100 Point Grading

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DonWillis
DonWillis Posts: 961 ✭✭✭
edited October 23, 2018 4:24PM in U.S. Coin Forum

There has been some recent discussion about a 100 point grading scale. This is not a new idea. PCGS investigated the 100 point scale several years ago. We decided that it would be too disruptive to implement and in the end would not help collectors in any meaningful way. We have more meaningful ways of growing our business other than forcing our customers to resubmit their coins to be graded on a 100 point scale. Yes, in China there is a state run grading service that uses the 100 point scale. To my knowledge this has made little or no difference in helping buyers understand condition. The vast majority of graded coins sold in China, and around the world, use the Sheldon scale of 1-70.

PCGS introduced Plus (+) grading in 2010. This added 12 grades to our grading scale – (XF45 – MS68, excluding MS60 & MS61). The charts and comparisons that I have seen contain a lot of bad information. You can find an accurate list of the grades that PCGS uses on the PCGS website.

PCGS will not be converting to a 100 point grading scale. Additionally, John Albanese asked me to pass along that CAC would not sticker coins graded on a 100 point scale.

I’ve known Ron Guth for many years. I like and respect him. It’s always interesting to revisit old ideas and look at them in a new light. However, it remains our opinion that the 100 point grading scale would be too disruptive to implement and would not add any substantial value.

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Comments

  • CCDollar
    CCDollar Posts: 771 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Nice Information...Thank You...

    CC

    Nickel Triumph...My Led Zepps
  • Smudge
    Smudge Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thank you. That is good news indeed.

  • EagleEye
    EagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I agree, whats the point!

    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
  • Stuart
    Stuart Posts: 9,831 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2018 10:09AM
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    Don, Thanks very much for your informative, helpful and timely post! :smiley:


    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • bugbit
    bugbit Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
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    I'd consider that a momentum killer for sure! A great explanation that should calm some nerves.

  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    We agree. We made that decision at ANACS in 1979.
    Tom DeLorey

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • DIMEMAN
    DIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thanks Mr. Willis. I only hope your view on this stays the same as time goes by,

  • ms70
    ms70 Posts: 13,958 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Rumors stomped dead on a Sunday.

    Things are better already at PCGS!

  • jedm
    jedm Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thanks for your timely reply!

  • Colonialcoin
    Colonialcoin Posts: 925 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thank you!!

  • ACop
    ACop Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Now we know why someone was fired?

  • logger7
    logger7 Posts: 9,873 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thanks for your overview of the issue!

  • BryceM
    BryceM Posts: 11,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Great info! Thanks for the clarification.

    100-pt scale......... momentum gone. :)

  • bidask
    bidask Posts: 14,057 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Makes me better knowing this policy of PCGS

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • ACop
    ACop Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2018 2:00PM
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    Good decision to favor collectors but if you guys change your mind, please do so before my CLCT options expire.

  • topstuf
    topstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I give this thread a full 100 POINTS !!

    Do NOT hit me. :D

  • Onastone
    Onastone Posts: 4,420 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @topstuf said:
    I give this thread a full 100 POINTS !!

    C'mon topstuf......haven't you learned anything????? This thread deserves a pure 70 grade with a shiny CAC sticker!!!!!

  • topstuf
    topstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @topstuf said:
    I give this thread a full 100 POINTS !!

    Do NOT hit me. :D

    Oh, and THANK YOU for clarifying company position.
    NOTHING is worse than uncertainty.

    Good decision. :)

  • CCGGG
    CCGGG Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2018 2:42PM
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    Renews my faith in PCGS (and CAC). Thanks for the information!

  • ParlousJoe
    ParlousJoe Posts: 451 ✭✭✭
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    Again, thank you for letting us know this DW, it's greatly appreciated!

  • Coinstartled
    Coinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    ""PCGS will not be converting to a 100 point grading scale. Additionally, John Albanese asked me to pass along that CAC would not sticker coins graded on a 100 point scale.""

    That is reason enough to do it!

  • leothelyon
    leothelyon Posts: 8,568 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2018 3:33PM
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    Perhaps submissions will pick up now that everyone knows there will be no 100 scale grade. This should make headline news in our periodicals.

    Leo :)

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • santinidollar
    santinidollar Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thank you for talking with us.

  • dpoole
    dpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Nothing beats transparency.


    Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...



  • ECHOES
    ECHOES Posts: 2,974 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thank you very much for the information! :#

    ~HABE FIDUCIAM IN DOMINO III V VI / III XVI~
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  • jesbroken
    jesbroken Posts: 11,253 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thanks for this announcement. I am in total agreement.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • Goldminers
    Goldminers Posts: 4,414 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2018 6:54PM
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    Thanks for the detailed information and post. This is good news as it keeps the important historical grading continuity and does not make anything obsolete in any way. Hopefully the press will report this side of the story, perhaps properly edited by PCGS for accuracy?

    Thanks

    My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set

  • ReadyFireAim
    ReadyFireAim Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    This is good news.

    My Saint Set

  • Paradisefound
    Paradisefound Posts: 8,623 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thank you; I am relieved and best wishes toward the new horizon!

  • jmski52
    jmski52 Posts: 24,011 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Common sense prevails. Thanks for the timely information.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • asheland
    asheland Posts: 24,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thank you for letting us know!

    My YouTube Channel

  • metalmeister
    metalmeister Posts: 4,633 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I am all for tradition. Thank you!

    email: ccacollectibles@yahoo.com

    100% Positive BST transactions
  • CommemKing
    CommemKing Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Bravo!

  • TwoSides2aCoin
    TwoSides2aCoin Posts: 45,223 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Well done, Sheldon.

  • Swampboy
    Swampboy Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Good news

    Thanks @DonWillis for this clarification

    "Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso

  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I'm glad to read the present system stays! That makes my prediction B) of the future wrong.

  • au58
    au58 Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭
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    It does not make any difference what the range of the scale is if the entire scale is not used.
    There are only about 30 grades used now on a 70 point scale.
    And cramming all mint state grades into the top 11 grades (60 through 70) on the scale creates another set of issues, evidenced by the need to then add the "+" designation to coins that are better than one number but not good enough to make the next number.

  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70 equals 11 grade points.
    60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 100 equals only 9 grade points unless you use everything in between, which would balloon it up to 41 grade points, which is unworkable.

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • Timbuk3
    Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thank you for the heads-up !!! :)

    Timbuk3
  • jt88
    jt88 Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Good to hear that. Chinese grading company is a joke. Chinese graded coin are Huge discount to PCGS or even NGC. I would not touch any coin that is graded by Chinese company. I will buy NGC graded coin with discount only.

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thank you for the official stance on this issue. Cheers, RickO

  • johnny9434
    johnny9434 Posts: 34,117 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    thats good info to know and glad to hear it here

  • golden
    golden Posts: 10,538 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thanks for the information.

  • ctf_error_coins
    ctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 25, 2018 3:15PM
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    Just for fun, how about this ...

    70 point grading scale as to the coin grade.

    100 point scale for Eye Appeal only.

    Ex. PCGS MS66 EA97 for great eye appeal and conversely you could get a PCGS MS66 EA 35 for an ugly high-grade coin.

    No need for stickers and the buyer know what they are getting.

  • Onastone
    Onastone Posts: 4,420 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @ErrorsOnCoins said:
    Just for fun, how about this ...

    70 point grading scale as to the coin grade.

    100 point scale for Eye Appeal only.

    Nooooooo, not fun.

    @au58 said:
    It does not make any difference what the range of the scale is if the entire scale is not used.
    There are only about 30 grades used now on a 70 point scale.
    And cramming all mint state grades into the top 11 grades (60 through 70) on the scale creates another set of issues, evidenced by the need to then add the "+" designation to coins that are better than one number but not good enough to make the next number.

    I agree with this, it always seemed to me that the scale isn't fully utilized.

  • segoja
    segoja Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭✭
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    Great News Don!

    JMSCoins Website Link


    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

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  • Paradisefound
    Paradisefound Posts: 8,623 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Glad we stay in the current system :)

  • RB1026
    RB1026 Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭✭
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    Very glad to hear this. Our hobby has a tough enough time attracting young collectors without adding the distraction of an unnecessary and confusing competing set of grading standards, imo. From PO1 to MS70, we all know what the grades mean. No need to reinvent the wheel. Thank you to for declaring the official PCGS position to the hobby. You and Mr. Albanese are market leaders and where you go, the hobby follows. Well done.

  • 53BKid
    53BKid Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭
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    The existing 70 point scale has worked fine for decades.
    Disruption will foster bad will.

    HAPPY COLLECTING!!!
  • jerseycat101
    jerseycat101 Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I think there are ways for PCGS to drum up repeat business without resorting to a 100 point scale.

    For example, they can introduce a star attribute for superiorly toned coins.

    They could reintroduce multi-coin holders.

This discussion has been closed.

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