it were in a holder with a point higher grade.
But think of the litigation it would generate if CAC published its rejection list...
Pardon me.....this is way too heavy of discussion for me..
Then just publish a "submitted" list.
Many folks have been in the game longer than I have. In 16 years though it seems that trouble starts when there is the opportunity to get something for nothing...or almost nothing. The massive resubmissions for upgrade diluted populations and caused categories such a top graded Washington's to drop 75%.
Now for $13 you send your coin off for a sticker. Positive result and your coin is worth 15-20% more (Gold is a lottery hit). If it fails, you dummy up and pretend that it never happened.
The greater fool is often the fellow in the mirror.
The 100 point scale would entail an industry wide shake up - which would include - establishing new guidelines for grade demarcations, retraining all graders, a significant 'break in' period, and customer dissatisfaction with the new system (due to unfamiliarity and dissatisfaction with received grades - due to need for retraining the customer base). I can clearly understand the aversion to such a change. Cheers, RickO
Interesting points made. I'm glad they are not changing it.
My YouTube Channel
How is a "submitted" list any different than a "failed" list? If a coin doesn't show as passed and it's on the submitted list then it's a fail. Don't let CAC make your decisions for you, if you like a coin for the grade then buy it, of not then don't.
Collector, occasional seller
I would argue that all grading standards (coins or otherwise) are arbitrary and based on random historic events. I think most people will agree that 0-70 is an odd scale in a base-10 world, but it's the standard we have all known in our lifetimes. To change to a different scale would, at a minimum, require massive amounts of universal retraining for an industry I liken to "herding cats." There is almost no way this would go over well, and if I can take an educated guess, JA is simply at face value that he doesn't have the experience of a 0-100 scale to sticker coins. How could anyone commit to that up front?
Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com)
PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
You'd have to be an idiot not to cross the submitted list against the CAC certified list to end up with the rejected list they don't want to publish.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Exactly.
im wondering that if they did do the 100 point system how many would send in what they already have for the 100 point system. it sounds to me like that would be to over whelming to get into. jmo & fwiw
I certainly wouldn't send in for regrade anything I already have especially the old holders!
My YouTube Channel
You have stated a number of times that you don't need CAC to tell you what is a high end coin. Why do you care whether or not you know whether a coin was submitted to CAC if this is how you feel?
CAC proclaims themselves to be experts at evaluating coins on the historical 70 point scale. It would be natural that their initial reaction would be that they could not evaluate coins on a new, hypothetical and unspecified 100 point scale. If they wanted to, they could presumably adapt.
What a strange thread. The premise that our hosts decided against changing to a 100-pt system at the suggestion or insistence of those at CAC is ridiculous. The most likely explanation is that they looked at the issue and arrived at the same conclusion that most other people do.
Yikes, it's up to $14.50 Who says crime doesn't pay?
I don't think Mark Salzberg is part of the conspiracy, but I am
Anyone that buys a stickered or non-stickered coin over $700 with only an online picture is taking a risk. You should have eyes on it in hand or have a return policy that allows you to view in hand before making a decision. Either you or someone you trust. For GC, you can ask Ian. So if one follows this simple rule - view in hand and evaluate, you would feel more confident of your purchases no matter what CAC thinks.
CAC along with the others are opinions-though I do value their expertise-and I use them as tools and guides in a possible purchase. There are a lot of nice, 'unstickered' coins out there.
r you have to guess did it fail or was it submitted. Sadly the safer option is to assume that each coin over say $700 was a fail. Is that healthy for an already shaken coin market?
There is a sight unseen price. There is little risk in buying sight unseen at the right price.
I bid on hundreds of coins every week. Most of them involve a quick glance at the slab just to make sure the grade matches the title. I barely look at the coin other than that.
I resell all of those coins for a profit.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.