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Coin World reports possible 2020 Gold (not golden) Sacabuck plus other 2020 US Mint products...

BackroadJunkieBackroadJunkie Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited November 2, 2018 10:57PM in U.S. Coin Forum

(Note: Thread title changed to reflect CY 2020, not 2019...)

Oh boy!

Coin World reports:

Calendar year 2019 is shaping up to be an exciting year for numismatic products from the United States Mint, including the possibility of a Sacagawea gold dollar to mark the series’ 10th anniversary.

coinworld:Gold Sacagawea dollar is a strong possibility in 2019

Really? Anyone else excited about a 22k or 24k Sacabuck for the 10th anniversary of the coin?

Also being reported is a Maple Leaf/Libertad/ASE set, perhaps in a special finish, and a presidential medal/intaglio set (joint venture with the BEP).

Anyone remember the presidential signature sets?

coinupdate:Presidential Dollar Historical Signature Sets

I have all eight of these someplace. They actually look pretty cool...

Comments

  • BackroadJunkieBackroadJunkie Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 15, 2018 6:19AM

    The way they're describing the 2000W, the article is probably supposed to say the 20th anniversary. (And 2019 would be the 20th anniversary.

    @GRANDAM said:
    OK, what am I missing here?

    Sacagawea Dollars started in 2000, this is 2018. That is 18 years.

    18 years, but the 19th issue of the coin. 2019 would be the 20th issue of the sacabuck.

    (If you can find it, see the complaints about the 20th ASE set issued in 2006. It was actually the 21st release of the coin.)

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Mint Director had some 2000-dated Sacagaweas struck in gold in 1999. See www.smalldollars.com

    As I recall it went rather badly for him, since the striking was not authorized by Congress.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Can we get a proof gold one with a struck in retained plastic in the shape of a flower?

  • GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,353 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I want mine flown to the moon and back.

    GrandAm :)
  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Be careful with that salt air, seriously.

  • GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,353 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BackroadJunkie said:
    (If you can find it, see the complaints about the 20th ASE set issued in 2006. It was actually the 21st release of the coin.)

    Yes, I was here then and remember this.

    GrandAm :)
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,297 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've always liked the Sacagawea Dollar design, and I'm interested to see what they do. In their zeal to milk collectors as much as possible, there's a good chance that the Mint will screw it up.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I handled my first Sacajawea dollar in 1999, and own one struck in 1999, so what anniversary is this?

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,637 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    I handled my first Sacajawea dollar in 1999, and own one struck in 1999, so what anniversary is this?

    A lot of people did, then the novelty wore off when 10 quadrillion identical one were made in 2000, so they spent their Cheerios prizes because they were no longer "special". :o:s:'(

    The pack rats who kept their Cheerios dollars got the last laugh....

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,637 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I believe the couple handfuls of gold 2000 Sacs were of questionable status because Congress never authorized them. I also believe that Congress does have some latitude with gold now (not sure when hat was granted) but maybe they need to stick with certain weights of bullion coins?

    So, will a gold Sac be authorized, or will it be minted under existing authority as was used for the dime/quarter/half gold versions from a couple years ago?

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @topstuf that 02 is a good looking coin. Love the crust.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Let me be the first to start a b.s. rumor that: “OMG! The U.S. Mint accidentally released some real gold Sackungowa dollars along with the golden ones! Squeeeee!”

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,578 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If it is 22k and a half ounce gold proof like a 1/2 gold eagle 27mm, (The Sac is 26.49 mm), it might be Ok.

    I really wish more new "coins" being minted would be put in circulation and not sit in display boxes or safes.

    How about some circulated actual coin silver "dollars" again, maybe Liberty Seated Dollar obverses or something else interesting like the Chiefs above, with say $10 legal tender and millions will start collecting again, and yes, saving some too, like the Constitution envisioned.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,297 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2018 6:37AM

    Let me be the first to start a b.s. rumor that: “OMG! The U.S. Mint accidentally released some real gold Sackungowa dollars along with the golden ones! Squeeeee!”

    That would be a fun fiasco - if the Mint "accidently" released a few salted rolls of gold Sacs into the banking system along with the regular distribution. I guess that would only work if Sacs actually circulated, which makes the following comment more relevant:

    How about some circulated actual coin silver "dollars" again, maybe Liberty Seated Dollar obverses or something else interesting like the Chiefs above, with say $10 legal tender and millions will start collecting again, and yes, saving some too, like the Constitution envisioned.

    I couldn't agree more! At some point, we can only hope that there might be a general recognition that the money supply should be based on a stable foundation such as precious metals instead of an unsustainable credit ponzi, as issued by gov.com

    <POP!> Was I dreaming again?

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    I handled my first Sacajawea dollar in 1999, and own one struck in 1999, so what anniversary is this?

    A lot of people did, then the novelty wore off when 10 quadrillion identical one were made in 2000, so they spent their Cheerios prizes because they were no longer "special". :o:s:'(

    The pack rats who kept their Cheerios dollars got the last laugh....

    Not many people handled one in 1999. I saw one at a press conference in October.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,637 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2018 9:39AM

    Oh, i see. First ones minted in late1999, released in 2000....

  • BackroadJunkieBackroadJunkie Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    I believe the couple handfuls of gold 2000 Sacs were of questionable status because Congress never authorized them. I also believe that Congress does have some latitude with gold now (not sure when hat was granted) but maybe they need to stick with certain weights of bullion coins?

    I haven't looked into the specifics (because, I'm not that interested, and I don't want to look it up :D ), but Diehl's problem was (probably) he struck coins in gold that were identical to a coin already legislated to be stuck in brass/manganese.

    If he had changed the design (e.g. given the coin a par value of $25) and not used the dies for the brass buck, it might have been okay. But then it never would have been done to strike a couple dozen coins.

    So, will a gold Sac be authorized, or will it be minted under existing authority as was used for the dime/quarter/half gold versions from a couple years ago?

    By legislation, the US Mint can make a gold coin in any weight/design it wants, so long as they can get SecTreas to sign off on it. (For instance, the last American Liberty minted in 1ozt and 1/10th ozt.)

    That said, if a Sacagold (<-- new word) is stuck next year, it will be on existing fractional ASE/Buffalo plachets to save money. An AGE blank for 22k, a Buff blank for a 24k strike.

  • BackroadJunkieBackroadJunkie Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2018 10:59PM

    @CaptHenway said:
    Let me be the first to start a b.s. rumor that: “OMG! The U.S. Mint accidentally released some real gold Sackungowa dollars along with the golden ones! Squeeeee!”

    Only if a tornado picks up West Point and drops it in Philly or Denver.... :D

    @CaptHenway said:
    I handled my first Sacajawea dollar in 1999, and own one struck in 1999, so what anniversary is this?

    Annnnd... What's the date on the coin?

    (Edit to add the second question...)

  • BackroadJunkieBackroadJunkie Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers said:
    If it is 22k and a half ounce gold proof like a 1/2 gold eagle 27mm, (The Sac is 26.49 mm), it might be Ok.

    There are also 24k 1/2 ozt buff blanks. Even if the Mint doesn't strike 24k fractionals, doesn't mean they can't source the plachets. See the 100th anniversary WLH gold commems released a couple of years ago.

    I really wish more new "coins" being minted would be put in circulation and not sit in display boxes or safes.

    Happens all the time. the FSQ's, the ATB's, the prezibucks and the new Innobucks.

    You should really be careful what you ask for. You might get it.

    How about some circulated actual coin silver "dollars" again, maybe Liberty Seated Dollar obverses or something else interesting like the Chiefs above, with say $10 legal tender and millions will start collecting again, and yes, saving some too, like the Constitution envisioned.

    That would require an Act of Congress. Who gave us the FSQ's, the ATB's, the prezibucks (and the first spouse series) and the Innobucks. Sure you still want that?

    Really, you need to read the law, and what it allows the Mint to do.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BackroadJunkie said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    Let me be the first to start a b.s. rumor that: “OMG! The U.S. Mint accidentally released some real gold Sackungowa dollars along with the golden ones! Squeeeee!”

    Only if a tornado picks up West Point and drops it in Philly or Denver.... :D

    @CaptHenway said:
    I handled my first Sacajawea dollar in 1999, and own one struck in 1999, so what anniversary is this?

    Annnnd... What's the date on the coin?

    (Edit to add the second question...)

    The coin I handled in October of 1999 was dated 2000-P. I happened to study the tail feathers and count them, and then when the regular coins came out at the end of January I noticed that they had been changed, and I wrote about it in COINage. Later I wrote that the earlier reverse version might have also been used in the Cheerios-packaged dollars, and it was soon confirmed.

    TD

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,578 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2018 6:06PM

    @BackroadJunkie said:
    That would require an Act of Congress. Who gave us the FSQ's, the ATB's, the prezibucks (and the first spouse series) and the Innobucks. Sure you still want that?

    Really, you need to read the law, and what it allows the Mint to do.

    I am fully aware that Congress and the administration were responsible for doing away with silver coins in 1964, and they are responsible for what the Treasury/Mint can do going forward. I agree some of the approved coin Bills recently are quite PC, and many are not very popular, but some members in Congress might consider getting back to what the founding fathers wanted for coinage, at least in a small way with some circulated silver coins.

    The President wants the Treasury to print money to pay off the debt. Remember the talk of a trillion dollar Platinum coin back in 2012? There will be new debt ceiling talks soon, if someone in Congress proposes a Trillion dollar coin with Trump on the obverse, and MAGA on the reverse, at least one person in the White House will be tweeting favorably about it. ;)

    Edited to add, yes now there is a law that says no living people on coins until 2 years after their death, but laws can be changed and there have been 6 different living people on US coins in the past.

  • FullStrikeFullStrike Posts: 4,353 ✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2018 2:05PM

    Personally I think they need to issue something really ( but realistically ) off the wall, like a $100 Million , $500 Million , maybe a $1 Billion Coin. Then maybe the Billionairs would carry them as Challenge Coins. Strike them with different designs, maybe someone will start a Registry Race.

    🤥

  • BackroadJunkieBackroadJunkie Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers said:

    @BackroadJunkie said:
    That would require an Act of Congress. Who gave us the FSQ's, the ATB's, the prezibucks (and the first spouse series) and the Innobucks. Sure you still want that?

    Really, you need to read the law, and what it allows the Mint to do.

    I am fully aware that Congress and the administration were responsible for doing away with silver coins in 1964, and they are responsible for what the Treasury/Mint can do going forward. I agree some of the approved coin Bills recently are quite PC, and many are not very popular, but some members in Congress might consider getting back to what the founding fathers wanted for coinage, at least in a small way with some circulated silver coins.

    Actually, 1964 has nothing to do with it. These laws existed long before the change to clad. (Dating back to the 1800's.)

    Here's a link to what the US Mint is currently allowed to do:
    31 U.S. Code § 5111 - Minting and issuing coins, medals, and numismatic items

    Here's a link to the coinage the Mint is allowed to strike:
    31 U.S. Code § 5112 - Denominations, specifications, and design of coins

    Note the first line:

    The Secretary of the Treasury may mint and issue only the following coins:

    The Mint is hamstrung under these laws. And any hope congress will actually change our coinage is tilting at windmills... :)

    The best congress seems to be able to do these days is commemorative coins. Look at how well those have turned out lately... :(

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,578 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2018 4:34PM

    I am confused by the dating back to the 1800's comment.

    The 31 U.S. Code § 5112 - Denominations, specifications, and design of coins that I look up, says effective Jan. 7, 2011 and just under that it references the "Short Title" is Gold Bullion Coin Act of 1985 Liberty Coin Act.

    The top of the page says United States Code, 2006 Edition, Supplement 4, Title 31 - MONEY AND FINANCE.

    It seems to me laws, bills, and codes have changed a lot since the 1800's?

    I guess the Mint surveys need to be forwarded to Congress, and agree not much happening there.

    In that case, I guess I don't want to worry about what the Mint can or can't do, as long as it doesn't cost taxpayer money to fund it. No one is forcing me to like, or buy anything that they sell. However, I doubt that minting 8.6 billion Lincoln cents in 2017 was really cost effective...or necessary to meet demand. LOL

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